Jay-Z / Nas hip-hop throw down? & other throw-downs?

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Just got this link from another mailing list. I'll post the text of the article here, too - it's pretty brief, and Nas actually comes up with some fine rhymes (especially the Sisqo reference - nice!):

Nas ripped Jay-Z and the ROC on Funkmaster Flex's show yesterday. Here are a few lines: "Rip the Freeway shoot thru Memphis with money bags / Stop in Philly order cheese steaks and eat Beans fast/ Bring it back up top remove the fake king of New York / you show off / I count dough off when you sampled my voice / I knew you before you used to rap like the Fu-Schnickens / Nas designed ya blueprint; who you kidding/ Is he H to the izzO M to the izzO/ fa shizzzle you phony rapping version of Sisqo / And as for certain you cloned me / ya wack clothesline i rather Sean John bought me with ya fake azz rhymes & ol 'times that neva took place you liar / Un was ya first courtcase, you have no priors / you master fabricated stories in streets & sound lick / have u surrounded with you and them faggots u down with / while they ride Nas trying boost they careers / they corny as Corn-mega all u hip hop queers."

Anyone w/ more info on this mini-feud? (Damn, I think I've been misspelling "feud" all the live-long day!) And how about a li'l discussion re: various hip-hop feuds from the past - the Roxxanne conflict, LL / Kool Moe, Canibus & Wyclef / LL, ad infinitum, etc? Ethan, you up yet?

-- David Raposa (daver@popshots.org), August 02, 2001


Damn. He said Fu-Schnickens.

-- Andy (andkel@allmusic.com), August 02, 2001.

That's quite cutting actually. Jay-Z must have thought about the "H to the izzo, M to the izzo" line when he wrote that track. I'd like to see it develop between these two but not in a petty pistol-whipping kind of way. A lot of recent feuds have been a bit disappointing because of the real threat of violence. The 'Bus/LL battle produced a few good rhymes and it was worth it for "Yo, this is Mike Tyson kicking it with the Cannabis [sic] man..."

Oh, and he's right about Roc-A-Wear.

-- Greg (
scarth33@btinternet.com), August 02, 2001.

Hey, look, I'm shit at links. Fucking non-editing motherfucker.

-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), August 02, 2001.

Can someone give my wack ass a brief debriefing about the etymological origins of "H to the Izzo / M to the Izzo"? Damn this hip-hop cant...

-- David Raposa (daver@popshots.org), August 02, 2001.

H-O-M-O, derived from Jay-Z's "H to the izzO, V to the izzAy" (H-O-V-A, short for Jay-hova) . If this is what it takes to wake Nas back up, I'm all for it, though I don't see Jay-Z as much of a battle rapper myself. What started this beef though?

-- Kris (branch_rickey@hotmail.com), August 02, 2001.

Jadakiss doesn't like Jay-Z either - at the Crown Heights block party this spring he did a bit of "throw ya hands up" but sang the chorus "fuck that, put ya hands down" -- why does Jay-Z inspire this?

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), August 02, 2001.

I agree with Kris that this could be an excellent opportunity for Nas to regain the status of his old glories. He is the most fallen-off rapper in hip-hop history, possibly, while Jay-Z's last couple of albums were fantastic. Nas is one of the few out there who has what it takes to take on Jay-Z. Let's see him deliver. What's the origin of this particular beef, though?

-- JoB (jobwit@vpro.nl), August 02, 2001.

I think the whole thing started when Memphis Bleek said that Nas fell of after the success of Illmatic, since then a few NY hip hoppers (including the likes of Jadakiss, Nas & Prodigy) have hated on the ROC. I agree he isn't a battle rapper, however, he's proved time and time again that he has the credentials to reckoned as one of the (if not the) greatest lyricists of all

-- Paul (peeyem2k@yahoo.co.uk), August 25, 2001.

They're all just hating because their shit ain't doing as well as Jay- Z's, and that's all there is to that. He's fantastic, his albums are all solid as fuck, he's only made a couple missteps and he's held in wicked high regard, so of course he's going to inspire shit, no matter what the backstory is. But no, he's not much of a battle rapper at all. If Nas wants to bust on him, he better come up with a new single actually as good as the song he's ripping on, quite frankly.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), August 25, 2001.

i just think nas, is tryin ta cum back up coz jay-z bein 1 of the most successful in such a short period. i dont think jigga is a thug/battler/hater n probably will just put in a few sly words about nas. but overall its just nas tryin ta start some shit up 4 no reason because people are forgettin his fake ass so he just tryin to get in tha lime light again. n can i also state puff daddy/diddy/fool/asshole/fake-ass-wannabe is just the biggest punk walkin god's green earth n i hope suge will give him a good ass wuppin.

-- the tsui (syetsui@hotmail.com), August 25, 2001.

With Biggie gone, lyrically Nas and Jay-Z r the best out. Jada is a close third. Jigga's on top so 4 Nas to get back into the game he must go at Jigga. Same 4 Kiss. If he wants to be on top he has to go at the roc. But goin at Beans was a mistake. Did yall hear Beanies come back on the Empire Strikes back!!!!!. Oh, If Jay-z doesn't slam Nas on a track, dont worry, Beans WILL!!! The feud sprang because Nas thinks that Jigga has been saying some untrue stuff in his rhymes.Thats all. Holla. - Chris AK

-- C-dot (Nolieshere44@aol.com), August 25, 2001.

i concur, beanie is devastatingly fucking dope. i think he could take on nas solo, and fuck, that's something.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), August 25, 2001.

Yo After 2pac comes BIG then probably Jay-Z as the most sucessful rapper of all time. 2pac Makaveli "the greatest of all time" would take all of the fags out even if they put in a combined effort

-- Ak (adkhan99@hotmail.com), August 26, 2001.

greg told me this story and since he's not here right now i'll quickly recall it;

SCENE: --greg and friend in club that is playing ante up remix--

that chick who fucked pun: '...wish i could bring pun back / bitch run that etc etc'

greg: 'if you could bring back any rapper, who would you?'

friend: 'tupac, certainly...'

greg: '!!!!'

friend: '...so everyone now could see how shit he really was'


sorry for the poor recollection, but it's like, the best summation of the '2pac' phenomenon i can think of right now. he was a wack wack motherfucker.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), August 27, 2001.

first of all Nas is nice, dont get me wrong, but he cant fuck wit Hova, not now anyway. Jay-z has made so many hits in the last three years its ridiculous and honestly that Queensbridge and "I AM", them shits were WEAK! Nas you can do better, come on dog! OH yeah i dont think Jada wanna fuck wit Beans cause Siegal aint nuthin but the TRUTH! Did yall that shit on EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, OH my God! Kiss tried to come back on this Clue shit but I think Beanie won round 1 of this battle. Beans said ''I'ma sun Kiss like soda'' ''When I see you, you gon' really wish you knocked yourself out! Siegal headphones is on fire this time around!

-- stephon meadors (smead517@wssu.edu), August 27, 2001.

"i'ma son 'kiss like soda". damn.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), August 27, 2001.

They're all just hating because their shit ain't doing as well / as Jay- Z's, and that's all there is to that. / He's fantastic, his albums are all solid as fuck / he's only made a couple missteps / and he's held in wicked high regard, so / of course he's going to inspire shit / no matter what the backstory is.

Slang that shit up and Ally's a rapper.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), August 27, 2001.

Nah its all about how Hova has been claiming that he is the best and is trying to take over the reins of BIG. And Nas just thought that Hova was trying to ride off BIGS fame. Calling himself the King of New York, which is what BIG called himself. In my opinion J. is right at this time he is the best(AT THIS TIME!), but with Stillmatic coming that may change soon.


-- 3000 (ldc3000@bellsouth.net), August 27, 2001.

My rap name is The Hierophant. There will be an Isaac Hayes sample in my first single, the above referenced ode to my mentor, Jay-Hova. It will include a verse questioning why such a great man keeps insisting on picking ridiculous rap names that make even "The Hierophant" look sensible. I mean, honestly, first he was a Pokemon, now he's Jay- Hova. Really now.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), August 28, 2001.

i think Nas and Jay-z are just doing this whole thing to fatten up their pockets even more....as with Beans... i think nas'll rip him, maybe jada...on a good day..cuz he's solo album wasn't up to par..

-- riri racines (racines.r@buckcosultants.com), August 30, 2001.

Right now everyone is attackin the ROC. Queensbridge, RUFF RYDERS. . . NAS and Jadakiss in particular. Jigga is a fag. . . Bleek and Siegel are the only ones who can pull some sick rhymes. . .But they can't touch Nas. . .Nas is the lyrical poet. . . He never fell off and if you ask me . . . He's the KING OF NY after Big. As for Jadakiss. . . He's not as much as a veteran as NAS but he can tear Roc-A-Fella apart let alone Jay-z. NAS-STILLMATIC shuts Jay-Z down !

-- A. Betito (aidan1023@yahoo.com), August 30, 2001.

Then why is Jay-Z's new album so much better than anything Nas has ever done?

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), August 31, 2001.

J aint a battle rapper and even thoh nas aint been as succesful as Jay,at least he aint slid into some P-diddy money and glamour shit like J done.they cant f*c wit nas coz nas is a poet.

-- wizard (whitneym89@hotmail.com), August 31, 2001.

I think all this stupidness is getting out of hand. Now I've heard that not only jada, nas, and prodigy are hatin on jay, but fat joe joined in as well. All these cats just wanna use some fued to generate sales for themselves. Fat joe is straight wack, I repeat his sh*t "never" is gonna go platnum. and i kind of respect prodigy, but on his album he has a song sayin we goin diamond, all the albums he ever sold in his life could never put him even "close" to diamond. Also if you look at everyone who got beef with him they try to imitate his style. Look at all they albums Jay did the joint with ugk that was off the yalzabub, and all these niggas wanna do a joint with a down south rapper. Jay worked with neptunes before these cats now everyone wanna do it. Let's get one thing straight as far as respect and sales aint none of these dudes even close. the thing between him and prodigy started when prodigy in a magazine interview called him out sayin that when that sh*t was going down with 2pac jay aint say nothing. if you recall Big aint say anything either and most of the hate was directed at him, and he lost his life over that sh*t. I think everybody should just end the beef, if you got beef handle that sh*t with actions if you bout it. last but not least I heard a copy of the blueprint.....................when that sh*t drops..........prodigy,jadakiss,fate joe,nas, and whoever else is gonna be bumpin that sh*t in the small benz/ with small wheels/ small grill / hatin on his success.

-- Jules Winfield (citizenjames@yahoo.com), August 31, 2001.


-- AJ (DBD2150@AOL.COM), August 31, 2001.

i can't wait for the new album

-- gareth (gareth@norfolkwindmills.com), August 31, 2001.

Yo AJ..... where did you hear the song where Jigga rips Nas? What's it called?

-- KIKO (kiko_kure@hotmail.com), August 31, 2001.

Gareth: the album is fantastic, run to the store and buy it when it comes out. You won't be disappointed, it's the most consistent thing he's done in a long, long time. It's really, truly great, it's possibly the best thing I've heard all year (possibly because I'm allowing hysteria room - I've only listened to it 3 times).

Though I will note that the last album had some 11th hour switchups because of leaks, so if that happens again with this album could change my opinion, as it did on the last album...

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), August 31, 2001.

i have also had the pleasure of hearing Jay-z's new album in which he eats Nas and Prodigy for dinner. i don't have a track listing but it's the second song on the album, i believe it's called the "Originator" but i'm not sure. A lot has been said about this so called "Civil War", if its real or a scam to make money. i know this for sure, Nas and Prodigy have to answer, and not with a freestyle. They better put their brains together and come up with something real clever or they're gonna have to look for new careers. It would be ashamed if a plot to get money ends breaking someone. I just hope no one gets killed. R.I.P. Aaliyah

-- Keino Berry (thekid87@hotmail.com), August 31, 2001.

i still think mobb won the mobb deep/tupac beef, and i swear i'm not just saying that because i like them better.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), August 31, 2001.

I am a Jay Z fan to the graveyard and feel personaly offended by the fact that lesser mcs such as nas, prodigy ,fat joe, and jayo felony even think that there skills are anywhere close enough to fuck with the God

-- Dean Cloud (Deancloud@hotmail.com), September 01, 2001.

i don't think he's really sweating fat joe, dude.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), September 01, 2001.

Look you can only ride the success of an album for so long. Jay-Z's best album were Reasonable Doubt and Vol.1. This is because he took time to wrote lyrics, just listen to the lyrics in those albums compared to his later ones. Now it takes Jadakiss, Nas, and Mobb Deep to bring him back to his roots. Beats are good and nice, but lyrics is what hip hop and rap has always been about. Its what you say and how you say it, not who's beat you rhyme over. I speak of this as a rapper myself. You go to these talent showcases, especially in NJ and Philly, you will get booed off if you don't have tight lyrics. Jay-Z was in danger of selling out, in my opinion, he did what he said in his marcy to hollywood song. He got lazy and put his feet up and rode the fame, so niggas got on his shit. I'm here in Camden and most people are here are tried of Jay-Z and Beanie. I like Jay-Z and I have his new LP already...let's just say he ripped Nas and Prodigy on track 2. I have a question, what do yall think about Genovese's Fuck Y'all?

-- Ryan Groves (slimkid5@hotmail.com), September 01, 2001.

If anyone has heard the bootleg of the "BLUEPRINT" you will agree, JAY HOVA is holdin down hip hop. The 2nd cut, "the Takeover" is aimed squarely at Nas and Prodigy (Mobb Deep) and Jay fore blows like "I don't care if your name is Mobb Deep I hold triggfers to crews/ you little f#$k I got mone stacks bigger than you / when I was pusin weight, back in 88/ You was a ballereena, I got the pictures, I seen ya" He goes on Prodigy for afull 16 bars and then goes at Nas with line like; "So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong / you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song / And you aint get a coin, you was getting Fu#ked then / i know who I paid God, Searchlite publishing" Jay is really bringing it to NAS and Mobb Deep. I really can't see Nas or Prodigy seein him. Hova is on another level now, rap just seems too eay for him. Holla!

-- D. BLACK (BIGDAB471@aol.com), September 02, 2001.

damn. still not as hard as nas' first punch though.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), September 02, 2001.

I feel Jay-Z is the best rapper at the moment, going through his albums from Hard Knock life he has non stop hits be it thugged out shit or be it 'commerical', but if Jay-Z was to ever claim he's the best of all time then it is a diferent story because that crown is with Tupac shakur i love Biggie but Tupac for me is in front.

there is so much competition now with more money involved that no one wants to fall off their game and if you don't go platinum it is considered wack, plenty of artists and albums never go platinum but are the shit. Examples LOX we are the streets, Jay-Z first album, Canibus, Big L, list goes on. If the best was based on skill then i would like to have seen a Canibus V Big L battle

I just hope this stays lyrical and not physical

-- Leon Francis A.KA. Vindicater (leon_francis28@hotmail.com), September 03, 2001.

Yall hear that shit on the Blueprint..... The Jigga cut the fuck outta Nas.....its called "Takeover"....this jus proves that Jay-Z is the lyrical master of our time...excluding Eminem

-- AFRO pix (zxcasd@hotmail.com), September 03, 2001.

Jay-Z's the heir to Pac's crown, obviously. "The Blueprint" would be better if "Izzo", "Renegade" and the few tracks that don't fit in with the rest weren't on there. As an album it'd be much better if it was just one sound, because it's a fucking good sound when it's done right ("Heart Of The City", "Song Cry"). Yeah, and the Tip track's shit - Jay-Z doesn't love girls that much.

-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), September 03, 2001.

"There's only so long fake thugs can pretend."

-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), September 03, 2001.

This entire thing is over Jay-Z claiming to be the best, yet at the same time Nas claimes Jay-Z raps about situations that arent real and never happened. Nas is by far a better lyrsist. the only reason people like Jay so much is because he rhymes about money and girls which is what sells right now. There isnt anything wrong about that. Nas-better rhymes JayZ-better business

-- L.J. (liquifx@hotmail.com), September 03, 2001.

Nas no doubt is better than Jay-Z lyrically. Jay just has mad money now and is living off his fame of Reasonable Doubt and Vol. 2. If those albums weren't tight, he'd probably end up like marky mark making wack ass movie a.k.a planet of the apes, three kings and etc... Plus with all this beef Jay got with everybody, I wouldn't be surprised if he got murked(2Pac, Biggie, Big L, etc....)Nas4ever

-- T.K. EEk (eek1982@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

Lyric Value....Jay-Z: $7.00....Nas: $10.00....Biggie/2Pac: Priceless They both are ok except Nas has the only album between the two who had an album to get five mics from "the source". Plus Jay-Z is too commercial and is trying to do too much by toastng everybody at once. I hope no one gets the death penalty in this feud. Also to Jay-Z, Don't burn your bridges cause no one can save you if they can't cross to help you.

-- Drevon Dingshon (kevinpeytonjr@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

y'all cats are too hung up on sales dont you know that money and sex sells and jigga being business minded knows that.if you consider lirical prowess aint nobody takin out nas.the late great notorius big himself left the game and started talking about money and hoes.l aint say nas never did that but he just never completely sold out like jigga.nas is a rapper and nobody better than him at his game.if rich kids dont like his shit coz they aint relate to it,that dont mean he is wack.l was feelin nas when he does a song where he personifies a gun,and tells its history.even pac copied that when he does me and my girlfriend.

-- wizard (whitneym89@hotmail.com), September 04, 2001.

Jay-Z was in danger of going completely lazy with his last album, which wasn't even a Jay-Z album despite the tag, it would've been major improved with the complete lack of the Roc-A-Fella crew. But I don't see all you people claiming that Vol 2 and Vol 3 are lazy and/or sell out works. They're tight. Big Pimpin' and Can I Get A... are easily as tight as Ain't No Nigga; I think a lot of people like to romanticise the idea that Jay-Z is all about Reasonable Doubt and went to commercialized shit after that.

His new album is fucking sweet, though. It kicks it, total return to top of the game form. I gotta laugh about "Girls Girls Girls" though - what the fuck is next, "I'm Not Gay (Not That There's ANything Wrong With It)"?

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

1st and foremost about being the best Mc...B.I.G."FOREVER" and i think JAy-Z and PUff had that nigga set up cuz they were the most successful after his death Jay-Z blew up outta no where..after he sucked big dick so much...listen to "i know what girls like f/puff n lil kim"..puff says"mo money "NO" more problems after bigs death...what a coincidence..hmm..and Jay-z spittin on the city is mine is like he was waiting for that shit to happen to Big..anyways if yall listen to music its alot of subliminal shit in it..i cant xplain all my points but if i did yall will agree..but as far as battling..Nas do need to wake up he is the best lyricist next to EMinem those are the best cuz they are very versatile and thats what rap is all about..Jay-Z is pussy cuz he picked nas out the whole bunch cuz nas is pussy too why he didnt respond to DMX,Jada,Jayo felony,charlie baltimore and 50 cent..he too pussy..jay's song the TAKE OVER IS hard but when NAS come back HE COMIN HARD..so JAY FUCKED UP DROPPIN 1st...AND BEANIE BATTLE VERSE WAS LONG BUT NO HARDER THAN JADA's COMBACK ON THAT DISCO BEAT..BEANS WAS SPITTIN NONSENSE ON SOME BARS TRYNA STRETCH THE SONG..AND STYLES ATE JIGGA ASS ON FUNK FLEX..THATS THE NIGGA TO WATCH IN THE GAME ON THE LOW YA HEARD..THE GHOST"

-- Vashon Brown (puslovah@aol.com), September 04, 2001.

First of all i must say that, I have not been feeling Jigga Man since his 1st LP when he was know as Jay-Z. I must say That this album "the Blueprint is a classic! This is better than the his first effort to me. Jay-Z got lyrics and metaphors but all jokes aside Jay-Z can't see Nas. Nas and Jay-Z are on different levels. Jay-Z was on some on commerical shyt. Nas is a Street Poet he spit reality and that's what i like about Nas. I'm glad the ESCOBAR is dead and NAS is back to his illmatic and it was written days. To me to Selling units don't prove that you are a better rapper. Jay-Z can sell 30 millions album for all that i care, I know one thing for sure Jay-Z can't see GhostFace!!! Peace

-- Wise_Born (whitehead_jonathan@hotmail.com), September 04, 2001.

Selling units has nothing to do with anything, Jay-Z just is way less boring than Nas. Probably because he's gay, gay people are fantastic.

(yes, I am just posting shite now, what do you want to do about it? Step up.)

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

Me, I just like the new Jay-Z album besides it sounds like what happens when a man with more money than sense thinks he's god. Entertainment! As pure a cocaine delusion experience as you'll get in these sad times, and it's sickeningly pretty to boot.

-- Ned Raggett (ned@kuci.org), September 04, 2001.

The songs are all gorgeous, he's got the production of the gods, at the very least.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

Oh, and noteworthy news: The Blueprint has been pushed up yet another week to September 11th (from original date of September 25th) due to bootlegging. Hopefully this doesn't imply last minute switch outs like it did last time...

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.


-- Ha Ha Ha you'll never know (bakedx@hotmail.com), September 04, 2001.


-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), September 04, 2001.

Why can't threads about the Strokes and Atomic Kitten be more like this? Where are we going wrong?

Heard the single today at least - very good stuff. Very very good.

-- Tom (ebros@netcomuk.co.uk), September 04, 2001.

After listening to the BLUEPRINT (again and again!!!) I have decided that it is classic material. Yes Illmatic may be better a better ablum but Jay's new shit is classic ***** (five star) material. Check out "All I need" and "The RUler's Back" for examples. NAS 's biggest problem was getting involved in the playa shit. His last best joints were from "It was written" I know that Nas can spit, but is it tooooo late for him to catch up? Second, does anyone really think tat Jada, Jayo felony and Charlie (i'm only around b/c I fucked Biggie) Baltimore can really handle Jay??? I don;t think so! I think the Nas / Jay Z battle is the best thing for a watered down hip-hop nation. Maybe you younger cats will get the opportunity to get classic material from the top mc's like we did from the KRS v. Juice Crew battles.


-- D. BLACK (BIGDAB471@aol.com), September 04, 2001.

Why can't threads about the Strokes and Atomic Kitten be more like this?

First the Strokes and Atomic Kitten would have to be as entertaining as Jay-Z, see. ;-)

-- Ned Raggett (ned@kuci.org), September 04, 2001.

Well, if Atomic Kitten would just cooperate and have an old skool throwdown with All Saints, we could get somewhere.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 04, 2001.

yoyoyo, i wanted to let all you real ass loc'z , they still some of us ridin for pac and da outlawz...screw all dis commercial bull gon on rite now, if pac was here, he'd blow shit up. look man, i from kweenz i aint even liking dis shit , -SAPAVELLI DA DON SAP AL SAPONE!

-- sapavelli tha don (mydib925@aol.com), September 05, 2001.

Man listen R.O.C we running this rap shit Jay hova 6 albums Nas 4 Jay- Z first album 1996 Nas first album 1993

-- Stan Cunningham (suede07203@msn.com), September 05, 2001.

The Upper West Side has destroyed my brain, because I have no idea what those last two posts are on about.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 05, 2001.

If it's implying that Pac wasn't commercial and Jay Z's better than Nas because he's made more albums and shit then I don't understand it either.

-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), September 05, 2001.

Okay, so we got the same thing from it, I'm not just being a moron.

PS The Takeover is some fucking great shit, I can't stop listening to it.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 05, 2001.

This is for that idiot that said that 2Pac is the greatest of all time. How many records did Pac sell off his first two albums? How many did Biggie sell? Thank you! Don't compare all of 2Pac's albums to Biggie's 2.

-- Smokey (smokn29@nyc.com), September 05, 2001.

I don't know exactly why Nas is dissin Hov but I don't think he's hatin like dem other cats(Prodigy & Jay-O Felony). Dem cats ain't got shit, won't be shit. Nas does have something to prove. His first album is considered a classic by almost everyone but it didn't even go gold. After that he's been trying to flip his style to sell more records. What happened though, these fools were crazy tight. Jig was always shouting out Nas in his songs. "Niggas argue all day about who's the best MC, Biggie, Jay-Z or Nas" , "Tits firm like Nas, Nature, Fox and A-Z". It's crazy. "Some how the rap game reminds me of the crack game". Jay-Z does look like a prophet. He said in vol. 1 "Don't worry about Brooklyn I'll continue your fame...you held it down long enough, let me take those reigns". He's held it down like no other since Biggie left. In vol.2 he said "I'll sell mo records than Will Smith" Will was second to Hov. Everyone's talking about NYC best but no mention of DMX.

-- Smokey (Smokn29@nyc.com), September 05, 2001.

Does DMX ride a BMX?

-- DG (rgreenfield@btinternet.com), September 05, 2001.


-- (djtrigga@djcentral.com), September 05, 2001.

First of all to say Prodigy ain't got shit, Mobb Deep's Infamous album is considered just as classic as Illmatic. Check Shook Ones Pt 2. Anyway, Roc-A-Fella will get fucked six ways from sunday in a battle against QB. Period. Prodigy will respond, like with any conflict, the one you hear most recent seems to be the best. Just wait. And also no producer Jay-z gets is half as sick as Havoc.

-- jesse smith (timaeus5@aol.com), September 05, 2001.

Can I just say I'm down with the fact, learnt today, that Jay-Z's pushed up release now competes directly with Mariah's new "opus", Glitter? TAKE THE BITCH DOWN. I'll buy two copies to fuck with that girl.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 05, 2001.

Anyone out there who believes that Nas' verse to Jay on Stillmatic is close to Jay's verse (or song) to him is crazy. All questions about who the God MC is should be answered from song number 2 on The Blueprint. There is no comparison. No one has the total package like Jay. None!! How can anyone speak Nas' name in the same sentence. Like Jay said...He has a "One-hot-album-every-ten-year- average"! Career over...Lights out N___as

-- MainmanSean (seanbasket@aol.com), September 05, 2001.

The Blue Print Is SICK!! Nas has to go back to the drawing Board..HOVA will have a 5 mic classic this time around.

-- Will C (jigga_6@hotmail.com), September 06, 2001.

Okay, I reviewed the album, but I'm too lazy to summarize or repost so just go here if you want to discuss what I thought of it with me.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 06, 2001.

yo was up if you ask me nas is just pissed of seeing jay-z fake ass face on tv. my best advice for jay-z is to not answer back to nas diss because if he does nas will destory him. nas lyrics are too powerfull to compare with jay-z. my best advice for jay-z is before he decide to answer back listen to nas joinz like e.g. the message, the firm bizz, if i ruled the work, nas is like to let him know that he is going against a very hard mutherfucken hore rapper

-- MedEsco (mehiden@hotmail.com), September 07, 2001.

Who cares if Pac's first 2 albums didn't sell as much as Big. Pac and Big were not gods because of their albums. They were gods because of their charisma. Pac was a revolutionary who has sold more records(33 mil) than any rapper ever (Mc Hammer/Will Smith are second with 20 mill and then big with 16 mill). Type in Tupac in any web browser and see how many fuckin hits you get. Then type in big and see how many you get. No contest muhphukas. Pac is a phenomenon.

-- Don Juan (redd62@yahoo.com), September 07, 2001.

Ohmigoodness, did'ja hear Jay-Z's NEWEST comeback record to Nas? No, not "The Takeover" on The Blueprint, but he's got a new one that I'm banking will shut "Nasty" Nas up good; it's called "I Will Not Lose", and here's a sample:

"...niggas wanna play Hov' for pussy / I'll grab you by your fuckin' chipped tooth and send you home, you wussy / Talkin' bout, "Nas Is Like", I'll rob you of your life / You better just drop the mic / Or I'll murder you with this pocketknife / Hov' stay gutter / Hoes won't mutter / When I melt Escobitch like homemade butter..."

If ya'll ain't heard it by NOW, ya' better cop the MP3...Nas is aiight, but Hov' is the GOD! Undoubtedly, he is nice like librarians at closing time. Holla!

-- Danny "Puffy" Swain (puffswain@aol.com), September 07, 2001.

"I'll murder you with this pocketknife" sounds like something I've said to someone before.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 07, 2001.

I've written better rhymes than that.

-- Greg (scarth33@btinternet.com), September 07, 2001.

But wait, there's more! Peep the second verse:

"...feminist women love Jigga Man / Chikka-chikka look at Nas Esco, I'm sick of him / Look at him / Walkin' around with fake answers and all / I'll throw him cancerous barbs / Yeah, but he's so wack though / I got a pitbull that eats sheep and spits wool / And chews on Nasty Nas's flesh until its stomach gets full / This nigga skipped school / Barely went to class, thinkin' shit's cool Hid a loaded pistol under this retarded kid's stool..."

I'm tellin' you, Hov' is gutter like a bowling alley. Peep the REAL Blueprint LP, due next week! Holla!

-- Danny "Puffy" Swain (puffswain@aol.com), September 07, 2001.

Why don't you just admit that you're Ja Rule?

-- ALly (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 07, 2001.

Admit that I'm Ja Rule? I don't get it, ALly.

-- Danny "Puffy" Swain (puffswain@aol.com), September 07, 2001.

Holla, Puffy.

-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 07, 2001.

what sond did jay sample nas on, i cant remember. the blueprint is thowed as hell. he got in nas's ass. i think people dis nas more than he deserves. nastradamus was garbage, but I am was not bad. what do yall think about jada, cuz it seems like he gets no props. i think his shit was hot. what s this i hear about jay z being a faggot, is that true, cuz im hearin it a lot. oh yeah, one more thing, listen for that new nelly song"Number 1" that is the worst rap shit ever played on the radio, finally his fame is up.

-- houstons finest (simcol1111@aol.com), September 07, 2001.

Jigga Man sampled Nas's "The World Is Yours" for his own "Dead Presidents II". You heard him on "The Takeover": "...you made it a hot line / I made it a hot song..." Die-hard Jay-Z fan in the house! And remember, peep the new Jigga song "I Will Not Lose" as I posted earlier. Holla!

-- Danny "Puffy" Swain (puffswain@aol.com), September 07, 2001.

Jay-z is not gay, thats just a rumor that people spread.

-- (dfsf@dffg.c0m), September 07, 2001.

i think this is a good beef, i jus hope they keepit on wax... stillmatic was hard and so was the takeover, but neither nas or H.O.V.A. can see Pac... Pac was and is the king of the dis song (see hit em up, bomb first, and against all odds).

-- Kev Davis (kev_davis_jr@yahoo.com), September 09, 2001.

canibus ripped ll witht the 2001 freestyle

-- Brian Erwin (bugsy_33_2002@blackplanet.com), September 09, 2001.

With all this beef going on there should be nobody hungry foreal,but any way I think the only way to solve who's the best MC is to get them all on stage or ring with one mic and let it all out. Keep it gangsta with yo skills not the steel cause there's to many Mc's being rememberd. There all the best to me on different levels,but don't forget my mans and nem X !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Rell_Flava (Rell_Flava@yahoo.com), September 10, 2001.

Yo lets get shit straight...Nas fell off after Illmatic..hes not number two..hes not number three..shit he ain't even in the top twenty...Jay got mad commercial after reasonable doubt but he was still doin the businessman thing by puttin on the club-bangers..but i personally had no respect for him as a rapper...he was still definitely the strongest lyricist in the game..i just wasnt feelin what he was saying..however...all u rap gods gotta cop the blueprint...that shit is reasonable doubt status...aint nobody touchin him right now...regardless of the haters trying to holla..Nas is wack...that rhyme he spit was hot tho...maybe if he could consistently spit some hot shit he wouldnt have fallen off so damn hard...btw...Beanie killed Jada but Jada is definitely the tighter rapper overall...Holla!...ONE

-- Chris LastName (spnshpapi204@yahoo.com), September 10, 2001.

that retarded kid's stool joke on nas' 'sneak an uzi on the island' line is hype.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), September 10, 2001.

yo check i'm from cali, and i just heard about the jay z and nas beef when i copped the blue print. . .but i think over all nas is way iller then Jay Z, he might of fell off but he will be topping the charts agian. yeah, but nas battle flow was way iller then jayz diss.

-- Edwin JOHNSON (hnp_the_klik@hotmail.com), September 10, 2001.

Nas sucks, the only rappers holding it down in QB is Prodigy,Kool G Rap, Cormega and Tragedy khadafi. Nas diss sucked. Jay-Z killed him on the takeover.

-- The Don (sdfds@msn.com), September 10, 2001.

The way i see it....Lyrically there is no way in this lifetime Hova can ever match up to nas! Although jay-z has thrown out albums consecutivly the feud is rediculos. If you asked me the only album im feeling from jay-z and nas is both there first ones. Jay-z is commercial while nas you have to shit back and think about where hes coming from. All in all, this feud will play out very dirty. Cause niggahs both in queens and brooklyn dont give a fuck. Real niggahs do real things!


-- The Realness (Yougotit@aol.com), September 11, 2001.


-- JERRY JEAN (NYMIKNYC@NETSCAPE.NET), September 11, 2001.

Jay-Z and Nas are two good rappers. I think their is nothing wrong in saying what you want about another person as long as yall don't through hands. People buy and listen to there music everyday and there's nothing wrong with what they are doing. Both of them getting there money and they never stop doing what they love to do. This is a way of expressing themselves to the rap game.


-- Jay-Lo (Cherrydelight@yahoo.com), September 12, 2001.

DAMN MOTHERFUCKERS! Nigga Are Talking shit about this niggaz when they all are tight. Jay- z Ran The rap Game Like He Say. Nas is mad because he know he should have been the man that had thegme on lock beause his the best pure rapper, but Hova is a better at hustling getting with he wants. jadakiss is my nigga but he not that type that could be King of the rap game, he's more of a knight, as for Beanie Sigel his tight i like him but he can't be Compare To Jay, Kiss or Nas He not on there Level. their in College And Beanie and memphis, Sp, Sheek and the rest of the brave Heart are in High school. Prodigy Then Lost has Fucking Mind Taking Shots at jay, what the fuck was he thinking. Dmx is the realest down to earth nigga but not really lyrically deep. Really the only to Rapper the qualify as being the King is Jay and Nas, but Jay Out Standing record of deeping dope got him the crown, Nas just Trying To Restore his name and one day after doping 2 dope album that better than Jay-z(which i may add will be hard as heel to do) can steal the crown as King of the rap game. I HAD TO EDUCATE YOU FUCKERS!

-- TAZMA (Super-man@blackplanet.com), September 13, 2001.

nas is going to eat jay z for breakfast ya heard

-- big law (leprofit@aol.com), September 13, 2001.

Nas sucks big ass dick!! He was never hot, and never will be. He can't rap for shit, he aint' touchin jay-z so fuck that. But that does'nt matter cuz the best fucking rapper ever is still and always be Tupac Shakur mothafuckas

-- Michael (quadpac33@aol.com), September 13, 2001.

Some people just take this "commercial" thing too far. Regardless of who it is, people rap about life. Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt were some untouchable ass albums we can all agree on that one. However, it was their first albums so they rap about their lives (i.e. drugs and thuggin out). Not to much mentioning of iced out chains and expensive cars because they couldn't afford all that. They can now, so they've earned the right to rap about all that because it's a trophy to them. Bottom line of it all, some people are gonna love what you do, some people are gonna hate what you do. Just make sure that there are more people that love what you do. -Champagne James

-- Champagne James (champagne@foreverenterprise.com), September 14, 2001.

Jay-Z ripped Nas and Mobb Deep on his new CD!!! That nigga is everywhere and got the game on lock without a doubt!!!

-- Jeremiah Erby (jeremiaherby@hotmail.com), September 14, 2001.

after reading some of that shit i hope yall start killing yourselves. oh no this is the internet.

-- Suave Wobb (wobsis@hotmail.com), September 14, 2001.


-- EaSt SiDe LoVeR (osei-tutu@btinternet.com), September 15, 2001.

jay WAS cool but his last 2 albums just didnt cut apart from big pimpin he didnt have those clasic tracks u expexct from him. yeah he is a grat rapper but he seems 2 be lackin nowdays nas is de man he is 1 of de tightest rappers of all time if n e 1 could do in jay its him jay aint a batlling rapper and nas is da man.

-- andy hixon (hixon00@hotmail.com), September 15, 2001.

I think Nas and Jay-z are a couple of the best rappers right now. Although you can't compare the two. Jay-z is nothing more than a commercial pretty boy that says things to sell records. I like his stuff but it is not on the same level as Nas. Nas has ideas and opinions and can tell a story in a rap. Nas's combination of Illmatic, I am, and It was Written is better than anything Jay-z will ever put out.

-- Ray Vazini (ya41@aol.com), September 15, 2001.

Nas and Jay Z are probably two of the most talented MC out right now. But their stlyles are different. Jay Z has more of a laid back, witty style and Nas has a more inituitve, thought provoking deep rap. If you HAD to compare the to NAS would definfently eat Jay Z's ass. Nas's lyrics on H to the homo were so tight cause he ate damn near everybody in Jay Z's camp in about 8 bars. Jay'z's the takeover was tight in its own right, but he has ALOT of filler in there, and ther are few deep rhymes in the song. So basically, when Stillmatic comes out, It will be No question as to who is the king of NY. But even though these niggas is feudin about being the best, the best battle rapper of all time is definently Tupac. Hit em' up has to be the most damaging battle rhyme ever produced. Tupac dissed an entire COAST in that song, with each line lyrically murdering one MC after another. And damn near nobody responded to that song. The only rapper that actually responded hard to hit em' up was none other than Chino XL. All these other rapper bithchin about being the best like Jay Z, Prodigy, Nas, etc. wern't sayin nuthin. So, If you haven't heard Chino XL's freestyle dissing tupac, I suggest you download it. So in summarry NAS is better than Jay Z, Chino XL is the most underrrated MC, and Tupac is the best of all time. One.

-- Barry Rukes (biruke@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.

I'm assuming that after our terrible world trade incident Nas and Jay will both realize that their miniscule beef is nothing compared to the problems NYC is facing today. Even over the "American" bond they also share a "New York" bond as well. What you think?

-- Kuizzy fa Shizzy (comm_uh@hotmail.com), September 16, 2001.

Listen all dick heads. Ya Niggas is talkin mad shit not even thinking. Fuck Nas fuck Jay-z the nigga ya should be talking about is tha Fabolous. Fabolous album is 100 times better than the blueprints HoLLa Back at t

-- Michael (FaBoLoUs1133@aol.com), September 17, 2001.

How come no one raised an eyebrow when Nas spit "...these niggaz is wrong using your name in vain and they claim to be New York's king" You know he was talking about Jay-z and this was awhile back on the I am album. I like Jigga's lyrics but why's he always mentioning Big and Pac in all of his songs now. He didn't even know Pac. As a matter of fact I think he tried spittin some sneaky shit about Pac in I love the dough.

-- Smokey (smoknla29@yahoo.com), September 17, 2001.

Ya Niggaz is lame because Jigga and Nas Aint fucking wit FaBoLoUs

-- FaBoLoUs (fabolous1133@aol.com), September 17, 2001.

that fabulous cd is garbage. jada wrecks.

-- playbpoy (suckmypiece@yamamasahoe.com), September 17, 2001.

Jigga-blueprint- 41/2 mics in my opinion. i was a die hard fan of nas when illmatic came out, but he blatantly turned his back on his fans for sales. once you turn your back on your fans(especially in hip hop), you almost never get them back. he went for commercial appeal. he got the sales he wanted on his next album. by his 3rd(wack), his true hip hop fans were gone, and he became yesterdays news to everyone else. even when he put out a few bangers, niggas was hesitant to ride with him again. i'd about given up on him until he put out 'stillmatic'. but it will take more than that to make me buy another cd of his. i sincerely hope he takes it back to the streets though. and i don't mean the violence, i mean the cause. as for jay, many people won't agree but i think 'reasonable doubt' was just as commercial as most of his shit. tight-no doubt, but i think it was fairly consistant with the rest of his stuff. 'blueprint' is a definate standout though. only 41/2 because he's still a bit commercial for me. right now, jigga's king till someone proves otherwise. word for eternity---CONSISTENCE!!!!!

-- D. Was (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

oh my ...

-- Tadeusz Suchodolski (llamasfur@aol.com), September 18, 2001.

talk about jay z goin pop what the fuck has nas done? Beenie will eat nas, already ate jada. Don't fuck with the roc period. Jay Z has been around for a long ass time believe no one wants to battle Jay. Bleek is probably the weakest out of the roc and he's solid. Beans and Jay are the kings of the game right now. I honestly think that beans would hold his own or eat eminem in a cipher. The rocs hot no one can fuck wit their sales or there street appeal.

-- zach gannis (phonetics69@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

Nas is crazy out his mind. It started with "Hate me Now" and it just went south quick for him. His "FIRM" project with AZ and Foxy was a complete failure. His last two albums don't come close to his first two with hits such like "New York State of Mind" and "I Gave you Power" or even "Black Girl Lost." Jay-Z on the other hand is the illest. He's proven he can master any style. Look at his fukken resume: collabos with Dr. Dre to Mariah to Juvenile to UGK to Sauce Money to Snoop Dogg to JDupri to Too $hort. From "Ain't No Nigga" to "Sunshine" to "City is Mine" to "Can I Get a ..." to "Girl's Best Friend"to "S.Carter" to "Big Pimpin" to "HOVA." He can flow with anyone and can change styles with the best. He's earned the moniker "King of New York" by his works and his commercial sales. Are you kidding me? The beef can be traced back to even before Foxy Brown hooked up with Nas to form the FIRM, after Jay-Z basically made her and wrote half her rhymes. I think it's been long-standing that the two don't get along. Check "Life and Times of Sean Carter ... vol. 3" and listen to the song "Come and Get Me." The feud has been subtle until recently. "H to the izzo, M to the izzo" is clever. But, Nas has fallen a long time ago.


-- Avenel Solano (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 18, 2001.

I respect y'all's opinion, but I disagree to the utmost. First of all, Pac is the Best. He gone and his new stuff is still tight. If u put out a brand new Easy-E song in 2001, it might be ok, but it won't be hot. Same for Biggie. But if you put out a Pac song, that we never heard, wit up to date beats, it'll be tight. Look at "Til the end of Time." He probably wrote that in 96' but it is still an "on the top song." Sure it is some nonsense songs on that last CD that he may not even have ever released, but there are also some "Plait" type songs too,(All out) that no rapper, past or present can match. Second, Pac perfected the art of rap beef. Come on, he called out everybody from, Bigge, Nas, Jigga, everybody. And not one of them responded. Yes, even your boy Jay. Now Hov gives a shout out to Pac. I respect that, but just admit that Pac had them people scared to respond. I know Puff doesn't go for that so BIG may have had no choice, but look at Nas and Jay, ain't say a word. Mobb came back at him and I'm not really a fan of them but I respect them because they took on the Jordan of Rap. Next, I need to note that the rappers with the best skills right now are, Jada, Jigga and Nas. There stuff makes you think. They are not like other rappers. Look at all the peeps who are out now that Pac is gone, str8 biting his style (Master P, Cash Money). But Jada, Jigga and Nas don't copy. And they don't spit nonsense like the rest (Luda and Nelly to name a few) Yeah they all may have put some stuff out that was a little less than "hardcore" But you gotta do that to sale. If every track is street, than you will get hardly no air play and/or no sales. This ain't the block where you gotta keep it 1 way or else you are a sell out. No, you gotta put out with the people gonna buy. So the fact that the 3 rappers at the top (in my opinion) are selling and still keeping it tight, without nonsense songs, (Shake it fast) because of that, you gotta give them their dues. Lastly, if you think Beans is better than J-A-D-A, you are trippin'. I just heard Jada's comeback... Jada won if you ask me, but Beans did better than I would have guessed. But how does Beanie figure that ROC has the belt. If you pull Jay-Z out, then ROC is a bunch of "okay" rappers. Beanie ain't put out a thing that is classic, and I doubt if he can. The Jay vs. Nas is too close to call. I would say Jay won because he says more, but his is a response. I think it is easier to respond to a diss than to come out first. Whoever does #2 got the upperhand. So it is too close for me to call, but please don't act like Nas got str8 up punked, cause that ain't true. Both of these people laid it down. Okay, that's it. R.I.P to those in the plane incident in D.C., PA, NY and to Aaliyah. Holla.--------------Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

lyrically, most are you are dead wrong. on that tip it goes to cats like mos def, ras kass, talib kweli, eminem, and pharoah monch to name a few. there are many other artists "lyrically" that bring some shit that will totally blow your mind. of course you probably won't hear most of them because they lack that commercial appeal. jigga is one who has come closest to mastering both worlds. in my opinion, big's 'i'm ready to die' reached the peak. he had everything you could ask for in a cd. + he was a heavyweight lyrically. i love pac to death, but i look at him as more an icon, a personality (on par with ali for boxing) in the rap game. he had a bigger impact than the rest. but i don't think any of his cds were absolute standouts compared to other top cds. by the way, jigga held his own in renegade, but eminem.....damn!

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

i agree, who ever has the response diss will have the advantage on the person who put out the 1rst diss. I think neither Nas or Jigga are the kings of New York, but Jigga is the hottest rapper out now. I never thought that the ROC was holding it down. If you ask me, the Rawkus record label is the hottest label out right now. I think that Method Man's next album might knock out Jay-Z and Nas.

P.S. watchout for that Nigga named Royce da 5'9"

-- Darth Marl (34j@dfd.com), September 18, 2001.

Isn't there anyone who thinks that Tupac is a talentless fuck? Him and his bloody loungecore piano samples and pathetic attempts at making himself some sort of intellectual icon. He fits every stereotype about rap, the constant songs about loving his mama, and besides all this his Gangster posturing doesn't convince me at all. Also his voice is shit and he's pretentious moreso than most rappers and in a more irritating way.

-- Ronan (fitzger@statoil.com), September 18, 2001.

2Pac was in Digital Underground, which gives him a free cred card.

Beyond that, one reason he fits the stereotypes for gangsta rap so well is because he was one of the people used to cement them.

-- Dan Perry (djperry@post.harvard.edu), September 18, 2001.

Shit, forgot to add that Pac's gangsta posturing was anything but posturing; read some more about his life and you'll see an intelligent person forced into a bad situation who was well on his way out of it when he was killed.

-- Dan Perry (djperry@post.harvard.edu), September 18, 2001.

I don't think either rapper is better. They are both on top. Like Jay said his self before, the greatest rappers are Biggie, Jay- Z, and Nas. They just need to drop it, and be cool again. Cause to me, it seems stupid to keep on rapping about killing another rapper, or doing harm to another rapper when you know your not going to do it. I feel that if they really want to be called one of the greatest rappers, they need to be the bigger people, and drop it. Maybe some rappers kept on going, but they could just drop it, and be cool. To me neither one of them are weak. They are both on top. All this beef ain't needed. I think if you need to prove anything to anyone. If someone questions you being the best, don't start a whole flow about killing them, just keep on doing your thing. Doing that will shut people up. To me no other rappers will touch Nas or Jay, thats the prediction, Holla back.

-- Yatta (hotgirlhb@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

All you who think that NAS has fallen off, fuck that! ya his nastradamus album was disapointing, but lyrically he's best, you all know he can spit a hot verse. His still got it, and he's going to use what he's been saving, to shit on GAY-Z. And what the fuck was that song Gay-Z did at the end with his hidden track with "girls, girls" remix. What kind of fucking beat is that. Did he sample that from Sesame Street!? I guess he truly is Gay....Z Remember album sales don't mean shit. Theres a difference between HIP-HOP and HIP-POP and NAS is HIP-HOP.

-- Larry Bird (LarryBird@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

gotta give it to donwas a few posts up ... mos def is a classic, lyrical visionary. and the others you mention are good too. but, this a debate about NAS and Jay-Z ... and the KING OF NEW YORK title. all this 2pac stuff is buggin me out. 2pac was great ... one of the greatest ... but he admittingly knew he wasn't the best rapper ever. it was his charisma and thug style what people loved. AND, from most accounts, JAY-Z WAS the first to call out Nas. so, he wasn't just responding. yes, jay-z shouts out 2pac with "the flows of all flows, not a demon, but a rose in the cement" and other lines. he also shouts out eminem and snoop dogg "until snoop crushed the building ... i'm trying to restore the feeling." JAY-Z respects and loves hip hop. remember the joint with AMIL and Jaz-o "Nigga what"? could Nas rhyme that fast? has Nas put out anything that can compare to "The World is Mine" or "Black Girl Lost" on his last two albums? his last two albums, he tried to commercialize and went for the "bling-bling" steez. jay-z still bumps hard core along with the booty dance mixes. his gansta stuff makes it into the mainstream "who ya with" and "watch me" with dr. dre. Nas will be forever remembered for "ILLMATIC" ... but Jay-Z really put hip hop into everyone's living room, everyone's car stereo, and still had thugz lovin it.


-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 18, 2001.


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

to me in my opinion personally i think the best LYRICIST has to be master p cuz he keep it gutter and he keep it fa sho dirty. 2nd lyricist is nelly, with ludacris coming in at a close 3rd, fa shoe ya undagig ei whatt it do holla at ya boy. tell ya mama let me smash in her ear, ei fa sho holla at me.

-- matt (matt78777@aol.com), September 18, 2001.

I don't want anyone to think for a second that i feel nas has lost his ability to speak poetry. i know that he has it in him. but i, like many other hip hop fans that love the "art", feel he hasn't grown from illmatic. you just don't come gutter your first time out then leave it all behind for the glamour. at that time, we already had 40,000 mc's rappin about italian clothes, champagne, ice, and 4.6's. we didn't need nor want that from him. he was the one that was supposed to put the east coast back on the map. take hip hop back to the streets(once again, not for the violence-for the cause). now i understand that a nigga gotta eat, but that's what makes an artist truly an artist. one who doesn't compromise for the almighty dollar. don't get me wrong, if that's what you do-that's what you do. jigga happens to be good at it. but many of us just expected more from nas. i don't hate him for it, just disappointed. he came wicked on stillmatic, but it feels a little bit like hatin'!! battle raps won't get him the title. a couple of tight cd's will get him back on track though.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 18, 2001.

The definition of lyricist is not Master Percy. Any rep from the SOUTH is BITCH MADE with some exceptions. Master P-Bitch made, Lil' Wayne-bitch made, anyone else with lil' or big in there is BITCH MADE. A lyricist award should be awarded to the following: Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Common, Mos Def, Pharoahe Monch, 2Pac (early years) and with another album like Marshall Mathers LP Eminem. As for the best in battle rap 2Pac (later years), L.L. Cool J, Jay-Z with a track like "Takeover" and Biggie Smalls with the 2Pac retaliation tracks such as "Long Kiss Goodnight" and "Dig 'em up(unreleased)".

-- Ski-dub (Skinnie81@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

Anyone whose top 3 lyricists are p, luda, and nelly needs to get the fuck outta this discussion

-- Thix (tylahix@yahoo.com), September 19, 2001.

I'm tired of people saying Nas ain't commercial. Than the what the hell was "You Owe Me" w/ Ginuwine all about? Oochie Wally? He was trying to gain commercial success mu fuckas. Like Jay-Z said Niggas betta learn to respect the King. Hov got all this rap game on lock even with his sorry ass Roc-a-fella crew. Nas don't know who he wants to be anymore. He failed at being a thug because Cormega pulled his card in XXL and admitted that Nas never slanged crack/rock. Nas is a poet and he should keep his ass in the books and not try to be a thug cause he aint. Hov is gutter and he makes music that everyone can feel. That nigga ain't commercial. that nigga is a smart ass business man who is making some mean ass loot. So quit hating on my nigga. So mark my words DMX Jada Mobb Deep Jayo Felony Nas QB whoever ya'll can't fuck with Jay on the mic. Don't throw rocks at the throne bitch.

-- s-1 (murda4life@collegeclub.com), September 19, 2001.

You're all 35-year-old white male accountants in Jersey City, aren't you?

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 19, 2001.

y'all need to peep OLU DARA ... Nas' FATHER. he does some ill southern folk/caribbean/bluesy stuff with guitar and the cornet. this proves that nas has musical genes. he is a poet, a musician. but, he ain't no gangsta. jay-z is a gangsta. 2pac will NEVER be the greatest lyricist ever. he is just one of the greatest rappers ever. there's a big difference. his shiy like "it's all about you" "changes" "i ain't mad atchya" "get around" "live and die in l.a." ... they don't showcase great lyricism. they showcase a great performer who can make ya feel what he feels. when there is a debate about lyrics, and rapstyles, how can you argue with biggie's "notorious thugs" or "the what" with methoman or "nasty boy" or "going back to cali" or "everyday struggle." and don't hate jay-z for giving props to the dead. battling and feuding is for the living. even dr. dre made peace with eazy-e. ain't no use to feud ... unless 2pac is still alive. jay-z understands that 2pac was great. he just didn't like him when he was alive. and if y'all are throwin in corny emcees into the mix like master p and nelly, how about busta rhymes. he's got ... many stylez, many stylez. the one joint with mystical is off the heebeez, and "the body rock" with puffy, mase and rampage, busta wrecked it. give props where props are due. commercial or not, jay-z is great. and, nans is a great poet. but, when it comes to KING OF NEW YORK, the title stays with HOVA. whoever talked smack about nas' "you owe me" with ginuine with also the "hate me now" track is right. nas tried to ride the train. lost his hop faithful. the illegitmate son of prince rakim has lost much of his ooomph. battle rhymes died out in the mid nineties anyway.

-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 19, 2001.

H to the Izzo V to the Izzay what the fuck is that nigga tryin to say stupid azz jigga never pulled a trigga Nas is right / Jay-Z is a HOMO

-- JayNova (izzo@stupidazz.com), September 19, 2001.

That last line didn't rhyme.

-- Dan Perry (djperry@post.harvard.edu), September 19, 2001.

This is fa all ya niggaz out there that is feelin this shit that's goin on between jay-z and naz. It aint nuttin but a shitfest. jay hova's got skills but he need to stay away from battle rappin, especially wit nasty nas, that nigga will eat his ass like cornbread! Jay is definetly the hottest in the game right now but he need to stick wit what he know. HE aint know gangsta rappa JAy just keep it tight. ANd nasty need to come out of the shell he was in oochie, that's cool but he need to burn them hits like back in the day. ANy way I'm out niggaz. One

-- jamal j. (j_raw2k1@yahoo.com), September 19, 2001.

i'm feelin' you A.Sol!! i just wanted to apologize to all for saying i give jigga 41/2 mics a few lines back. after listening to each cut a few more times, in my humble opinion it's a definate 5. he brought it all on this one. initially i gave him a 41/2 for biased reasons. but to give him anything less than 5, i'd truly be hatin'. this one's a classic. as for nas.., wasted talent is a sad thing. there is so much that he can potentially bring to this game. i don't know if the love is there anymore though. maybe the money and the fame had a little too much of an affect on him. right now i'm seeing nas as whitney houston....all the talent in the world, but what the fuck is going on?!!! or should i say mariah?

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

and another thing. i think for anyone to put down an entire coast is bullshit. although i don't agree that master p and nelly are on the top 10 lyricist list[:):)lol], there are several wicked lyricist from every coast and in between. but understand that opinions will differ. i'm feelin many artists from rawkus records but another nigga might not because you can't dance to it or it might not be gangsta enough. on the other hand i might not be feelin their music because they ain't talkin about shit or they're not teachin me anything. as long as you are being true to the music you're trying to put out and to yourself, i've got to respect!! oh, sorry for gettin off the subject. NAS VS JAY Z.........JIGGA BY UNANIMOUS DECISION. did i spell that right? decision....hmmm.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

Vashon...."i'm about a dolla, what the fuck is 50 cents?" did u forget that line? jay is the man, he never fell off. where have u guys been for the last 5 years? as a matter of fact, u musta been at the same place nas has been at. u cant be the man with 2 hot songs an album. any song on any of jay's albums could be hit singles. u cant top that. hova is the king of hip-hop. nas aint even on the level to suck jay's nuts.

-- Joe Maffei (COO@MULTIPLEBJS.COM), September 19, 2001.

On Illmatic and Reasonable Doubt Nas and Jay-Z were keeping it real, rapping what they knew, wallpaper, green chairs, fudge banana swirl. Then Jay-Z got snooty-tooty and no more green chairs for him, it's all the black lampshade of elegance. Flying porchmats and tendril-charming piddle. No, you're wrong, Jay-Z triumphs, it's not the black of death, it's the black of eyelashes! the black of whiskbrooms! the black of stereo components! And Nas isn't even green chair. He's green stool maybe. And that's no green, it's olive green, gangrene, anemia green. "Olive green" you say? It's martini green! The stemware blade of slit-you stillness, Nas is. He's a poet, a Rod McKuen. Nas? A Rod McKuen? He's a Washcloth McKuen. While Jay-Z is the McKuen Daddy, the laser-sharp flare of autumnular grace, the fire - no, no, wait! - the firefly night-style - no, wait, wait, STOP!

What the fuck is "autumnular grace"?

It's the automative shift-up rev-up into the smooth food crusher--

No. You're making that up. It doesn't MEAN ANYTHING.

Mean anything? MEAN anything? I come in talking two C's. That's still the price. I come because I thought I'd get a take it or leave it, one right gee to another. Now you're waving "meaning" at me. You oughta be ashamed of yourself.

OK. You're right. I'm sorry. So what you're saying is that Nas is the orgasm technicolor reflex, and Jay-Z is the long cool glide?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 19, 2001.

not sure i follow, but it sounds wicked. hhmmm.....not sure

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 19, 2001.

But jazz is hard to follow; I mean you actually have to like jazz to follow it; and my motto is, never follow anything. But my post follows your post, so I've just revealed myself as a hypocrite. If there's a moral here, it's that real isn't something to copy, it's something to create. And by the way, you did spell decision right.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 20, 2001.

#1 To whoever said Pac ain't one of the best when it comes to lyrics, you r wrong. He had it from the start of his rap career to the end. PAIN--steady thuggin' in the streets/ and i'll be ballin' loc/ don't let'em make you worry/ keep swingin' at these suckas till you buried/ i was born to raise hell, a nigga from the gutta,/ with a motha on drugs/ i'm kickin dust up/ ready ta bust/ i'm on the scene/ steady muggin' mean /until they kill me/ i'll be livin this life/ i know you feel me. One of his last UNTIL THE END OF TIME--- Perhaps I was addicted to tha dark side/ Some where inside my childhood I missed my heart die / And even though we both came from tha same places /Tha money and tha fame made us all change places /Could it be through tha misery/ They can't get past?/ The hard times make a true friend afraid to ask/ for currency but you can run to me when you need it/.... It never stop, when my mama ask me will I change/ I tell her yeah but it's clear I'll always be tha same/.... Remain strong in this planet full of playa hataz/ They conversate but Death Row full of demonstrators/ And in tha end drinkin' henassy/ made all my enemies envy me/ So cold when I flow eliminatin' easily/ Fall to they knees, they plead for they right to breath / While beggin' me to keep tha peace haha/ What I can see closer to achieve/ In times of danger don't freeze time to be a G/ Follow my lead I supply everything you need/ An ounce of game and tha trainin' to make a G'/ Remember me? No disrespect but do your homework cuz. #2 Whoever wanted to bring Nelly, Luda, and Mystcal into the debate ...you r str8 up tripin. That's all I'll say on them; they don't even get half a bar from me. #3 Don Was, I agree with you to a point dogg, but why does one person have to stick to one style? How come Nas can't do some thug songs and then do some Puff songs too? I feel you on an artist being true, but why can't he try it all without being lable a seelout. I'm not sayin you said this, but we shouldn't pigion hold people. Besides it ain't one rapper that I can think of that has a CD with nothing but HARDCORE songs, I said it before, u gotta put out a few MTV songs. I know many disagree, but u can't have it both ways. Some are going by the sales. Okay, well the MTV songs sale. But if Nas keeps it all street then it won't sale as many and then peeps say "It only sold half a mil." And Jay has put out many less than hardcore songs why isn't he called out for that? Izzo, and Girls, Girls. I like em both but if y'all goin say Nas fell off with "Hate me now" remember it goes both ways. Holla. Qoolout of D.C. baby

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

this battle is nice, like someone said before i hope it dosent turn violent, anyways as far as greatest lyricist, i got to give it to RAKIM...THE MASTER!

-- pj (pj_forever74@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

Jay-Z ate Nas ass up. Me and my boy just listened to that shit, and we LOVED when Kay called two of Nas' albums "doo!" That shit's hilarious! Second, Jay-Z will never be the King of NY. It's still Biggie - 5 years after his death. Jay-Z is the king of hip-pop, which is not necessarily a diss. I like Jay-Z a lot, but I recognize that 90% of his success is based on collabos (whoever's hot at the time) and production. Timbaland, Dr. Dre, DJ Premier, Swizz Beatz, the Neptunes, etc. all produce his songs. How can they NOT be hits? He's nice lyrically, but with such great production he doesn't have to really try. 2Pac is without a doubt the greatest rapper of all time. He ate the East Coast alive on Hit Em Up, then he ate them up (along with gay ass Dre) on Makaveli. As a rapper, 2Pac stands alone at the top. Biggie was a great lyricist, but his delivery was nowhere near Pac's. Nor Nas, Jay-Z, or Jada or anybody. The reason Pac is the best is because he can take any lyric and any beat and make it a hit. I mean if I wrote a song, and I had Big, Jay-Z, Pac, DMX, Eminem, Meth, Red, whoever perform what I wrote, Pac would make it sound the best. No one else can do that. Especially not monotone Jay-Z or snot in the throat Biggie. Eminem comes the closest to combining lyrics and delivery like Pac. Another thing, I'm from the South. Our lyrics may not be all that, but that South thrives on production and delivery or basically, making your head bob. If you ain't bankhead bouncin when you hear a song, then take that shit out the South. And if you notice, that's why nobody talks about king of the South because there's so many rappers with hits. Outkast, UGK, Three 6, 8ball, Timbaland, Master P, Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, and all of the one hit wonders. The South is where it's at. So in closing 2Pac reigns, with BIG and Eminem following (don't hate on the white boy) and the South makes you bounce. We ain't worried about weak ass poetry with music. P.S. Mos Def, Black Thought, Common, PMonch, and all those earthy Erykah Badu's little sons bastards all sound the same - extremely dick in he bootie.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 20, 2001.

Ally, more like 12 year old white males

-- Ronan (fitzger@statoil.com), September 20, 2001.

Can someone give me the 411 on Jay-Z . Dont know nothing bout him.

-- anthony (anthonyeaston@home.com), September 20, 2001.

What do you want to know?

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

I agree with everything Hillis 3000 said.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

Let me just re-iterate. Tupac did nothing for rap, where can you hear his influence now? Where? Nowhere because noone is willing to reproduce the sort of cheesey loungey, Mariah Carey without lyrics type beats he had and his pretentious bastard Rose from Concrete Makiveli bullshit. Was his voice anything particularly special? Hardly. Cemented the gangsta posturing??? Hardly ,it was well in place by the time his day came along. In case you didnt know Tupac is up with Aphex Twin on my hate list.

-- Ronan (fitzger@statoil.com), September 20, 2001.

I like the quality of Biggie's voice more (small diff. w/H3K) and you have to hand it to him for creating his own scene. But 2Pac was more vulnerable than Biggie. You could hear it in his voice, that he was struggling. It takes guts to bare yourself like that on record. Somehow the way Biggie invested in his own myth didn't allow him to. Self-doubting rap = more to relate to (for this hed).

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

I keep telling ya lame niggad that Jay-z And Nas is Lame Fabolous is the nigga ya should be talking about Ghetto Fabolous is better than the Blueprints

-- Michael (fabolous1133@aol.com), September 20, 2001.

Don, I'm not too familiar with either Jay Z or Nas's oeuvre but in your professional opinion which one could walk the dinosaur?

-- Billy Dods (butterbubble9@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

Are the Fabolous songs without Nate Dogg on them anywhere near as good as the single that's out now? Somehow I doubt it.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), September 20, 2001.

Fabulous is average at best, his flow is suspect, his delivery is nothing to get excited about, and the only good thing he has done musically is steal a hook from 2Pac and have Nate Dogg guest star - both of which have been done before, so the bastard isn't even original.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 20, 2001.

Ronan this is for you. 1st of all, Pac has all of the sterotypes because 80% of the people out have copied him. Master P and cash money and a lot of others are wanna be Pacs. Even those who don't str8 up bite him, have used some of his lines. Like Jay-Z, "not a demon, but a rose in the cement," or another Jay Z line "You wasn't using it right, you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song," Pac already said that, "Yeah I took y'alls beat, you wasn't rockin it right." Second, you say "what did he do for rap?" He did too much for me to try to explain it dogg. Like I said before, you need to do your homework. What rapper made an entire song about his mother before Pac did it? Scarface (maybe) is the only one I can think of. Now just about all of them wanna do it. Who was saying that they was a Thug before Pac made it popular? Now every single so called hardcore rapper has to say "I'm a Thug." And you can't hold Pac responible for "Rose in the cement." If it was bad, don't say Pac put out a bad CD. He didn't produce that, and he did decide who would read and flow on there. Tell me if Pac is so bad, who is it that you like? Nines times outta ten, you'll say someone who probably copied Pac. And to the person who says Ghetto Fab is better than Blueprints... I'm not gonna touch that statment. I'll let someone else handle that. Holla, Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

And another thing... Ronan, this may be cliched but, put down the Haterade. I bet you're one of them niggas who don't like Jordan, says Shaq has no skill, thinks Iverson is a thug, swears Randy Moss is overrated, and thinks Wayne Chrebet is better than Keyshawn.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 20, 2001.

I agree with the guy who said Rakim. 2Pac was the thug and Biggie was the king, Nas is the poet and Jigga is the pop king, but yall need to remember: RAKIM WAS THE GOD. If he was in his prime today, with the production today's rappers get, yall heads would be spinning because nobody could flow so nice as the god Rakim. If you don't own up to this you don't have hip-hop love or knowledge.

As for Jay v Nas, Nas maybe had more talent than Jay originally, but face it Nas fans, after Illmatic it has gone to waste. In '95 you had an argument based on lyrical skills but not anymore, and the only reason people say he is better than Jay is because they are HOVA HATIN. A lot of you people who were noddin to the shit on Vol 2, yeah even Hard Knock! don't lie to me nigga, I saw you in the club! turned around and started hatin Jay when Vol 2 blew up.

Look at it: most everyone knows Nas has lost the lyrical depth, and everyone agrees he can't put together club tracks as hot as Jay. J puts out "Izzo" and hatas call it pop sellout but they forget that Nas put out shit like "K.I.S.S.I.N.G." which is just an attempt to copy Jiggaman and turn pop, but its not as hot a track for the club as Jay can make and lyrically it is pure garbage. Jay has put out some weak shit at times but never anything as sad as "K.I.S.S.I.N.G."

Roc-a-wear does suck tho. My boy got some and it fell apart. Peace.

-- eric (rakimthegod@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

my, my, have things gotten ugly here. i think what many are not quite following is the point that nas has not, IN MY OPINION, put out a good cd since illmatic.
-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

well, this really sucks. I just wrote a huge paragraph and only got a couple of lines to come out in print. 1st complaint. guess it wasn't that important, but don't worry... i remember it. i'll bless you all in a few.

-- DonWas (mailto:donpaul1@hotmail%20.com), September 20, 2001.

to add to what i was saying... basically after the 1st cd nas put out (classic), fans flocked to get his 2nd. disappointment led to lower sales on his 3rd, 4th, and so on. now i don't think there is anything wrong with putting out a 'popular' cd to ensure your grandkids are fed. but at the very least, give the 'popular' fans something they want to hear. what's unfortunate is that nas doesn't seem to thrive off of mainstream hip hop as jay does. i don't personally listen to most mainstream hip hop, but jay attracts my attention because he happens to bridge the gap better than, quite possibly anyone before. true, i like mos def, kweli, common, outkast, and the rest of erykah's kids(that was pretty funny), but good music is good music. and for the most part, i don't think nas has come with it in a while. and by the way, R.I.P. 2pac and big: and forgive us, many of us just take things to heart when it comes to your name.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 20, 2001.

A rose in the cement

Yeah, well I'm a cactus in the poodle garden. So what?

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 21, 2001.

jay-z is a good guy but his shit is LAME! rhyming pussy with wussy? what in the fuck is that?!

-- lil chi**man (esturbo@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

They should reference this thread in an episode of Futurama, because I have a feeling it will last for several thousand years.

-- Ned Raggett (ned@kuci.org), September 22, 2001.

Bottom Line: Nas still is and always will be Nasty. He has not dropped off at all, anyone that claims that is definitely not up on the shit going on in NYC (so stay the fuck out!). Jigga has never had an album even close to half as good as Illmatic or It Was Written, and he never will. Know why? Because he is a commercial- ass pussy nigga. Sure, he makes all those party songs, but that is all he is good for. If you love seeing a faker hustler punk on your MTV, the Box, and BET, than by all means, you probably love Jay-Z and his gay ass. Haha. True MCs do not need all the ice and bling-bling BS that is so common today. Did you ever see Marly Marl, RUN DMC, LL, MC Shan, Bambatta, Stetsa, Nas, Rakim, Cube, Dre, MC Lyte, EPMD, Redman, Raekwan, Mobb Deep, GangStarr, or the Bootcamp pull any lame shit like wanting to be up on MTV all day like all the studio gangsters out there now? No. Hells no. That shit all became popular with Homos like Puff and Jigga, Cash Money, etc. To all you that think Jigga is jiggy, enjoy his ass and stay the fuck outta NYC and QB. Jadakiss and Nas are more than enough to cut Roc-a-fella down to size. Jigga didn't even coin the term roc-a-fella, he just stole it from one of the realest, that shows you what he is all about.

-- QB soulja (jsuarez@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

hold up man, yall boys better recognize lil flip. i can do that. i predict hisd shit will sell between a hundred thousand and 8.6 million, thats just my to me, you might have a different to me, it just depend. also, that nigga lil romeo wreck shit for a young un, and he got some hang time. he keepin it gutter

-- lil whoadie (lilwodie@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

qb soldia speaks the truth, nas's shit all fits together and sounds good. jay-z sounds like he just puts random things together and says them, and surprise surprise, its sounds totally WACK

-- chi**man (esturbo@hotmail.com), September 22, 2001.

yo!! who ever thing jay homo is better than NAS u need a reality check jay homo is as comercial as it comes yes reasoniable dought was a good album but is it beter than illmatic NAS feel off in terms of having hits i dont thing he completly fell off we jus haven't heard him on the radio as much if u a real hiphop head u would know this


-- gilson veiga (cv_mathaimatikz@blackplanet.com), September 23, 2001.

stay the fuck out of ny and qb huh? nas hasn't tried to bling bling it huh? just wait til nas' next cd comes out, right? i don't really think this needs to be addressed, but okay. for starters you probably need to leave that shelter in qb and realize that there are many talented emcees outside of ny. there is a lot of bs that comes out of ny. if you are a true hip hop fan i needn't remind you that you'll find talent and bullshit just about everywhere you look. now i don't want to waste anymore time on that issue so just listen to ras kass''sonset', track 7(from the 'soul on ice' cd). 2ndly, i think nas has been trying to bling bling it as much as the next emcee on his last few cd's(including the firm). and lastly, i don't know if jay is gay or not (that seems to be the justification something i haven't quite figured out). what i do know is that until nas does put out a good cd(it's been a while), he simply won't compare. you can call 'blueprint' commercial or whatever, but it's the best hip hop cd i've heard this year.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.

Yeah, gilson, we all need a reality check because reality is pickin' boogers and worshipping armpits and scaling the highest puddle. (Not that Nas is to blame. He's another petty bully homophobe, but hardly the only one.)

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 23, 2001.

I’ve read some ridiculous statements here! Master P or Nelly? He must be like 12 for real !! Anyway…When Jay-Z (what I will always refer to him as) first dropped he was mad creative, for real. I remember hearing him on a mix tape my man made, I was like “who’s that”. Jumped on the first LP...then skipped all the others until this last one. The production is elite, and he’s making the head the nod! Is it glamorous? yah it is.. but I give props where its do. I don’t like that “bling” shit but he actually came with some original joints this time around (like the Jay-Z I first remembered) It’s an art peoples, its about being original. As far as what’s in whip's CD changer now; The Roots, Talib Kwali, Best of Gangstarr, Dead Prez, and the new Maxwell joint (for the ladies) As far as lyricist are concerned (in random order)...Rakim, Biggie, Black thought, Nas, Guru, KRS1, and yes Jay-Z. Peace-

-- Rommel (rommelespinal@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.

ey whats that song, i think its drag on and eve. some of the lines are "LEts talk about BITCHES I FUCK" Then eve, or some broad says "LEts talk about LIL DICK NIGGAS" They go back and forth, this song was tite but i cant remember it, somebody help me out. holla

-- unhunh (simcol1111@aol.com), September 23, 2001.

it's on eve's first cd. w/ drag-on. lyricists- no particular order- Ra, KRS, BIG, Kweli, Mos Def, Ras Kass, Eminem, Jigga, and several underground artists. this list could change next week of course. you know how hip hop fans are. best female lyricist- hmmm, maybe foxy brown...don't know. any input? the nas vs jay z issue is getting tired.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.

I gots ta agree with hills 3000 about what he says about jay Z. The only reason jay z is on top and even being considered as the "king of new york" is because of the tight producers he is able to work with. Most other artists can only afford to have a song or two produced by a well known producer, while jay can afford to have his entire album produced by an all star cast. Needless to say, tight beats coupled with Jay-Z's gimmicky rhyme style leads to high sales. Without those tight beats, nobody would even be considering JAY Z' as being anywhere in the top ten. I bet nobody (except the rocafella dicksuckers) would claim that Jay Z's Reasonable doubt was better then any of the other classics, namely Illmatic, Blackstar, Me Against the World, and All Eyes on Me. In order to be a great MC, you must first be on top lyrically. When I say lyrically, i don't mean gimmicky, dolla flashin, booty rhymes. I mean lyrically complex, consious rhymes that brings something to the hiphop world that no one else can. With that in mind, I can't even consider jay z as one of the best. Rappers now (that are living) that could be condidered include: Nas(Illmatic), Mos def, Talib Kweli, Common, Chino XL, Rakim, Shabam Sadiq, Black Thought, and the old Rass Kass. The deaceased and old school rappers I would inlcude are: Tupac, KRS-one, Public Ememy, Tragedy the intelligent thug, Dana dane, Slick Rick, and Big Daddy Kane. All this bullshit about da ROC being number 1 is gabage because if jay z were to die tommorow, the roc would die also. As a final note, don't let album sales, determine who is the best MC. Just because a nigga is hot at the moment and sells a bunch of CD's doesn't make him the greatest of all time. Cause if that were the case the best rappers would be Nelly, mater p, and ludacris.

-- Bwrecks (biruke@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.

tired tired tired. nas, try putting out another good cd. period< that's all i ask. illmatic was definately classic...what year was that? you've put out bullshit since then. on mic skills alone, there are several top notch emcees. some of you have named a few, but to not include jay has to be considered hatin'. it's understandable though. hip hop fans have always been kinda finicky. especially when one artist starts gettin all the glory.(i know it's also killin niggas that eminem is gettin so much praise for his skills, but you can't front. the kid brings it) 'blueprint' is straight up classic material. of course i could really do without the remix to 'girls girls girls'. it actually sounds like some beat nas would use. nas has HAD any producer he's wanted to work with, but he has not been able to come close to another classic cd, so obviously his formula has not been working as of late. nas, i challenge you to put out a cd this millenium that is not total bullshit!! i thought this conversation was over?!! ya killin me kogan!! lol:)

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 23, 2001.

all yall muthafuckers crazy especially the ones that wrote the long ass shit on here get a fuckin life! assholes!

-- (1hotgirl@excite.com), September 23, 2001.

2pac is still alive. his death was a sham. he faked his death to make money outta you suckers and it worked.

-- he can't fool me (youfools@hesalive.com), September 23, 2001.

Best Female Rapper - Lauryn Hill

-- Thix (tylahix@yahoo.com), September 23, 2001.

1hotgirl is actually the gay rapper!

i agree, lauryn hill!

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 24, 2001.

Is 1hotgirl implying that we should get the fuckin' life in our assholes? Intriguing suggestion.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 24, 2001.

yo i'm from the west....and for realz Jay z is doin his thing. Nas had fallen off like jus like the world trading center ( r.i.p to those who died) I think Beans and Jada are about the same. But Jada's album is better than Beans. Oh the G.O.A.T is Makaveli...his shit is deep like the abyss. ne wayz i'm out.

-- Jay (lo_ves711@hotmail.com), September 24, 2001.


-- Ha Ha Ha you'll never know (HEHEHE@Hotmail.com), September 24, 2001.


-- Darren K. (darrenscoq@aol.com), September 24, 2001.


-- Ally (garance80@Yahoo.com), September 24, 2001.

best female rapper....jay-z

jay-z is witty,nas is deep,jay-z is clever,nas is intelligent.

the reason tupac fits the gangster rap stereotype is because he took ghetto life and values and represented them even in court.wherever he went he still handled life the way he would if he'd been in the project hallways.so the rest of the ghetto-ignorant people even as far away as london took him as the basic american gangster rapper.

tupac's voice wasnt straining you fool.his voice changed to reflect the emotion of the song unlike biggie's.

-- wizard (whitneym89@hotmail.com), September 24, 2001.

Yo I was digging jay back in the day but now he done lost his mind! Nas is the MAN and is way deep than jay. peace to the god

-- yellowmello (yellowmello7@yahoo.com), September 24, 2001.

1st of all hotgirl.......If we don't have lives and you want to critique are lives, what does that make you? Best lyric makers gotta be Pac, BIG, Jada, Nas, Jay-Z and maybe a few more. Eminem got some skills, but he loses some points with me when he raps about sexin' dead mammals and all that nonsense. Yes I reconize his talent, but you have to take all of his stuff in to account. And one last thing about him, I'm not hating, but tell him to beef with someone who will beef back and leave the pop stars alone. Brintey and Christina and the boy bands....all of that is funny, but if you gonna call out some one don't pick on a lil softee, take it to the real. And that Fred D doesn't count. Now, about Rakim. I guess he had his time back in the day, but ain't no way you can say he'd be the man today. Naw, they rapping about other things now, and didn't he already try a comeback? Now about Nas... I guess everybody is sayin that his first CD was untouchable. If that is the case then stop comparing all his others to it. Just becasue they are not as tight, doesn't mean they are str8 up weak. John Singleton put out Boyz-N- the Hood as his 1st movie. He can never put out a better movie, don't hate on the next movies because it is impposble to match a true classic. Think about that 1. And you can't really tell me that Nas last few CD's didn't have at least something you were feeling. Listen to "We will Survive" or "I want to talk to You" or "Last Words." I'm telling y'all he is still spittin some true-make-you-sit-down-and-think-about- it-type-rhymes. And as far as sales, that means nothing. With all of the downloading and the bootlegs, and Nelly out selling Jigga...that should tell you. Sales don't prove a thing. Holla. And P.S. Beans don't want Jada 4real. Ask Bleek, he don't want it wit J. I can't wait for round 2. I hope there is a round 2. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 25, 2001.

We only get half a bar. Fuck us.

-- Honda (darkcorn7x@aol.com), September 25, 2001.

Oh my bad BEST FEMALE RAPPER - Jay-Z then Lauryn


one love

-- Thix (tylahix@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

I am with you on Lauryn. I've been saying for 2 years that her next album shd be ALL RAP.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

HoLLa back to all you fake niggas who keep tryin to play my son fab on some wack shit my son is better than jay and nad HoLLa back

-- Mike (Fabolous1133@aol.com), September 25, 2001.

Yo, ya'll niggas is crazy.

Nas is the realist muthafucka in the game ever PERIOD.


He can't fuck with nas, his organziation is filled with rappers who can onyl make gold records. And they only getting gold because of Jay-Z features. Nas is the fucking best rapper our right now and he been doing it for 10 years twice as long as Gay-Z. Gay-Z shoula retired after Hard Knock Life but he tried so hard to get muthafucking Shitie Sigel and Shitis Bleek on.

Them niggaz aint gangsta Jay-Z hasn't been in Marcy since 1997, Memphis is still in Marcy living in his mama's house picking roaches out of his bowl of Krasdale Fruit Rings and water. Nas still goes back to the Bridge same goes for the Mobb. The Bridge is real black people, them niggaz from Philly and Marcy are fucking jokes. Jadakiss chewed the shit out of Beanie's long ass freestyle on Empire Strikes Back. That shit went waaay too long and that shit was talking about nothing. Listen to Jada's shit

..and I aint making no more songs either so when I shoot him in his face dont' say that I'm wrong neither

...I hate Beans but fuck it kiss gonna eat

...I don't know where they found you son but since your pops aint around I'm gonna punish and groudn you son...

Comon that's blood raw nigga what did beanie say

I'm gonna sun Kiss like a soda

That was fucking weak that made me laugh the only thing redeemable in that entire corny freestle weaker than something my grandmother could write was

I know why Styles say he the ghost of this shit I can tell in your style he wrote most of your shit

Man Nas kills

Like my nigga Pac said Jay-Z is a corny sounding muthafucker with big dick sucking lips

-- Nasty Muthafucking Nas (masonmurder@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

Mason Murder - no doubt Nas eats Jigga for lunch in a freestyle contest - or almost any rhyming contest - but you have to respect that Jay-Z can write songs. Everything on the new album sounds like a single. Nas tracks sound like just that - tracks - some Primo beat on repeat or summat. I respect that too and sometimes that's what I want to hear but no matter who Jigga sticks his dick in you have to recognize that the man has got skills, just different ones.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.


-- RAMO Bettio (lilterror17@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

I liked Jay-z back in the day. . . When he dropped the STREETZ IS WATCHIN' LP . . . Now all of a sudden, he flipped and went straight 'POP'. Him and his corny ass H to the Izzo shit. Thats type MTV shit. They should air that on TRL along with Nsync and the Backstreet Boys. He lost his touch. On the other hand, Nas never lost it. . . he stayed street till the end. No one who knows RAP can ever say Jay-z can take Nas in a battle. Nas would and DID rip his ass apart. Anyone disagreein with that. . . Go listen to your P-diddy and Nelly cds cuz you obviously don't know shit about RAP. Read my shit I put down on August 30th on this website

-- AiDaN (aidan1023@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

Wassup Every1. Ok while I don't know the exact origins of the beef between Jay-Hov' and Nas I can tell you this....without a shadow of a doubt Jay-Z won the battle between the two. While both Stillmatic (Nas's dis track) and Takeover (Jay's dis track) were both hard as a teenage male virgin watching a porno any true and IMPARTIAL hip-hop fan KNOWS Jay-Z won. While I'm a devoted fan of both S.Carter and N.Jones lyrically Jay GAVE IT TO Nas!! Come with me on this 1, how bout Jay's line "you's the fag model for Karl Kani Esco as/ went from Nasty Nas to Esco's trash/ had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage/ fell from top ten to not mentioned at all/ till your body guard's Oochie Wally's verse better than yours/ matter of fact you had the worst flow on the whole f*cking song/ but I know/ the sun don't shine/ the sun don't shine....". And the screaming ad- libs in the background just put the icing AND THE CANDLES on the cake! It was great to witness a battle between two of raps most gifted emcees ever, either one has an legitimate claim to best lyricist ever. However I was shocked and disappointed that this battle between Jay and Nas was so 1-sided, I mean who won is not even DEBATABLE, Jay won. I thought it was gonna to be a close call, you know....the rap Clash of the Titans, the Ali/Frazier of hip-hop, one 4 the record books. I do hope Nas can rebound from this....this.....lyrical thrashing courtesy of Hova because I would hate to see Nas go out in an undignified fashion. He and Jay have both contributed TREMENDOUSLY to rap and I would like to see BOTH of them gracefully bow out when the time comes. Oh and one more thing, I wish everybody would get off Eminem's D*CK! Yes he's nice, yes he has skills, but don't OVERcredit just because he's a legitimate white rapper. He's nice on the mic but don't make it bigger than it actually IS, ask yourself this question, would you praise his skills this much if her were BLACK, would we even know who he is if he were Black....NOOOO. I mean I've seen this kat on the cover of so many magazines and praised on so many radio stations you would think he was the second coming of Rakim, hell the second coming of JESUS!!! I mean don't get me wrong, lyrically Eminem is sick, but he's not TERMINALLY ILL! He can't touch any of the hip-hop heavyweights such as Jay-Z, Nas, or DMX, he can't even f*ck wit Jadakiss on the battle tip so every just calm the hell down 4 a minute. I mean every1 was ridin' his dick b4 his SECOND ALBUM even dropped! Let duke earn a few more albums and let him earn his stripes b4 you start fitting his head 4 a crown ight, lets get over the fact that he's a WHITE rapper and just look at him as a RAPPER and judge him accordingly. Let's give him the credit he deserves as we do all other rappers, no more and no less. Peace and Love.

-- Anjasha (mailto:The%20PrinceofVA@aol.com), September 25, 2001.

I really have to confess I have no clue what the hell is going on in this thread anymore.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), September 25, 2001.

"LL,the greatest rapper of all time","The greatest rapper of all time died on March 9th", Fuck that,the greatest rapper of all time just dropped The Blueprint.

-- Brad Shelton (showdown30@yahoomessanger.com), September 26, 2001.

Fuck sales! Fuck mag covers! Fuck the press! illmatic, that's it, the only one, garbage since. For starters, yes, illmatic was a classic, but for anyone to say that it's the peak and we shouldn't expect nas to show growth from that, should go back to school. No, nas shouldn't try to outdo illmatic, but he should show some growth or originality in his material. unfortunately he has not. there are talented poets everywhere. mariah carey's a talented singer but i don't want to hear her shit. put out something i want to hear. fuck it, put out something YOU want to hear. i think outkast's 1st cd was classic, but i think they showed growth on their 2nd and 3rd cd's respectively. if you've peaked on your 1st cd, leave the business. there's nothing more you can give us. also, eminem 's shit is staightup wicked. white, black, whatever, the kid's got skills. i'm not really a fan of his voice but his shit is original, he flows over all types of beats, he's shown some battling skills, and he holds his own on every cd he's been on. yeah, he get's a lot of praise, but so did biggie, after 1 cd(annointed king of ny). yeah he's on all the mag covers. but he's still skilled enough to be on a rawkus records cd. sure, i think he get's more praise because he's white. but i don't buy the mags, i don't care much about the press, i don't really care who else is feelin him. but i know when i hear him on a track, i listen to the lyrics. the talent cannot be denied. he'd hold his own with just about anyone right now.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 26, 2001.

I know the debate is getting old, but gotta put my 2 cents in ... All you NAS dicklickers, realize what you write. NAS is NOW and for the last two years has been one of those studio gangstas who rocks the "bling-bling," lest we forget "YOU OWE ME" with Ginuine or "HATE ME NOW" with your luvable Sean Combs. Nas played himself out. Don't get me wrong, I like Nas. I thought he came with the diggs on Illmatic and It Was Written. His "Street Dreams" and "Black Girl Lost" and "I Gave you Power" and the Dr. Dre joint ... can't remember the name ... those were powerful, well written songs. But, everyone on this discussion has pointed to the heart of this debate ... what the fukk has Nas put out since? Love him or hate him, Jay-Z is a hit maker.

So, how do we define the title "King of New York"? I like that the discussion matured to arguing which rapper was better at what. Lyrically, Nas may be better. Changing up styles might go to Jay-Z. Nas has the freestyle battle, no doubt. Jay-Z is a better writer. Look at the whole. I don't know if you cats realize that Jay-Z writes like a quarter of the rap songs out there. He made the Neptunes famous. He wrote Dr. Dre's "Still D.R.E." He gives average rappers like Beanie Siegel credibility. Don't talk crews ... this is between Nas and Jay-Z. Jay-Z gets the nod. He may have a pop appeal. But, that's what gets him the loot. He brings it thug too. Shyt, "Big Pimpin" would be straight thug if all those white fraternity boys didn't get on the dikk. Y'all hear "If I Should Die" on the Life and Times ... vol. 2?

Some of y'all hate b-c of Jay-Z commercial/pop success. But, 2pac and Big was the same way. They had their gangsta hits, and then Pac would drop a "Keep ya Head Up" or "Do for Love" and Big had his pop songs like "One More Chance remix" and "Hypnotize". Bottom line, they still were gangsta. And, they both remain at the top.

Nas is good with a classic LP and a very good sophomore LP. Jay-Z has put out 7+ quality albums, including a couple of classics. Just because he's on MTV and is good at making 14 year old kids buy his albums too, don't knock his hustle.

NEone think this is all just a media hype ... to benefit both camps?


-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 26, 2001.

AND, whoever is on FABOLOUS "I wanna be the next MA$E" SPORT's cock, listen to more hip hop. He ain't bad, but he ain't worthy to be in this discussion.

AND to any of you Biggie-haters, are Y'ALL out your damn minds. Biggie is an untouchable. Stop using his name in vain.


-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 26, 2001.

Yo, I heard there’s a video tape for $150.00 dollars floating around of the supposed Gay Jay-Z squirting Nas’s wife in the face with cum. Something in accordance to Jay-Z tellin’ Nas to bow –down and out or he’ll be the next victim on the screen on the next Summer tour. Jay- Z saying he that if doesn’t, he’ll show up in the big screen. It’S on track 2 of the BLUEPRINT. Can anyone tell me how to get it on- line or address or downlaod it form somewhere. Even though I love Mobb Deep and my man is Prodigy, I give it to Jigga. He got this game locked.

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 26, 2001.

Why are people over looking the fact that Jay-z is not the only one with beef with Nas. All you niggaz need to cop that new Conmega LP and listen to Thun & Kicko feat. prodigy

You's a notebook crook, with loose sleave beef a backseat criminal that pass the heat to somebody that blast the heat Man, it sound bad on the pad, what happened in the street? revealing on the vinyl an analog outlaw alot of gats on your DAT, tape southpaw you thuggin' when the mic's plugged in barkin' through the speakers like you got no sense you wild on the two inch got your platinum plaques to prove it your music's been around the World movin' and it comes right back around on the ground, don't it? now it's time to face your opponent Infamous cling to this real shit, stuck where we started at fuck that, not because we have to, I want to I love this shit, the raw is what I live for to hear the sound of the crowd roar for more to see the niggas that can't pay rush the door whylin' on the dancefloor when they song come on, swingin' they fists, ready for war but it's a different type of effect, it's not violence they're just tranced by the advance tranked by the sound bank put under the drum, numbed off of our shit now who you rockin' wit'? them or us deep love or cheap lust?, QB 'll bust Infamous 'till we pass on you laughin' at the wrong shit, I take ac-tion defend my confedons nigga I write bombs that'll shatter your ambitions of bein' top dog as we move through the stage fog I need to bass more so I can taste it and make ya'll go AWOL and lose it, say no more, brace your delf, nigga it's on..

Verse 2: (Cormega)

(yo, back up yo..)

Who's tale you tellin'? are you frail or felon? were you makin' sales or watchin' niggas sellin'? you exploit niggas lives in your rhymes and then avoid 'em you never felt the moisture in the air of coke boilin' you never felt the razor scrapin' your plate your hands achin' yet you keep choppin' 'cause theres paper to make you never felt the power of invincibility clutchin' a gun like fuck it dun, it's him or me at your best you was a hand to hand no more than Three grams what the fuck you know about a Ki, man? you never hustled lets get it right, my nigga Y would've stuck you stop dry snitchin' in your rhymes, listen what you tryin' to do? help the guys in Blue? indight niggas so that can be another rhyme for you? you a parasite, you never had a life so you throw other niggas lives in your pad at night it's clever when you write it spoken well for a dude who never been indighted you know the deal mothafucka, the real make the fake niggas kneel and lose appetites when you taste niggas steel my rhymes are what it takes to get a deal and make it real I'm like Big, you can't replace the skill I laced it ill like Cocaine in Scarface's grill your mothafuckin' flow is basic, chill I'm Cormega, raw forever y'all niggas know my steez, I'm reppin' for Queens you minor league I'm big time like Mark McGwire's team your whole team is pussy, when I squeeze vaginas bleed my lyrics stay official I bagged up coke on dishes made of crystal your niggas, they won't miss you my Nickel-plated pistol - got Sixteen shots, you can take 'em wit' you to the coffin or DA's office surgeory, nurses screamin' "We lost him!" life suddenly divorced him, fuck it, it cost him if you want beef say no more brace your delf, nigga it's on, we spray Four-Fours, bitch!

Now tell me is raw next to Jay-z!!!!!!!!!

-- big O (redman6@rocketmail.com), September 26, 2001.

Another attack on Nas by Conmega.

In a jacuzzi flashin, splashin like a uzi rappin Much love for thugs, God bless B.I., askin "Whattup with Cormega?" Live niggaz keep askin The exhibition, flexin, throw my extra clip in Chrome bugotti VVS's, check it Niggaz talkin bout, how real they kept it on record Screamin out, Q.B.C. but don't rep it Am I my brothers keeper or a faggot in love with reefer? My Far Rock' niggaz would love to meet ya "Life's a Bitch" but shit gets deeper, fuck gold chains and sneakers I had dat, when cocaine was cheaper Yo, who this fake nigga soundin like me? You wanna be me, but can't see a thousand like me I'm loungin, you're like bookies on housin You see my team comin and your heart starts poundin You shook, getting paid off the book Niggaz jeal-ous, my LS is off the hook You see the Lex, you fake ass thug, you need respect or be another nigga that my fuckin heater wet My poetry is manifest, the words be correct My empire rise, now my enemies are vexed Yo Nature you finished, yo Nas you next

Yeah, clear my little man YouknowhatI'msayin, Nas It ain't nuttin personal, it's all business yaknahmsayin? You let your little faggot ass man come around me But my man got a few words he wanna say to you

Nature you fake cat, try to be down and got your chain snatched Took the shit, and your little brother's tape back Now you against the Mega star, puffin hundred stacks in a Lex, LS, doin no Escobar's When they crew speak, heard my team burn the wonder Five stars, Q.B. the Desert Storm The Mobb exclusive, check out the new kid on the next hit Find the illest kicks, play the strength, what the writer bent Hover from night to light, now push the tightest shit The tighest click, we're airtight Roll deep and wear Air Nikes, some to scare some the bear type but we rock mics and jams, like gats we cock twice Runnin with the pretty boys, bitches say that's not nice Straight out the 'Bridge, my DeLorean, showbiz And if you wanna sign me you can find me where the coke is

I'm a nightmare to "Street Dreamin" Nigga your whole crew is twenty-two's, my dudes street sweepin Prepared, never scared, ones to bolster Flex I'm ill, everything's real, ain't no special effects Yeah, bring the drama, I like the fuckin trauma A gladiator, rocking steel plated armor Yeah, you wanna step to me, you'd better bring a referee My name is 'Mega, y'all niggaz scared to death of me Yeah your man asked, I'm like a Columbian refugee Murder any nigga in sight, any day or night You see me in a jet black Lex, the coke's white Lampin on the Hill, that nigga Nature thought he ill I fucked his ass up like I'm Holyfield The Real Deal, Montana, drama for short Of course, yeah, the fucking boss Yeah, that nigga Nature talk about he takin my spot Took one punch to the face, and just dropped

It's over La, I don't even know why you even won't try to come at me This is Cor motherfuckin Mega You know I'm the baddest you fuckin faggot I'll fuck you up That's why my man took your fuckin gold chain and now he's wearin your shit in the projects, you're a fuckin bitch Knahmsayin Nas? You need to you need to you need to get a fuckin fireproof fuckin van that's how you come through the projects or niggaz'll burn your shit down Them niggaz is idiots, yo Talkin about "Street Dreams" rockin a pink ass suit What the fuck kind of dreams you niggaz workin with, man? Last crack y'all niggaz sold was y'all ass! You fuck with me, you're fuckin with the best, man, knahmsayin? But y'all niggaz ain't ready for fucking war Y'all ain't ready for the motherfuckin, the gun battles or the beatings on sight man don't fuck with me man, I got no more to say man trick ass bay-atches!

And let me say one thing Brooklyn has produce that best Rappers in the Game.

-- Big O (Redman6@rocketmail.com), September 26, 2001.

The most influential, most prolific, most incredible rapper of our time and maybe the greatest that ever lived is the unforgettable, unmistakable Tupac Shakur. Anybody that can’t understand that or does not want to admit it has problems accepting the truth or I just plain stupid. The proof is all around you. Every rapper you hear has taken or is using 2Pacs style. He has influenced so many. The man is dead and people are plays about his life. People are creating classes in respected colleges creating courses about his poetry and lifestyle. How many wifebeat shirt-wearing rappers came out after him and still rock that today? How many “thug” references can you hear and not think about 2Pac. How was it Nas, “thug life is mine”? Since when fool. Corny ass wanna be. Can act worth a shit. And what is that shit tattooed on your flabby stomach? God’s Son? Nas is so fake he makes me sick. Jay-Z’s Reasonable Doubt compared to Nas’s Illmatic would be a close tie, 52/48 for Jay-Z, but after that, Nas’s work is whack as hell with the same whack style while Jigga is always experimenting and expanding his. Jigga is everywhere. He’s even down with the King of Pop. Everybody knows greatness when they see it. What!

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 26, 2001.

Outcask AL...I agree that Pac is the best and can't none of these peeps touch him. Just about every hardcore rapper stole something form that man. And don't feed into that Jigga and Nas wifey tape; that's how rumors get started; I doubt if there is such a tape. And to whoever said Eminem is over rated, I agree with that too. He can flow with the best I give you that, but all of his songs about Karl Kaniff and all that nonsense makes his stock go down. Just like Jigga. He got some tight stuff out and I'd say he is in the top 3 right now but his stuff like Girls remix and and Izzo, that's not classic. Do you all think half these people on top would be on top if Pac was still here? Listen to "All Out" from Until the End of Time. When Jigga puts out something like that, let me know. And I'm not even a big fan of the Outlaws, but them boys floooow on there. And they call out Jay and Cash money. It's a little slick how they call out cash money, so I don't know if everyone will catch it, but they say Jay Z's name! What's up now? How come Hova ain't address them? And I never said Nas peaked; I'm just saying if u put out a CD with nothing but excellent songs, you can't match that. Jordan coming back. Y'all want him to win six more? If he just take em' to the playoffs, y'all goin hate, right? Come on now; just listen to my words before you jump to disagree. Qoolout of D.C. Holla P.S. The tightest line in all of this rap beef is Jada's about Beanie- "I got people in Philly, that been where u live/ F--- Scarface, my bullets hit women and kids." LOL

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 26, 2001.

Yeah, but Pavement were never street. Streets were Pavement, but Pavement were never street. Paving stones were street, but Pavement were counter tops and coffee tables and shit. You get too street, you get potholes in your belly. A notebook crook? So what, it's his job, paddywhack paperback gangsta rap. If it's not in the book, no one looks, tree in the forest, no paper, no one sees, no one hears, no once cares. You get too street, slightest tremor, dust in the air, you disintegrate. Speed garage, amphetamine driveway, ritalin street and you think you're it, but no: you're bricks, the bricks crumble into particulate matter.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 27, 2001.

ouch!! pac, the greatest? don't think so. best lyricist? hardly. if this needs to be addressed further, homework needs to be done...for real. illmatic, definately classic. can he put out another classic? doubtful. but damn, try at least!! oh, and uh, didn't keanu reeves have a college course studying his material. and he can't even act.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

much respect Frank!!

-- DonWas (donpaul@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

wut's d fucking big deal of wutever nas,prodigy,jadakiss do say... they're juz jealous of jigga's reign. if dey wana be d king of NY, then prove it assholes! i wud consider jay-z as the king of NY coz he's d 1 hus juz releasing albumz dat go beyond expectations. u jadashit juz dont know how 2 act. nas also. ur a fucking goddamn P.Diddy asshole follower.damn u rappers dat always dedic8 their fucking rap shit wid the departed 1s. wut da hell u r? r u a homo? u think BIG wil kip u up wid ur bullshit records? fuck ur company! damn all dos hu hate ROC... u juz cant compete wid tha muthafuckers of NY. JADASHIT, NAS POTATO, PRODIGY ASS...pieces of trashes of rap. JAY-Z---KING of 21st CENTURY NY!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Zendrine Santos (neo9174074612@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

F it; we just gotta agree to disagree. Pac's the best. You do your homework. I said that 1st Sept. 20 on this site. Now do it. You said the best rapper just put out blueprint? How is Jigga betta when he stole a rack of lines from Pac? What did he steal u ask? 1. "Stick to the script (MOB)" from his Dynasty CD. Stole that line form Pac and made a song about it. 2. "Not a demon, but a rose in the cement." 3. On the takeover, "I sampled your voice, you was using it wrong, you made it a hot line, I made it a hot song" stole that form Pac's hit em up "Yeah we took your beat, you wasn't rocking it right." 4. "If I should die;" got that idea from Pac. "Don't cry my iggas." Pac said "Don't shed a tear/I ain't happy here." Hova remixed it a lil, but us true Pac fans saw it. Come on. How can a man be better than the man he stole it from? I could go on, but do I need to? I said Jigga's in the top 3 right now. Who thinks Jigga would be on top if Pac or B.I.G was here? Don't lie to yourself. And don't fake like he is a thug 24/7. He was in a Mariah video in a hot tub. He got dissed by Pac's boys, recently, RECENTLY, (ALL OUT) but ignored it, but ain't ignore Nas and Mobb. And still givin Pac shoutouts. What is that? You got a case when u say Jay is better than Nas...maybe, but he ain't near Pac. Holla @ me. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

A. Nas' only "classic" album didn't go gold. B. When mentioning Nas' classic songs, don't forget "Affirmative Action," "Project Window," and "Blaze a 50." C. When showing how Nas HAS NOT stayed street, don't forget the actual song "Nastradamus" and that shit with Mariah Carey D. Funny how you're "commercial" when you're popular. Jay-Z is more of a businessman rapper. He has an ear for what's popular (which is why he only works with hottest producers at the time). I don't particularly agree with his constant switch from streets to pop, but overall it works, so more power to him. E. 2Pac is the greatest rapper ever because of what he has accomplished. All of those who say it's B.I.G, have no case since BIG has 1 pre-mortem album to go on (which wasn't that good in my opinion), and 2 post-mortem (with Born Again not being too impressive). 2Pac had 6 very successful, including the 5 times platinum All Eyez On Me, albums to his name. Plus several post- mortem, multi-platinum albums. He had the biggest impact on rap and his delivery was the best the game had ever seen. Like my boy said, PAC could talk about eatin Fritos and make you feel every word. He had the ability to touch hearts with songs like "Dear Mama," "Life Goes On," Keep Ya Head Up," and so on. Now lyrics are debatable. If you're looking for deep and meaningful, then look at PAC. If you're looking for witty tongue twisters, then BIG stands above the crowd. I love BIG, but people base his greatness solely on his potential. But who's to say he wouldn't have fallen off? It happened to Bone after their first two albums, and no one saw that coming. Who knew they'd go from Thuggish Ruggish Bone to If I Could Teach The World? I didn't. But they fell real hard. And the same COULD have happened to BIG. I find it unlikely, but possible. But Pac actually made multiple hot albums, collabos, appearances, and videos, before and after death. Plus, the majority of the hip-hop world sides with Pac, so you have to give him the nod for now. E. Speaking of BIG and PAC, was the song "Holla At Me" off of A.E.O.M. (disc2) about BIG or was it a general song? F. I think BIG's best song is "Kick In The Door" and I think the hottest line he ever spit was on "I Got A Story To Tell" - SO I'M LIKE BITCH YOU BETTER TALK TO HIM, FOR THE FIFTH PUT A SPARK THROUGH HIM, FUCK AROUND SHIT GET DARK TO HIM, PUT A PART THROUGH HIM, LOSE A MAJOR PART TO HIM - ARM, LEG... That shit is so clean! What y'all think? G. For that guy ridin Fabolous' nuts - Fabolous is extremely average. H. That's it y'all. I'm out da kitchen. Peace.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 27, 2001.

And another thing, I can't believe people point to the fact that Eminem is white to be the reason for his success. There are three, not just one, factors for Eminem's success... 1) he is white (the white 2Pac?????) and of course white adolescent males will put him at the top of the charts...but can Eminem control who buys his records, and puts him in their magazine? Don't hate Eminem, hate the dickriders... 2) Eminem is produced by arguably the greatest producer (i.e. Dr. Dre) rap has ever known (even though I like Timbaland's beats more). Plus he hangs with raps two biggest icons - Snoop and Dre... 3) This is the most important factor - Eminem has mad skills. The white boy is undeniably tight. Black, white, alien from Venus, he comes up with some of the tightest shit - even if he raps about fat lesbian ass being eaten by dead mammals' ghosts from the pits of hell. He can also produce (he's produced many of his songs) as seen on Jay-Z's "Renegade" where he also raps better than Jay does. And you can't tell me that his verse on Dead Wrong with BIG wasn't just as tight (maybe more) as BIG's two verses. To deny Eminem's talent is to do exactly what black rappers love to rhyme about - hate. If Eminem was Black, if Eminem was this, that, yadda, yadda, yadda, blah, blah, blah... None of that matters because Eminem IS white, and regardless, he is better than the great majority of Black rappers. Just because we started hip hop doesn't mean we are guaranteed to be better than all the other races. I give any rapper their due based on the music they put their name to. Fuck race, age, region, background, etc. If your shit is hot, then it's hot. And Eminem is the hottest. Hot as Jay and hotter than "I'm real good, but my albums don't reflect it" Nas. And he could hold his own with BIG and PAC. I guarantee it. So please, put down the proverbial Haterade, and kill all that Great White Hype nonsense.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 27, 2001.

Sorry, last thing... Eminem would EAT JADAKISS ALIVE. No contest. Not too many MCs could battle with Em, and two are dead. Jay, DMX, maybe Nas, maybe Beans are the only ones with a chance in hell.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), September 27, 2001.

I think…let me correct myself, I KNOW if 2Pac was still around, (in the physical) 3/4 of these rappers wouldn’t be brave enough to spit all that “thug-life is mine” crap.

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

Yo. have you ever noticed that no one in any artform is considered great until they are dead? If Tupac was still alive he would by no means be considered the greatest of all time so stop hoppin on is dick. I like alot of his joints and own a few of his albums but duke does not have lyrical prowess the be considered great. Biggie i'm a big fan but i can help but feel the same way if they were both alive neither would be called the greatest of all time. As far as nas and jigga are concerned. Its kinda narrow minded to call an artist that gets in the mainstream pop or a sellout, because they've reached worldwide recognition, because that's what EVERY hiphop artist is strugglin' for. As far as jay'z being on this bling-bling shit first of all if you peep his first album that nigga came out gate talkin' about money and the finer things in life so its not like its a new occurence he's always been doing that, and that is part of his style and that arrogance he has is what makes duke stick out. As a matter of fact everyone has coming out trying to be a fuckin thug until jigga came out talkin' about money and rocking ice and platinum, now (and check what i'm saying) everyone is on the platinum $ ice shit thinka bout it i would say that would make jay'z an innovator. As far as nas is concerned His first couple of albums were tight then when he got on this Firm shit he was trying to be a fuckin' gambino and fans didn't respond a so he fell off and after that the next couple of albums just weren't tight. Bottom line NAS needs to go back to the drawing board cause if he doesn't he'll fall completely off and go the way of afrikan bambatta, the juice crew and sugar hill gang...a pleasant memory. Oh yeah who the fuck keeps bringing up Rakim and being the greatest....come on we forget that wackass "The 18th letter album" and "Don't sweat the technique".. There's a reason he hasn't been out in years, duke just doesn't have it anymore.

-- trgdy (trgdy@yahoo.com), September 27, 2001.

who's that fag hatin on ra,dont you know that nigga got extreme lyrical respect.l respect a rapper who can do a whole album without talking the usual gangster rhetoric,lam a thug,bitches want me,l tote teks,l smoke blunts lam iced out.lam the best.l can talk shit and you cant touch me.thats the real reason lauryn hill was so nice.ra is who jay copied the name "the god "from, how about some originality.ra is on a whole new level and if you listened to the 18th letter you'll know ra has far much more depth and weight than yo average jigger or nas.that nigger is for the mature mind,not for people to take lightly or to bounce to in club.

-- wizard (whitneym89@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

If nothing else 'Pac was an poet, innovator, entertainer and creative businessman. Despite all his "thug life" proclamations and gangsta mentality, Tupac was neither a thug or a gangster. Intelligent, thoughtful and introspective, yes, but a hardcore gangster, no. He created that persona to sell records and to create an aura (remember he was a talented actor as well). Of course, getting shot in the head and doing time in jail enhanced his reputation and substantiated all his thug life posturing. Unfortunately it also made him antagonistic, paranoid and fiercely defensive. His best work usually came out when he just wrote from the heart, as opposed to his Death- Row/MOB/Thug Life stuff. Don't get me wrong, I still listen to that shit, because I love 'Pac and all of his work, regardless of what he is saying. His coherent confident delievery, dope beats and lyrical command are unparalleled. But a lot of folks never grasp the essence of Tupac because they get caught up in his whole charade as strictly a bad ass thug. Listen to the "Me Against the World" album. Look at the pictures on the insert. It's just Tupac, wearing glasses looking humbled, mature and thoughtful. No "West-Side" hand gestures. No S500, No excessive jewelery and no "posse". Tracks like "It Ain't Easy", "So Many Tears", "Temptations" and "Lord Knows" reflect the real Tupac Shakur, jaded, confused, angry, and remorseful,. Early work like "Brenda's Got a Baby" and "Trapped" are brilliant works as well. Fortunately, 'Pac left an enduring legacy for today's hip-hop generation. Many rappers are trying to emulate him. Unfortunately, too many of today's rappers are emulating the wrong side of Tupac.

-- M. Riv (silly6370@yahoo.com), September 27, 2001.

if that nigga mase came back hed reclaim his spot, he was by far the hardest niggga out with his first lp. yall think he was pop, what the fuck were 24 hours to livwe then? that shit was gutter, he had shit with big, the lox etc. he was very underrated, people need to give him his props and stop hating. as far as master p, hes not the best like some people have said, but hes up there, hes kinda fallen off. but u gotta admit u liked make em say unghhhh. and how you do dat there. ei

-- murdamase (matt78777@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

I went to buy the DMX tuesday and it wasn't there. I asked one of the hip hop clerks and he said it got pushed back cause Jay-Z had it locked. How's that for power. He can't be stopped. Let's see corny ass "thug life is mine" Nas do that.

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

In response to the ignorant person who called me a fag 'cause Rakim's the 18th letter sucked.........You are saying i'm a homosexual because Rakim's 18th letter album sucked. Hmmm very interesting, no wonder you liked his album your as is just as wack that album beee- ytch

-- trgdy (trgdy@yahoo.com), September 27, 2001.

Apparently this congression are filled with simpletons and imbeciles. I'm possibly the most educated and intellectual responser of all. A few of you need a spellchecker and editer. Now averted to the topic. Jay-z is nothing but a futile rapper, the "crap" he produces is absolutely ridiculous.

The society that believes his "spit" are concrete minded individuals. The best "battle" rappers are Eminem, Nas, Tupac and Biggie. Eminem and Nas would humiliate Jay-Z and ROC-a-fellah members in any aspect of the "Game". Beanie Siegel completely owned Jadakiss, but everyone knows that he's not pulling that on Nas.

I also strongly believe that Nelly, Petey Pablo, Coo Cal, P.Diddy are on top of Jay-z. Open the visual spheres, Jay-hova is Jay-HOMO.

-- Lou (The 14 year old) (mailto:negative%20syntax@aol.com), September 27, 2001.

WOW ... some of y'all really are adamant 'bout your shit. Check it ... the whole rap game is based on sampling ... since way back, hip hop has sampled jazz, funk, soul, and other hip hop. How are people up in this joint gon hate on rappers who use other rappers' words or ideas and put a new spin on it? That's what all rappers do. Check yourselves. 2pac the greatest ... arguably he is. The cat who be screaming about the G.O.A.T title is only given to dead people ... come on. Heads were claiming Big and Pac were the greatest while they were alive. And, you can't hate on BIGGIE because he died before putting out 5 or 6 LPs. You gon crazy. Big was eating when he was alive. And, his 2 post-death albums were excellent. He flowed better back then than the majority of the cats in the game now. And, who was saying Pac wasn't gansta????? Getting shot nine times, being up in jail, and running with cats like Suge Knight makes you soft? Get a clue.

Again, Jay-Z has pop appeal. He has thug appeal. He has collabos with the dirty south, the west coast, pop artists, anyone who's down. Don't hate a nigga cuz he's a Renaissance man. His versatility from "Nigga Who" with Jaz-0 to "Girl's Best Friend" with the sample of the James Brown "Nightrain" to "Big Pimpin" with UGK and Timbaland to some of the bullshit with "Mariah Carey" ... all that shows his versatility as a lyricist, rapper, artist, producer, and musician as a whole. His hustle to go reach everyone. He didn't go suburb. He brought suburbia to the ghetto.

I'd have a lot more respect for Nas if he didn't try to be so gangsta after he saw how niggaz were making loot by going MTV style. He switched styles like a little bitch. Did "You Owe Me" with Ginuine. Got the Destiny's Child teens in the video to make the 14 year old girls watch. He was the "Hot Boy" for Missy Elliot and wasn't even the one she was rapping about. Bottom line: HE SOLD OUT. He had to step to Jay-Z so heads would notice him again. Yeah, he's a great poet and lyricist, but that don't change the fact he sold out. If you gon claim to be thuggish ruggish, stick to your damn guns. Someone already noted that Jay-Z was all about the diamond clusters and cristal since album uno. While Jay-Z has grown as an artist and entertainer, Nas is switching up styles so he can get recognition.

I don't know. Y'all can argue til your ears bleed, but 2Pac and BIG were the two greatest. Who knows who's better? BIG never got the chance to have the longevity like 2Pac. And, Pac has some mediocre songs, even though most of his joints are blazing.



-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 27, 2001.

congression? hhmmmm. i think there is an age limit in here and you're obviously under. come back when you're 15.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

pac, love him to death. i think for many to try to understand the black youth of his era, they could very well look to him. i loved him when he first came out. he spoke of the hard times of black society, touched on the many cultural issues, controversial issues. he was extremely intelligent, and outspoken. though respected back then, he was not looked at as the 2nd coming of christ or anything. he was not mentioned in anyones top ten lyricist list back then. but pac was young and still growing. his changes in growth were reflected in his music, and his outspokeness in the media. did pac become a better lyricist in time. i don't really think so. but his subject matter changed. when he spoke of 'brenda's baby', we felt him. when he holla'd 'when my homies call', niggas was definately hollerin back. but when he went all out with 'thug life til i die', he attracted a whole legion of fans who were primed for that type of life back then. it was perfect timing. i don't think his lyrical prowess is what make him great. his lyrical ability i don't believe changed that much(he was always very skilled in that dept.), but i think that it's the changes in the man that placed him on top. he put his life before us in his music, and the media, and we felt every bit of it. his impact? better than no other. his lyrical skill? though good, is not great.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

M. Riv, sorry to say say but you're full of crap. OUTKAST, OUTLAW.

-- Alex Fortuna (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 27, 2001.

Eat a dick Fortuna. Alex is a fag's name.

-- M. Riv (silly6370@yahoo.com), September 28, 2001.

Riv, chill-out. I could go to your level and say “takes one to know one” but I won’t stoop. I said you’re stupid because your claiming in your statement that Pac was never a thug and he created that whole image because he was a poet and smart and this and that. I don’t know what your meaning of thug is to you but it doesn’t mean you can’t be talented, smart or a poet. Your surroundings where you live and environment at home make you who you are. Better yet, when you have time and the money, you should get all his Cd’s and documentaries, sit with a notebook and some Starbucks coffee and just listen to everything he ever wrote from beginning to end and you will see what we are already know. Idiot.

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), September 28, 2001.

(LOL I see peeps got beef up in here. And that's suppose to be the topic. Well, just keep it on the PC; don't take it to the streets.) First, I'm not the best speller, but Lou if you gonna call peeps out for there editing skills, try to spell "editor" correctly. And I felt what you were saying for a quick second, but then you said Nelly and some others I never even heard of, are above Jigga. I'm not the biggest Hov fan but come on. I may cite how the Outlaws punked him when they said "To my real iggaz stuck in the street game/Cause rappers like Jay-Z be pumpin' Kool-Aid through they veins/ Is it true what I'm sayin'?/ Slap your soft azz to the floor/And watch my fo-fo put peek holes through your door. I may laugh at those lines, but at the same time I will say Jay can flow. Second, to the person who said "all rappers copy," that's not true. And if it were, I'd say at least don't be so blatant about it. But I'm glad you acknowledge the fact that Jigga has copied. That was my point and he copied of the same man. Third, to the person who made a true point that made me think. You are right about how Bone kinda fell off and we really don't know if BIG would have because we only saw two CDs that he put together, so I feel you, good point. However, I gotta disagree about Eminem bringing it to Jada. Naw, did you hear what Jada said 2 Beans? He won with that one line, "I got people in Philly that been where you live/ F--- Scarface my bullets hit women and kids." Okay he ain't win with just that but as you can see, that's a tight phrase to spit. And remember, we have yet to see Em go at a real rapper yet. He is messing with the boy bands and pop stars; but I believe that would be a nice battle. Nevertheless, my money is on "J to the izzA D to the izzA, y'all is puz, don't want no gun plizz-ay" He said that to Beans too. And One more thing. Since we are talking about great rappers, I gotta say Scarface. I haven't felt him in a while, but he has put some meaninful work into this rap game. Holla, Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 28, 2001.

ok, this one has been run into the ground. let's get on to something else. who's the best rap group of all time? who's the best right now?

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

Best group of all time is EPMD. It could have been NWA, but they had problems as most groups do. Or you can take RUN-DMC just for what they did for hip-hop overall. As for the greatest rapper of all time I think people gave BIG that title prematurely. He is great, but did not have a chance to fulfil that title. LL first, followed by KRS One and then Jay-Z who will overtake them all. Longevity should count when making that determination. Don't count out Big Daddy Kane. Has anyone ever dissed him?

-- Lucious Martin (medumsxxy@aol.com), September 29, 2001.


-- J A (I2e13elde@cs.com), September 29, 2001.

best group af all time? maybe tribe. today? outkast i think. i need some input, i may be wrong.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), September 29, 2001.

best grupes is the st lunatics, kris kross and the lox cuz old school gotta keep it fa sho tho if you understand

-- matt (matt78777@aol.com), September 29, 2001.

yo i think Jay and nas are good rappers but i think hova is better because we really have not heard from nas in a minute.

-- (RobertEman@aol.com), September 29, 2001.

yo i think Jay and nas are good rappers but i think hova is better because we really have not heard from nas in a minute.


Big Kenny

-- (RobertEman@aol.com), September 29, 2001.

i think we argued almost every point there is with jay-z and nas. okay ... so we've moved on, huh? group ... or duo?

i wouldn't argue with EPMD, but i can't say the best of all time with certainty. as with jay-z and nas, there are so many considerations: quality of music, lyricism, beats, longevity, commercial success, underground respect, innovation. you gotta look at Wu-Tang. they started everything with "Wu-Tang Clan ain't nothin to fuck wit." they're the first group that continually put out solo projects while staying committed to the group. they brought r&b to the rugged. on any given track, they would have different emceez bringing down with different styles. just peep that "RZA hits" album, and you see how great their songs are, from "brooklyn zoo" to "you're all i need to get by" to "liquid swords" to "CREAM." but, then you look at the fugees with "the score" and with the unbelievable production of that album, lauryn hill's versatility, unconventional beats like the one on "Beast," and rappers that sing. "blunted on reality" is also a great album people overlook, with joints like "the temple" and "vocab." but, how about trend-setters like Diggable Planets who brought classic jazz to hip hop? their second release "Blowout Comb" is a very underrated album. but, as my observant colleague has already mentioned, A Tribe Called Quest for so many years were the fathers of modern hip hop, incorporating jazz beats and rock sounds to their music, a bonafide dj, and two exceptional lyricists. check their resume. who doesn't remember the "scenerio" remix with the Leaders of New School and a young Bus-a-bus?

obvious props go to the forefathers: NWA, Public Enemy, Run DMC, and the Beasties. True pioneers of their time, unwavering in their dedication to create a truly new art form, and just good music.



-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), September 30, 2001.

if this whole thing started off of jay calling proclaiming himself teh king of ny, then i dont know why everyone is making such a big deal about it. yes. biggie was and still is the best rapper ever, and when he once graced the mic, he then was the king of ny, but now that the king has fallen then some how the dynast must continue. and jay z is the well deserved heir to the throne. dont get me wrong though, nas is a very tallented poet, perhaps the next lyrically inclined version of the late great tupac shakur. but in any event, nas really has to take it easy and learn to live with the fact that jay z is the new phenomenon.

one bony

-- bony (caleb642@yahoo.com), September 30, 2001.

How can a man be better than the man he stole it from?

Property is theft.

I'm real good, but my albums don't reflect it.

Wagner's music is better than it sounds.

I'm possibly the most educated and intellectual responser of all. A few of you need a spellchecker and editer.

This is utter genius. I wish I'd written it.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 30, 2001.

By the way, what's Rammelzee doing these days?

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), September 30, 2001.

I was goin to leave it alone, but I gotta holla at Frank right quick. "Property is theft"? Huh? So if I kidnap your son does that make him my son? Nope. I know "Property is theft" sounded nice when you typed it, but that doesn't make it true. A man can't take something, and thus have whatever is attached to it (Greatness). Think about that one. And while we are on biting...I already pointed out Lou's "editer." As for the new topic, best group...I know many may disagree, but the Geto Boys had their time. I'm not a huge fan of the South, but the first few CD's they put out were hot. I can't lie. And that one with Big Mike, it had like 6 or 7 singles. Let me know what y'all think. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

I have to agree with Lou about the simpeltons in the room. Ya'll niggas need to calm down. But for real, I need to make a couple of pints: First, All ya'll trippin over on the Nas Diss song by Jay Z ( The takeover). That shit was alright, but that was nuthin compared to the Nas diss song called Thun & Kicko by Cormega and Prodigy!!!!! I think somebody quoted the line from the song earlier. Go back up and read that shit, then you'll see what I'm talking about. Third, all this talk about the best MC has been goin on but no where have I seen one of the nicest MC to ever touch the mic come up. For those who don't no, his name is Can-I-Bus. For anybody to say he is not the sickest, illesst MC to touch he mic would be a complete fool!!!! Just read this line : My spit is so cold, It'll turn to iclicles in mid-air adn slit your throat. And Lastly, that bitch nigga dissin Rakin needs to go back home and listen to his NSync Cd. Tis room is for real hiphop heads. If he has any hip-hop know how, he wouldn't even form finger to type up that bullshit. PEACE


-- Bwrecks (biruke@hotmail.com), September 30, 2001.

listen to all ya fake ass dumb niggas listen Jay-Z Is Nie Nas Is Nice but the album GheTtO FaBolOus is better than the blueprints, first of all jay-z has done better than that comon look at hard knock life that whole album is sick ya niggas need to stop hating on my son Fab because the nigga is nasty. Yeah i know he spells his name out too much but think about Jay-z always saying "Jigga" Its The R.o.C" or Roafella ya'll' spelling out his name is fabolous's trademark its what makes him, him thats what he does nobody hates on jay-z for always saying that so ya need to just cop that Fab listen to it and realize my son is better than Hova HoLLa Back At that cuz ya cant deny it.

-- FaBoLoUs SpOrT (fabolous1133@aol.com), October 01, 2001.

Tis room is for tearing up my heart into treads, heads. My room tis of tee.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), October 01, 2001.

And you know you all are allowed to go to other threads, if you want, like this one about producers.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), October 01, 2001.

The best group rappers were KRISS KROSS. A

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), October 01, 2001.

The best group rappers were KRISS KROSS. Anybody agree?

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), October 01, 2001.


-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), October 01, 2001.

yo, alex. i gotta agree with mriv on his comments about tupac. tupac spent his early years in baltimore and attended a school for performing arts. after moving to oakland, he hooked with the digital underground and was dancer with the group for crissakes. all his early shit was straight up ghetto poetry and social commentary; more like early nas. yo alex, just because a man is poor, black and livin' in the ghetto, doesn't mean he's a thug. i was born and raised on the south side of chicago and seen a lot of crazy shit. i ain't no thug. but i can be, and i certainly can walk into your little suburban mall and act like one. pac was an intelligent man who used his background to appeal to shallow suburban dudes like you who desparately want to believe that 'pac was some sort of gangbanger who hung out on front porches drinkin' fortys and plotting drive by's. it's a business, fortuna, and evidently you bought into it.

-- Djenkins (DREAL@EXCITE.COM), October 01, 2001.

Nas's Illmatic better than jay-z can ever do. Nas sold out and so did Jay, Jay was just much better at it. Nas sucks right now, but you know he's got the better ability at true hip-hop than Jay. Jay's got the serious skill at making good crossover hip hop that appeals to everybody, like biggie did, thats why he outsells everybody, but jay still raps way too much about the bling shit that we dont got!! (blueprint shows he's maturing though). So when it comes down to it, we're arguing separate things. I dont understand how anyone can say Jay-z is that great of a lyricist, his rhymes are aiight, but he is entertaining. when it comes to serious lyric quality, look at old nas shit, eminem, and jada (not including the solo, i was dissapointed)

-- hip hop fan (gazellefunk@hotmail.com), October 01, 2001.

sales mean nothing, nelly outsales everyone. he sold 7 mil with his first cd

-- matt (matt78777@aol.com), October 01, 2001.

so jay-z is startin to mature coz he is now singing heartfelt shit and less of the bling bling and violence,how old was pac when he started rapping that sort of shit,and how old is jay...? do your maths,then you'll know how far behind pac these so called dons are.

-- wizard (wizard@hotmail.com), October 02, 2001.

First, let me laugh at you young buck. Djenkins, I’m 31 years old kid. All these cats that you hearin on the radio makin platiums albums kid are all my age kid. I grew up with them kid. What you know about rap kid. What you know about where I live, kid? What thugs can’t dance? What thugs can’t be smart M Riv? Let me tell you something. I also represent thug life and also have talents you’ll never understand till you see me, but yet my situatuins at home and my friends that where in the same struggle of being held back, made me be out there thuggin and doing things that would classify me as a thug. I’m not fakin it, it’s real. Pac was there to show us we were not alone. I guess you had a good home too huh Djenkins. You had two strong parents who set you in the right direction and had your back at all times huh? I guess your neighborhood and school were real cool too huh? Yeah this whole rap shit is a business now. But it’s not by minorities kid, it’s ran by the other man that see us with the marketing potential to make a dollar and us to make ourselves be heard and make some money while we at it. And it’s up to us to know and feel what’s real or not, (ex.Remember your idol Vanilla Ice) Pac was one the realest. Suburban dude, yeah right, why you trying me like that kid. Peace.

-- OUTKAST AL (alex42na@hotmail.com), October 02, 2001.

it is not really a answer it is a statement hova can't be stopped nether can the roc as a whole nas a hater kiss a hater prodigty a hater this cat hated on pac for no reason when he was alive.

-- Artis Rivers (prettieboy02@aol.com), October 02, 2001.

Imbeciles, feeble-minded, simpletons, and incompetent individuals please edit your missives before you deliver them to the board. It's actually embarrassing to read your retorts and replies. Jay-Z allied with Eminem in "Renegade" in order to have an available battler to assist him on the bashing of other rappers. Eminem's ability to expose the lyrics are definitely superior to that of Jay-Z's. I personally believe that the only song that's excellent on that Blueprint is "Renegade", and the only reason it's excellent is because of Eminem. Roc-a-fellah is pathetic, thus roc-a-wear is pitiful. Please "cats" get a new wear, perhaps something worth more.

Anti-Jay-z Society. :)

-Lou (Bronx, NY, 14 years old)

-- Lou, Delivering the truth. (negativesyntax@aol.com), October 02, 2001.

We hate all of 'em newbie U.S. rappers over here in Europe. No matter if Jay-Z or anyone else. Run your i-mesh and check out: "Looptroop- long arm of the law" or: "Square One", "KC da Rookie" "Torch", "Shine2, "Denmarks finest", or if you wanna stay on your side of the world: "Dilated peoples", "Rasco", "Brand Nubian", "Berrington Levi", "AZ", "Mob deep", Phife Dawg".

~ Babu- checkt alles: http://www.eimsbush.de http://www.buback.de http://www.showdown.de http://www.dalooptroop.cjb.net

-- Babu (gaertner@kleinepflanze.de), October 02, 2001.

Lou-da-14-year-old, you have a nice thesaurus/dictionary. Or, your junior high has a good "word of the day" program. Chill out, son. This is an internet forum, not the international spelling bee championships.

Much love to all. Hip hop has become a great arena for thoughtful discussions and debate. Y'all heard Mos Def is fucking around with real rock-n-roll, right? He got two of the musicians from Living Colour, one of the guitarists from Bad Brains, and some dude from P- Funk. He's evolving this game, merging rock styles, and not like that Limp Boner shit. Evolution. That's what makes good hip hoppers great. That's what made Pac great. Nas de-evolved. And, Jay-Z hasn't evolved as much as I would have hoped. But, Jay-Z still puts out the diggs. And, if anything, he is a musical mind not to be fucked with.



-- A.Sol (deo_sol14@excite.com), October 02, 2001.

I just heard that All Out from 2pac's last one with the Outlawz. Pac came pretty tight, not so much lyrically, but with his infectous flow. As for the Jay-z diss, it was typical of West Coast thug-type rappers, instead of trying some clever disses, just went with the typical, he's a pussy so I'm going to kill him. I don't blame jay for ignoring that. Nas came at him with some real "battle" lyrics that deserved an answer and got one on Takeover (nigga sampled the Doors, real hot.) But don't sleep, Nas is mad tight and can deliver when he REALLY wants too.

Now for my local plug, check out that new Tech N9ne representing KC, Anghellic. Personally, I thought the first 1/3 of the lp was kinda hurt, but the rest was banging.

-- Big Steve (rowe@mizzou.edu), October 02, 2001.

Yo Frank White once said "Whats beef, beef is when your moms ain't safe up in streets". And I will tell one ting Jigga's moms definetly aint safe up in the streets, cause he got another thing coming to him messing around with the Queensbridge like dat. Nas has been keeping real since day one, not like Jay Z firing out all that commercial shit that us real hip hop peeps aint down wit. So fuck Jigga

-- Ldotsfinest (tplaza@uwo.com), October 03, 2001.

I understand your point Steve, but I still disagree. If Jigga gonna call out Nas and cuz from Mobb Deep, then he needs to address the others too. I don't even no why he came at Mobb, what did they do to him? If they deserved it, then the Outlaws should have got it too; when Pac was alive, he should have got it too. Even the true die hard Jay-Z fans have to admit that he punked out right there. If everyone is dissing you, you gotta leave them all alone or go at all of them. Give them half a bar and some more....I'm a Jay-Z fan, but he punked out.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001.

all i can say is jay z won this one in my mind. i didn't even know what was going on when i first heard his song, but i just knew he ripped it. i had to do my research and even knowing what everyone else said jay still got it. i can't stand to hear people say that all he talks about is money and hoes cause those be the joints on the radio and if people start judging rappers solely on radio joints, everybody practically sucks (to me at least). the tight thing about jay z is he put's it out there and he don't fake. calling mobb deep ballerinas and showing pics...damn! and about what he said about nas i gotta agree. nas is a poet but i got every cd he put out on blind faith after illmatic and he disappointed me. i feel like jay told it like it was outta 4 cds ill was the best one was okay and the other two sucked. but he didn't fake & try to claim everything nas put out was trash cause then i couldn't agree... so basically jay has my respect. i f*cks with jadakiss though and i only have beanie's first cd but that wasn't as good as i'd hoped, so oh well. all i can say is nas can rap when he feels like itbut he ain't that business savy and jay z CAN RAP as well and he's business savy. and ain't that what it's all about?

-- maria (mzmaria18@aol.com), October 03, 2001.

Jay has so many hova-haters he can't spend his time addressing every single one of them, personally, I feel that most of the outlawz work is 2 steps from being garbage and they are only hanging off pac's legacy. Nas v. Jay has something worth writing, I don't know what all the mess is with Mobb Deep, but again, talent wise, they are worthy of a return from someone like Hov. If he answers the outlawz, than he has to answer everyone, and just some of the underground stuff I hear shows he has way too many enemies to go after, it would take a whole lp.

-- Big Steve (rowe@mizzou.edu), October 03, 2001.

This is out of control. If anyone needs an answer to who is the best lyracist of all time. Just listen to the radio.. You will hear his lyrics, samples, beats, chorus' rhyms and what ever else an artist uses in a song. Im talking about NOTORIOUS. Every artist dropping full lengths or singles uses something from BIGGIE. May it be suttle line chorus or an entire verse he is given love by every artist whether east coast or west coast. I AM NOT A HATER AT ALL, NOR DO I HAVE THE CREDENTIALS TO ACT LIKE ONE, im just stating what I hear on the radio and everybody's cd's.

-- fill more (fillmore@yahoo.com), October 03, 2001.

I'm upset that no one here has called me a homo. My wrist is more flexible than anyone's on this board.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), October 03, 2001.

If I thought Jay selected not to address the outlawz because he didn't have the time, then I'd say "okay." However, that wasn't it (in my opinion). Now I know I may be wrong, but I feel that it was just a "punk" move. Who else is beefing with Jay? It's not a lot or like it's the whole east coast; it's not too many. They called him out on hit em' up when Pac was alive, and Jigga said nothing; that new song (All Out) isn't the first time they dissed him and won't be the last. Even if they are weak right now, you gotta give em there dues for that Makaveli CD. They flowed on like 50% of the tracks. So I don't buy that about them not being big enough for him to address. Everybody and there mama got Makaveli, they know who the outlawz are; and even if they don't Jay can still step to em. Remember when Pac called out Chino XL? That was the 1st time I had heard of Chino. Pac ain't care if cuz was underground or not; he dissed Pac and Pac came back at him. Bottom line is if a man call you out on a Multi- Platinum cd, (any Pac cd)then they are known. They are known enough for you to bring it to them like they took it to you and like you took it to Nas and Mobb Deep. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001.

2 pac is absolutely the greatest rapper, emcee, entertainer what ever you want to call it of all time. he style was so versatile, he put out joints that everyone could relate to from the west, the east, down south, midwest no matter what the location is. and for all yall cats that is talking about he is not lyrically great or his delivery on some joints are weak, keep it real. this nigga even after dre left death row was spitting some ill shit on some wack azz beats produced by suge k. check out makaveli and until the end of time "i was raised by thugs, schooled by killas, learned my mathematical skills from real drug dealers..." come on now listen to this cat. pac could have made a whole lp without any beats and just laced rhymes and niggaz still would have been feeling it. even mos def said this niggaz talent can't be matched, just present this nigga with a important topic and he can assemble a whole lp on that topic and trust me it will go PLATINUM. also, niggaz out now is trying to copy my niggaz style, lyric wise and appearance wise. i got much respect for nas but pac gave it to him on an undergroud track "wuz up wit this nigga nas tryin to ride like THE, wit yo false gangsta ways you aint take five like me"! pac also gave birth to this whole thug persona niggaz try portray: JA RULE, LIL WAYNE, C MURDER, DMX the list goes on. one last comment all this open beefing now between niggaz was established by pac believe it or not because before him niggaz made comments on other emcees, but never had the nuts to say the names, but on hit em up and hit em up 2 pac unleashed fury on all the notch eastcoast cats and didn't sugar coat it. just realize this nigga was and still is today the real deal.

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), October 03, 2001.

first off, lou youre a fag. second, did yall hear that boy nellys new jam number 1. he went after jay z on that song, if u aint get it then u aint get it. he said" i am number one, 2 is not a winner and three nobody remembers" Hes talkin bout jigga, cuz jigga sold 2nd most. basically nelly said jigga aint shit and jigga still aint respond. Then he went at mobb deep when he said" man im tired of people judging whats real hip hop, be the same mothafuckas who album flop" in reference to tha song quiet storm. "cuz its the real...hip hop, hip hop. Well nelly is puttin it down like a hefty bad and a soda. im out.

-- matt (matt78777@aol.com), October 03, 2001.

Everyone in the world is repping hove right now and fair comment money's hot but come on, brothers given me personally about three traks per album since his first two and that straight is not value for money, o.k i probably got everyone saying ' but the brothers moving units' my answer to that is your right but the argument is not about sales it's about battle raps one of the original art forms in hip hop now all the artists which are involved in battles with jay are making a hip hop fiend like me sit up and listen again come on now the artist that are involved ( prodigy of mobb, nas, beanie, memphis, jada,etc)are all ahead of ther game and to me all appeare to be trying to not let there borough's be shitted on by nobody which i respect plus any of us in tv land couldnt battle any of these m.c's anyway so lets sit back and enjoy the secret wars mega issue in hip hop today ,we have all said mc such and such is nicer than my man now this is a reality lets let it play out hopefully on long play without no extra clips...

p.s pac once put out a flare against mobb deep. pac was supposed to be the greatest m.c that ever lived.

-- joey da negro (j_bacchus@hotmail.com), October 04, 2001.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SHUT UP. Now we're dragging Nelly into this? What is going on here?

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), October 04, 2001.

Well technically Matt, By Your logic Nelly would be dissing himself as well, considering the fact that Eminem was number 1 in sales, not Nelly. But your conclusion was pretty much unfounded to begin with.

-- Big Steve (rowe@mizzou.edu), October 05, 2001.

For everybody sayin all this shit about 'Hova won this round Kiss won this round...' etc, your wack. Keep it on wax? shut up what you listenin to these rappers evry cd "im hard dont fuck wit me im a drug kingpin im a hustla etc." back it up or shut the fuck up. If u say u gangsta then be a gangsta. Whos gonna put out these cds make millions of $ then turn bitch and start writin disses. I know it's buisness but if no shit comes from this all these nigas is fake ok.

Finally since it's a buisness ya cant blame them on the other hand for makin some teny bopper mtv shit. Why not? If u struggled ur whole life u a true thug u werent shit and some label exec comes with millions of $ if you put out some club shit which of u is gonna say "well i betta not cause the real niggas aint gonna feel me no more". Then THEY AINT REAL! whats real is makin the best of yourself not givin a fuck and doin ur thing. Ya cant blame Nas this guy drops a true CLASSIC Illmatic and (barely) goes gold and sees some1 else in a video dancin around goin multiple times platinum. Anybody in here seriously: who wouldnt go do a song with Ginuwine Sisqo Destinys Child. WHOEVER! and make some $ who give a fuck you bein true to urself and ur hood u give a fuck what some forum mfuckas like all us here is doin.

PS- And that kid lou is staright a dickrider.

-- j sidway (js51138@yahoo.com), October 05, 2001.

Listen amateurs...When Rappers drop their first album..most cases it's usually hot...got they put all their heart, soul and street knowledge into it. After they have made it, they usually make it more commercial and radio friendly to make the dough..having lyrics is one thing..but being able to capitalize and make money is another thing..and that's all jay-z is doing..Nas tried it and it flopped as u can see in Nastradamus..Only a few rappers can keep it gutter and still make money, for example biggie and 2pac..nas smokes too much weed and so he's losing brain cells and he need to lay it up..spend a month or so in the streets...feel that fire that he had when he just started and blaze again..When you already have all you ever wanted money, fame, girls...you start to slack...Pac is the only i've seen taht don't get caught up in dat shit...holla at me youngbucks

-- (rm35924@aol.com), October 05, 2001.

Don't be a fool cuz. Of course they gonna keep it on the wax. You think these rappers gonna trade in all their money and freedom for jail? None of us (except you) expect Jay to really step to Nas with an actual gun. None of us believe that Jada will have Beanie popped. Dogg, they are selling records, giving us what we want. If you want some gun play then YOU start some gun play. Then you turn around in your second paragraph and contradict the first one. Duh. I can't even believe I'm addressing this nonsense. Second, on another note....peep the rappers who can't touch their 1st cd......DMX, Bone (maybe), Ice Cube, Scarface (his early stuff),Puff, and Snoop. Anybody else? So don't just bring it to Nas. Holla. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 06, 2001.

yo i didnt say i expect jigga to bring some gunplay into it. I doubt hes even touched a gun in atleast 10 years. My point was not that they should do that, we obviously dont need another tragedy like pac and biggie. But at the same time it sounds like you are sayin you KNOW theyre all fake and wont do nothin and we all fallin for the shit. I dont fall for it.

I know Prodigy especially needs to do somethin or he aint gonna be makin no $ after that balerina shit at summerjam.sta and I know jigga isnt. Noone needs to die but something bigger than "Fuck you!" "no fuck you!" "oh yeah well you a bitch!" needs to go down for anybody involved in this to have anymore cred. For example Cormeaga fucked Nature up in a fight in QB a few years ago and that jus shut down Natures cred and took another wannabe out of the buisness. No one needs to lose their life thats awful.

I wasnt contradicting myself that was a different point. Im sayin any real thug who grew up poor and speaks the truth in his music aint gonna turn down goin some $ if he went through the struggle. But now the struggle has been mixed with the tough thug shit and is just fucking up rap. PERFECT EXAMPLE: Fabolous. He got skills but he sold out. I dont blame him but he needed some heart on that album and he didnt show any. Ill respect someone more for makin a radio friendly song then sayin hes hard on the album when hes not. Not that most give a damn about anybody but dead presidents. Lets rep the hood thats great but if u got so much love for it why not give some of that money back and help the projects. Thats what I jus dont like period.

And dont talk down to me saying why dont I bring the drama. I dont pop shit on records and make millions off gullable people who buy into it. You jus misunderstood what Im sayin. I love hiphop and all, but its so diluted with fakers talkin shit to noone in particular, but suddenly when shit goes down they get quiet.

-- jsidway (js51138@yahoo.com), October 06, 2001.

I know Prodigy especially needs to do somethin or he aint gonna be makin no $ after that balerina shit at summerjam.sta and I know jigga isnt.

My bad i meant jigga is gonna be makin $ off this shit.

-- jsidway (js51138@yahoo.com), October 06, 2001.

First of all, if you felt that I was "talking down" to you, my bad. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding, like you said. Second, you said, "whoever says 'Jay/Jada/etc. won this round or that round' is wack. Well, I said Jada won 1 round and I felt the need to address your comment. Moving on, I feel that if they beef anywhere but on CD's, they are punks. If they wanna be ganstas and fight people and all that, then they are in the wrong place. The music biz is not here to do anything but entertain and make pockets fat. If someone gets their feeling hurt on CD and they can't respond on CD, but wanna fight it out, they are childish. If they wanna be street, then they can stay in the street and out of the studio. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 06, 2001.



-- Playa Hater (rap4ever@sces.net), October 07, 2001.

This is Jay-z response Nas should learn to keep his mout shut next time and respect the king that has taken over this rap game!!!!

Jay-Z] R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit Memphis Bleek, we runnin this rap shit B. Mac, we runnin this rap shit Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit

The takeover, the break's over nigga God MC, me, Jay-Hova Hey lil' soldier you ain't ready for war R.O.C. too strong for y'all It's like bringin a knife to a gunfight, pen to a test Your chest in the line of fire witcha thin-ass vest You bringin them Boyz II Men, HOW them boys gon' win? This is grown man B.I., get you rolled in the triage(?) Beatch - your reach ain't long enough, dunny Your peeps ain't strong enough, fucka Roc-A-Fella is the army, better yet the navy Niggaz'll kidnap your babies, spit at your lady We bring - knife to fistfight, kill your drama Uh, we kill you motherfuckin ants with a sledgehammer Don't let me do it to you dunny cause I overdo it So you won't confuse it with just rap music

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

I don't care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews You little FUCK, I've got money stacks bigger than you When I was pushin weight, back in eighty-eight you was a ballerina I got your pictures I seen ya Then you dropped "Shook Ones," switch your demeanor Well - we don't believe you, you need more people Roc-A-Fella, students of the game, we passed the classes Nobody could read you dudes like we do Don't let 'em gas you like Jigga is ass and won't clap you Trust me on this one - I'll detach you Mind from spirit, body from soul They'll have to hold a mass, put your body in a hole No, you're not on my level get your brakes tweaked I sold what ya whole album sold in my first week You guys don't want it with Hov' Ask Nas, he don't want it with Hov', nooooo!

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit B. Sigel, we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Freeway, we run this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

I know you missin all the - FAAAAAAAME! But along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your brain Nigga; you a - LAAAAAAAME! Youse the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads Went from, Nasty Nas to Esco's trash Had a spark when you started but now you're just garbage Fell from top ten to not mentioned at all to your bodyguard's "Oochie Wally" verse better than yours Matter fact you had the worst flow on the whole fuckin song but I know - the sun don't shine, then son don't shine That's why your - LAAAAAAAME! - career come to a end There's only so long fake thugs can pretend Nigga; you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad You scribbled in your notepad and created your life I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor (Me, that's who!) Then I heard your album bout your tec on your dresser So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song And you ain't get a corn nigga you was gettin fucked and I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing Use your - BRAAAAAAAIN! You said you been in this ten I've been in it five - smarten up Nas Four albums in ten years nigga? I could divide That's one every let's say two, two of them shits was due One was - NAHHH, the other was "Illmatic" That's a one hot album every ten year average And that's so - LAAAAAAAME! Nigga switch up your flow Your shit is garbage, but you try and kick knowledge? (Get the fuck outta here) You niggaz gon' learn to respect the king Don't be the next contestant on that Summer Jam screen Because you know who (who) did you know what (what) with you know who (yeah) but just keep that between me and you for now

R.O.C., we runnin this rap shit M-Easy, we runnin this rap shit The Broad Street Bully, we runnin this rap shit Get zipped up in plastic when it happens that's it Freeway, we run this rap shit O & Sparks, we runnin this rap shit Chris & Neef, we runnin this rap shit {*"Watch out!! We run New York" -> KRS-One*}

A wise man told me don't argue with fools Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who So stop with that childish shit, nigga I'm grown Please leave it alone - don't throw rocks at the throne Do not bark up that tree, that tree will fall on you I don't know why your advisors ain't forewarn you Please, not Jay, he's, not for play I don't slack a minute, all that thug rappin and gimmicks I will end it, all that yappin be finished You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep Don't make me expose to them folks that don't know you Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jew-els Twinkletoes you breakin my heart You can't fuck with me - go play somewhere, I'm busy And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga You only get half a bar - fuck y'all niggaz

-- Alby. C (Delicious_star_69@Hotmail.com), October 07, 2001.

listen to all ya fake ass dumb niggas listen Jay-Z Is Nice dont Get me wrong but the album GheTtO FaBolOus is better than the blueprints, first of all jay-z has done better than that comon look at hard knock life that whole album is sick ya niggas need to stop hating on my son Fab because the nigga is nasty. Yeah i know he spells his name out too much but think about Jay-z always saying "Jigga" Its The R.o.C" or Roafella ya'll' spelling out his name is fabolous's trademark its what makes him, him thats what he does nobody hates on jay-z for always saying that so ya need to just cop that Fab listen to it and realize my son is better than Hova HoLLa Back At that cuz ya cant deny it.

-- FaBoLoUs SpOrT (Fabolous1133@aol.com), October 08, 2001.

Ok lets see here. I've sat and read most of the responces to this and I got to say damn. So imma address all of this:

Jay-Z: Truly the King of N.Y.........4 now.

Nas: He'd regain throne if he just dropped something (please) the streets are thirsty.

Eminem: HE'S WHITE?!? NO-FUCKIN'-SHIT! Get off his nut sac he's a bomb ass rapper. Just 'cause he can rip 50% of the black- "jiggy" rappers out right now, dont hate. Just let it go.

DMX: (My favorite except 4 when he droped "and then there was x..." but he gots "the great depression" now so it compensates) He should definently be in this arguement....and beleave me, he will soon.

Prodigy: He's tight but to be against Hova is a no-a. Wouldn't you think he'd learn his lesson after "hit em' up"? LL COOL J: I'm sorry but the gets nuthin' but props in every thing he does. And he truly deserves to be the G.O.A.T. 15 years, all platinum, own lable, clothing brand, and not to mention dope-ASS lyrics.

Canibus: Go home.

Method Man: Another tight-ass rapper that nobody seemed to mention. So I'll do it...the muthafuka got skillz.

Nelly: Who the he hell let this guy in the conversation?

Master P: All I got to say is "make em say unhhh" WHU DUH FUH? Get that shit out of here.....imeadietly!!!!

Fabolous: To address that I'd like to say a quote from Jay-z: "He's alright/but he's not real." He's good for now but to be on this level, come back with more credentials. And watch, if he gets just a little bit futher in status people are going to give him the "gangsta-pop" vibe just like they do to Jay-Z.

So in short, Nas please we need you asap. Not downing Jay or anthing, but just don't go out like that. But they did rip eachother though. I'm out. One.


P.S. Does anybody feel me when I say Scarface did NOT deserve best lyricist of the year. He's not real bad or anything but......................no.

-- Rok (Rokwila2002@yahoo.com), October 08, 2001.

Jay-Z is a PoP rapper period! He may recieve more commercial success but is that how we measure greatness? After all Hammer, Vanella Ice, and Young MC sold a lot of records but in the minds of most will never be considered great Hip-Hop artist. Nas is exactly that; an Artist. Nas on each album has grown, changed, experimented and expressed new ideas. Jay Z in my opinion has remained static in his lyrical concepts. I ask you how many times can you listen to "I'm the best, I sold crack, I got ice and nice cars" Conceptualy Jigga could never see Nas, use of vocabulary; Nas is much more articulate, delivery; hands down goes to Nas, Tracks go to Jigga, comerecial appeal goes to Jigga. What I have found is that most fans of the music Like Jay-Z because he has made alot of money; but I ask what dose that do for you? In the end it comes down to this Jay is Probably the greatest "Slick Talker" in the game and Nas is a natural born "Street Poet" saying Jay Z is the best based on the fact that he has sold more records than Nas is like saying Michael Jackson is better than Prince, or Kenny G is better than Wintin Marsalas, or Britney Spears is better than Whitney Houston. Nas's work has increased in depth and substance while the general public has remained shallow. In order off 1 - 5 here are my greatest; Rakim, KRS-ONE, Nas, Public Enemy, Jay-Z.

-- (mc_365@hotmail.com), October 08, 2001.

Never was a big Nas fan. Mobb Deep/Capone N Noriega/QB is my shit. Jay Z would not be here if Biggie and Tupac and Biggie still were, read that again if you must. I think Nas and Meth to an extent tried to go that route but it wasn't really them. Puff Daddy/ Nas collaboration was wack. Jay Z raps to 11 year old white girls mainly.

-- ODH (litlelordfntlroy@scubadiving.com), October 08, 2001.

yeah we all know Kweli shoulda won that lyricist award

-- Thix (tylahix@yahoo.com), October 09, 2001.


-- Robert Fowler (Rlfowler99@hotmail.com), October 09, 2001.


-- Robstradamus (Rlfowler99@hotmail.com), October 09, 2001.

For all y'all bitches who aint know, Hov is on top of the game right now. Shit when the last time Nas ol' fucked grill having ass came out with a fucking hit? Illmatic was an tight joint, but it aint got shit on the Roc. And can't nobody fucking contest me on that shit. Nas' career has just gone to shit and his pussy ass needs somebody to blame for it! Tupac is and will still be the greatest of all time. Second, comes B.I.G., then without a doubt comes HOVA. That gay ass Oochie Wallie or whatever you wanna call it just prove that this nigga needs to improve his fucking style. I aint dissin Nas' talent cause he has lyrical skills. But he needs to stop being a bitch and step up to the fuckin' plate and stop hatin cause Jay Z has the balls to go for shit and keep it poppin. Fuck what ya heard. Like the song Takeover says, R.O.C.- they runnin this rap shit.

-- Melissa Thomas (foxxee_brown@blackplanet.com), October 10, 2001.

Hey, there's a lot of passionate hip hop heads out there and it's cool that everyone represents their opinions in such a thoughtful and intelligent manner (for the most part). I agree that Pac and Biggie rank #1 and #2 as far as all time MC's go. After that, a lot of names have been mentioned, but no one has thrown Big Pun in the mix. I'm a huge Pun fan and think he had a remarkable combination of lyrics and flow. His wordplay might not be as good at Biggie's but he's in the same league. What do ya'll think of Pun?

Hey yo it's all love, but love's got a thin line and Pun's got a big nine, respect crime but not when it reflect mine The shit I'm on is wrong but it lasts long Pull a fast one, then Pun'll wake up, with the stash gone I'm mad strong, and my cream is fast Smoke the greenest grass, my bitch got the meanest ass and a taste legit, I don't have to waste a whole case of Crist' All it takes is my pretty face and my gangsta wit Lace the click, cause we all share It's all fair like love and war, thug galore with the long hair Big Pun, Pun the name that makes the kids run Like spelling murder reverse it deliver redrum Come one, come all, if you wanna brawl I'm the mighty Thor clotheslining motherfuckers like Steven Segall Cause all you gonna get, is your ass kicked or up in a casket That's it (that's it?) That's it

-- Greg Rock (grock@excite.com), October 10, 2001.

Robstradamus!! Holy shit, I want that to be my rap name.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), October 10, 2001.

Well, if you ask me, none of these niggaz will ever amount 2 my nigga Pac. Not just Jay, Prodigy(Balerina boy), Nas, Beans, or Kiss. I'm talkin' 'bout N-E rapper out. But, about this beef, I got different takes on it. First off Nas fell off after Illmatic (Which never went gold), and even if your a Mobb Deep fan, lets face it, Mobb Deep was never shit as a clique, let alone Prodigy goin' solo. I feel Jigga will rip Prodigy 2 fuckin' shreds lyrically. And when it comes 2 album selling capability, Nas ain't got shit on HOV. Overall Jay-Z wins. But, lets not forget about how Pac verbally bitch slapped his ass on some of his tracks before his passing. Mobb Deep responded 2 Tupac. I believe Nas did too. What da fuck was Jay's problem? And recently on Pac's latest CD Until The End Of Time, Da Outlawz dissed him on a track called All Out. Jay-Z still has been silent about dat shit. But he's quick 2 answer 2 N-E other beef. Obviously Pac is da real winner here becuz none of deeze coward muthafuckaz wanted drama wit' Pac or hiz lil' rydaz da Outlawz. Oh, Beans and Jada, dats Little League beef. I'm more interested in the DPG DEathrow beef myself, not 2 be sleepin' on my niggaz. ONE

-- L.D. (uylssesk@aol.com), October 10, 2001.

Yo let me kick it to all yall, none of yall know. Nas will Kill Jay'z all he rhymes about is cars and jelewry something rich people can only relate to. And yall go out and buy that garbage. His flow is the same about the same thing. But since he's on MTV and on everything, you except him and like him. Nas is a real lyrists a poet his vocabulary is deep. Jigga cant make songs like Nas, He would fail. Nas can do both he's versatile. But people hate on him because he real, and he dont change for yall he doing his thing he never fell of his lyrics are still there. That CD Nastradamus wasn't really nothing but the other half of his double Cd that suppose to came out with I Am. Stillmatic will prove all of yall wrong. Do yall really listen to rap, it seems Jay-z brainwash all yall. Wake up. Jay-z isn't real he just out trying to make money and he fool all yall. Check the Wu album, they called him a cat in the hat ass rapper. Mother goose nursery rhyme rapper, he wearing suits spinning on his big ass lips. They call him a RB rapper said that was what he was trying to turn it into Rapping Bullshit. All yall like is commercial ass rappers so whoever say Jay-z better than Nas FUCK ALL YALL 4 REAL. MY NIGGA NAS IS NICE AND ON TOP OF HIS SHIT. HOLLA!!!!

-- Mike A. Johnson (vabachelor2001@yahoo.com), October 11, 2001.

I hope I didn't see someone say Big Pun was in the same league as Biggie? My eyes! My eyes! They burn from the blasphemy!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 11, 2001.

Who is the greatest MC of all-time?

Invariably the reply to this question would be one of the following: Tupac, Biggie, Nas or Jay-Z. However, in a world where both Biggie and Tupac are dead, and artists such as Nas and Jay-Z are systematically sacrificing their artistic integrity with "back-to- back LP's that sound the same", there is an artist who outshines them all.

"The perseverance of a rebel I drop heavier levels It's unseen or heard, a king with words Came out to hustle but I seen street dreams deferred Dark spots in my mind where the scene occurred"

Indeed, ever since he brought us the urban sonnet "i used to love h.e.r," Common has captivated fans of true hip-hop with his exceptionally poetic lyricism.

Mindful of retaining ones roots in the face of commercial success, Common, much like The Roots before him, is on a mission to achieve greater exposure so as to bring real hip-hop artistry to a market firmly in the grip of the sample-laden, commercially motivated, "Jiggy Thug" era.

"I'd be lying if I said I didn't want millions More than that money saved I wanna save children Dealin' with alchoholism and afrocentricity A complex man drawn off of simplicity Reality is friskin' me This industry'll make you lose intensity The Common Sense in me remembers the basement I'm Morpheus in this hip-hop Matrix exposing fake shit"

-- C. Ross (CRoss@hotmail.com), October 11, 2001.

Yo. Much love out to all y'all. There is finally someone with some sense up in here. When y'all talk about "street poets" and deep ass lyrics, y'all got to recognize my man Common. Welcome to 2001. You're bound to see a lot of wack shit, undoubtedly, but Common wants to show you the high point of the fake millenium. He wants to show you that disappointments don't come from all artists, and innovation can only be your friend. Common isn't a man for the intellectual hip- hop heads and the coffee-shop crowd; Common is an artist for everyone. ODB says Wu-Tang's for the children? Fuck that, Common is. Dead Prez is repping for the African folk? Fuck that, Common is. What's that? You're white and you're not sure what hip-hop is aside from a hopscotch move you practiced with your mom? Fuck that, Common's for you. No matter what you do, no matter what genre of hip- hop you're into, no matter what you wear, you can fully appreciate Common throughout the 16 cuts on this LP. I'm still trying to see where Common lacks the skills to be called hip-hop's best MC; not just currently, but of all-time.

-- Dag (daggerone@yahoo.com), October 11, 2001.

I'm really sorry.....but i gotta give it up to 'fabolous sport'. he's been reppin 'fabolous' from the beginning of this thread to the present. of course most people are totally ignoring his ass. but you gotta give it to him for his blind loyalty.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 12, 2001.

Common?! The best MC?! First, I thought I heard it all with someone saying Pun was in BIG's league. But this has to be the worst. Common sells no records. His last record was supposed to be the shit. LP sales aren't everything, especially considering Illmatic didn't go gold. But at least he did that in the early 90s. Now a truly good hip- hop/rap album should AT LEAST go platinum. For Common to be the best he has to distinguish himself from Black Thought, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, DJ Hi Tek, Dead Prez, Pharoah Monch, and the rest of these "sound the same" Rawkus cats. Their delivery is horrendous! For all their deep ass lyrics, Mos Def is the only one who can make you feel it in his voice (and he's not really that good at it). 2Pac came out with lyrics just as deep as Common and whoever, but his delivery was 10 times better. Plus, these cats aren't as witty as Nas, Jay-Z, BIG, or Eminem. Hell, Ludacris and Project, at least they make me laugh and feel good. All Common does is make me think about death and cussin out White people. And his shit doesn't even sound good! His production lacks considerably. That's why he lacks as a complete MC. He is a poet/prophet - I'll give you that. But turning poetry into music is harder than you think, and Common doesn't do it. And another thing, no one has more of claim to being true hip-hop than anybod else. 2Pac is no more hip hop than Biggie who is no more hip hop than Master P, Nelly, Jay-Z, DMX, Ludacris, Missy Elliot, Mobb Deep, Eminem, Bubba Sparxxx, cats still underground, and the list goes on. They all fall under the category "hip hop rappers." Don't hate cause Jay-z makes a club song, Project Pat has no lyrical skill, and Common lacks potent delivery. You don't have to like it (like I don't like Rawkus), but that doesn't make it any less hip hop. But I digress. Common is absolutely NOT the best MC today, yesterday, nor will he be tomorrow if he doesn't switch up his flow, work on his beats, reflect his soul in his voice, and in general, improve on his musical skills. Deep ass lyrics do not make a good MC. Peace.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 12, 2001.

I gotta say I never agreed with you all more than I do now. #1 L.D, yes, the Outlawz called out Jay and he addressed everybody but them. That was weak on Jay's part. He punked out. I'm glad someone finally agrees with me on that (scroll up, I've been saying it since 4ever). #2 Don Was, you are 2 right. I'm not feeling Fabolous, but cuz is and he has shown nothing but 'blind loyalty' (like you said) LOL. #3 Hills, Common? Sales mean nothing nowadays, but yes, Common is not even worthy of being in this dabate. I'm not hatin', but come on.... Common being called the best??? Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 12, 2001.

PEACE to the positive people of the U-N-EYE Much love to all the Gods in the industry making motion for the the heads on the streets. We at war ( f*ck Bush and his fake a** war on terrorism ) The government wants to shut the black youth down and we need to realize that we play A major role in shaping the reality of this world. We need that realness that made hip hop live to come back for many have strayed mesmerized by the " glammer and glitter ". Hip hop is the art and science that has turned the world in A new direction by moving the youth in many countries. Nas and Jay knows this they got knowledge of self they know the struggles the black youth has endured so keep it street GOD keep makin them street anthems that inspire each one teach one. MUCH LOVE PEACE and HAPPINESS

-- QADR the 23rd SCIENTIST (seven7uni@hotmail.com), October 12, 2001.

Amusing that in all these discussions of the greatest of all time, no one has mentioned the absolute best ever: RAKIM!!!

-- gj (johnsong@cadmus.com), October 12, 2001.

Well, for all that we know the world of hip hop is a game. You have to master that game to become the greatest, and frankly blue print is a master of this game. For those of you who don't know who blue print is, it's jay z that is how he want to be known, and of course I'll give him that respect because he earned it for sure.

-- BYRD (seneca19120@yahoo.com), October 12, 2001.

Jay-Z is better than Nas....PERIOD

-- Kiki (quiana809@hotmail.com), October 12, 2001.

A little clarity on the origin of the Jigga/Mobb Deep verbal conflict. There was an article in the Source quoting Havoc "This nigga wasn't around when Snoop came through,crushing them buildings." Referring to the infamous East-West coast beef awhile back which spawned the"New York,New York,"video and song made by those kids,which of course featured a giant-sized Snoop crushing famous NY buildings.Anyway,They went on to say that Jay shouldn't get no love from NY,cuz he wasn't on the frontlines when the bi-coastal verbal slugs flew. Not to mention he made a song responding to Pac's "Hit 'em up" called Dead or Alive. This song featured Jay and Sauce Money blazing Pac after he passed away.I guess he was "persuaded"not to put the song on the Album.The last line was the one that got'em,"We needed the nigga dead." Mobb Deep stayed the course and released "Drop a Gem on 'em" and released it on their album regardless of Pac's passing. So all you folks in Nebraska and Maine,and Minnesota,claiming to know what's going on, now you know.This has been a long time in the making.

-- King Saint (saintize@Yahoo.com), October 14, 2001.

best group = wu tang best female = foxy brown best right now = jay z yall look out for that nigga billy bathgate and please dont bring puffy into this debate, have you seen his new video?? nuff said

-- pj (pj_forever74@hotmail.com), October 15, 2001.

I think that J.Z. is a "fresh dope" and he's a "wack chill". I never heard of Naz but I'm sure he's A "phat crush" who really "busts a freak" rhyme song. My favorite hip hopper is P. Diddy. He's the most "on the hook". I hope J.Z.'s new CD isn't "the Bomb", that sounds really dangerous.

-- A. White (cornywhitedude@youstupid.com), October 16, 2001.

Oh, by the way, I think alot of you are mistaken. The word "Jigga" doesn't start with a "J" it starts with an "N" according to my computer's spell check. I know it's right because I just got this computer and it's brand new. Oh well, "Peace On" "Home spice"!

-- A. White (cornywhitedude@youstupid.com), October 16, 2001.


Verse 1:

So you call yourself god mc... J-hova\ drunk the glass of blasphemy & forgot to pray over\ your games over\ crossed the warpath of a brave soldier\ you're a makeover\ my protege trying to takeover\ I was the sheperd that led you\ But you bit the hand that fed you\ mad cause since I met you i never did respect you\ and as hard as it seems\ you know that I fathered your dreams\ you was a groupie always begging to be part of my team\ another case of a boy and his teacher\ I was the first to poison your speakers\ so kill all that noise that your preaching\ I understand\ all your plans to underhand\ aired threats of you pullin my card next summerjam\ let me make this clear hova\ You had my left overs\ she told me your little problem of the day when you slept over\ but that's another subject homey\ ***** you phony\ I'm coming to collect the debt from the years that you owe me\ so what you capitlized... only cause i allowed\ I'm taking aim at your dome\ and reclaiming my throne\ "Who said I that i aint still nasty"

Verse 2:

How you planned on facing\ the half man half-amazing\ Don't need a fam, Nas is a one man invasion\ claim you hot but you flopped with your roc-familia\ cause real recognize real and you're not familiar\ call yourself gansta but you were begging for pardon\ that night in carbon\ when terror squad flipped on your squadron\ Tried to front on their checks\ till pun put a gun to your chest\ YOu said it yourself dog, Nas is one of the best\ Don't need to search for some dirt to expose you\ I leave it up to the flow dispose you\ when i oppose you\ This is it I'm calling ya\ come out and play like "warriors"\ studied my blueprint then pieced together your formula\ Guess the knowledge I speak too deep to follow\ that's why your stomach to weak to swallow\ The real truth that Nas is\ the greates of all timers\ f*ck skeletons, keep only weaponry in my closets

[ Thurs., Oct. 11, 2001 11:03 AM EDT ]

-- Divine Victory (wali_fard@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

Read that above dunny. That rhyme speaks for itself. Nas is way to advanced and in depth for Jay Z. Oh yeah I forgot most of you Jay Z fans probably don't know how to read true rhymes since yall so damn concerned with those disco looney toon azz beats that Jay Z acquires. Nas is the next man after PAC and Big realize it. Just wait 'til Stillmatic drops!!!!!!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

OHHHHHHHHHHH. LOL LOL. I'm feelin' that Nas comeback, but I need to hear it, before I can say it's really hot. Somebody tell me the name of it. And some one tell me this. I just heard the Jay-z "Wanted Dead or Alive" song. Is this suppose to be about Pac? I heard it was made after Pac died. Now, I got respect for Jigga, but I'll lose it if this is true. Somebody clue me in on this. I know this man did not make a song about a dead man, after he said nothing when the man was alive. Holla

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

No, it was made before his death, but he died, and he decided to take it off his CD...holla

-m dogg what what

-- m dogg (yourmom@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.

i really want to respond to much of what i read, but fact is i don't think any pac fan can be swayed into believing he's not the GOAT. there's really no sense in addressing that. you just have to accept the differences of opinion. i have to say that i am enjoying this jay vs nas beef, only because it's bringing the fire out of them back.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 16, 2001.


-- ALDO ROSARIO (hot97kid@HOTMAIL.COM), October 17, 2001.


-- ALDO ROSARIO (hot97kid@HOTMAIL.COM), October 17, 2001.

I think Jay-Z and Nas are both great MCs. With this new beef, it's bringing out the best in them. No more, "I'm Jay-Z/Nas so whatever garbage I put out will sell" nonsense. They are bringing it a la 2Pac, and the shit is nasty. But I hope you have noted the aura of 2Pac lingering around this beef. Especially Nas. Whoever typed Nas' verses to Jay-Z earlier have to see the exact same shit 2Pac said about Nas. "This nigga named Nas think he live like me, talkin bout he left the hospital, took 5 like me." Straight Pac. So Jay-Z and Nas can have they beef, but like the real G.O.A.T. said, "you and I know what's goin on..." Also, I heard Jay-Z's "response" to 2Pac. As a song, it's tight, but there's not as much response to Pac as I might have expected. He doesn't even say Pac's name, but he says that the person talkin about Hawaiin Sophie (i.e. Pac) has been on his dick a long time.

On a different note, what's up with Snoop in a horror movie? Jimmy Bones? Snoop is really wildin out.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 17, 2001.

Jay-Z has earned my respect on several levels. As a commercial artist, he has dipped MTV into the far reaches of ghetto life (whether or not he's been to Marcy in a while). He has clever wordplay which is smart enough to make you laugh without thinking too much. Nas delivered a classic with "Illmatic" and I believe that all who jumped off the bandwagon will be sure to hop back on when "Stillmatic" is released. Nas outdoes Jay-Z by feeding the streets hunger for relevant poetry. Jay-Z's fatal flaw: sacrifices introspection for sales. Nas' fatal flaw: has not matched his first work yet. Either way the battle between the two has awakened hip-hop. Since the death of B.I.G (fuck Tupac, he stunk to HIGH heaven), fans have not really bothered to discuss who might be greatest. This "beef" makes it safe for us to dispute and criticize which, in turn, helps the genre grow in general. Let's look at some battles which have added spirit to the Hip Hop community in the past. Common v. Ice Cube (Common wins) Canibus v. LL Cool J (why is LL still even rapping?) Tupac v. B.I.G./East Coast (Tupac may have been a great actor but lyrically he matches some five-year-olds) Beanie Sigel v. Jadakiss (Beanie Sigel doesn't understand that knockout punches are quick and witty, not long and boring) Cormega v. Nas (don't sleep on Mega, he ate Nas' food BIG TIME) Jay-Z v. Nas (In my mind, Nas has not devoted a whole song to dissing Hove yet, and if he does, it will be what "Takeover" tried to be. Jay wins for now though)

-- Andrew Ricketts (ricketts83@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

Bitch, don't let me ever see you dis 2Pac like that. You can say he stunk to high heaven, but bitch, he brought it to a whole coast on Hit Em Up, and if the acid he spit on Hit Em Up is like a 5 year old to you, then you need to critique alternative cause you don't know shit about rappin. And don't get me started on the heat from No More Pain, Against All Odds, Bomb First, etcetera, etcetera. 2Pac produced classic after classic while he was alive, while BIG couldn't go multiplatinum until he died. I love BIG, but unless he is alive somewhere making more albums, he will never be the greatest with 2 LPs. Never. 2Pac was considered the greatest before he died, unlike BIG who received votes for that title out of respect. And wherever those two cats are, BIG needs to be thankin Pac for all the free publicity, and puttin his name out there for the whole world to hear. It has been said in this discussion before, both Nas and Jay-Z are trying to be like Pac in this rap battle. Jay-Z usin Nas' voice (a la Pac using Get Money) and Nas sayin Jay-Z copied off of Illmatuc (a la Pac sayin Nas' whole style is bitten). Anybody who thinks 2Pac stinks better keep their day job, cuz no matter what you thought of his albums, you can't deny his appeal. Everybody loves Pac except for all you wack ass NYC catz (all NYC catz aren't wack - just the 2Pac haters) who want to pick somebody from your city to be the best. And since BIG got shot, Nas fell off, and Jay-Z was just beginning, y'all picked him. But the truth is Pac combined the image, lyrics, delivery, production, appeal, and sales better than any MC could ever dream. Better than Eminem, Jay-Z, or anybody who claims to be hot now. So yeah, bitch, 2Pac was a good actor, but he was the best MC ever on the mic, still is, and it'll be a while before anybody can take his crown.

"All you busters is jealous, pull out yo argument and post it, I dare you niggaz to leave in the thread, this future lawyer will roast it."

I made that verse from Mr. Shakur's "No More Pain." (-Plus all you busters is jealous, pull your gun out and blast. I dare you niggaz to open fire, I'll murder that ass-). I guess I'm just like Jay-Z and Nas cuz I'm stealin shit from the greatest. BITCH!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

to determine who is the greatest out of all of these cats, take their nicest lp's and compare them. Pac= All Eyes On Me, Big= Life After Death, Hova= Reasonable Doubt, Nas= Illmatic. In order from least to best comes Reasonable Doubt, Life After Death, Illmatic, and All Eyes On Me. Hate all you want but it is true. And as far as Biggie is concerned, Pac exposed his azz to the world, letting him open up shows for him when they had a friendship. infamous quote "biggie i remember when i use to let you sleep on my couch and beg a bitch to let you sleep in her house, now lets talk about versace you copied my style, five shots couldn't drop me i took it and smiled." yeah yall niggaz remember it, and i bet yall was hatin the shyt out of pac cause he ripped the whole fucking east coast, and they retaliated with sugar coated attacks like Brooklyn's Finest, Dead or Alive, Drop a Gem on Em, and Dead or Alive. Sugar coated means talking about someone in particular but not stating that persons name, SCARY COWARD AZZ NIGGAZ!!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

Oh, by the way, since I'm a 2Pac fan, I have to say that what I wrote earlier was for Andrew Ricketts bitch ass, and anybody else that I catch hatin on PAC. Just like my nigga, when I respond, I use names. Ho ass bastards...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

jo just to let chall know nas is too garbage!! Jay-Z already japped on em on the blueprint cause hes a laaaaame!!!! nas aint on shit with jigga. beanie sigel japped longer than jada but jada japped harder on em'. jada was bogus for rappin with nas do that shit made him look garbage. but im bout to get little peace out

-- sam-izzle (bigpoppapump84@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

I guess you feel great being an e-mail thug huh, Adrian? Just like your little idol Tupac, talking a lot of shit but not saying much. I respect Tupac as a poet and an actor but anyone who was ever a fan of hip hop (language, form and style) knows that Tupac was not the most complex artist. It's cool that you love him so much though. I think simple people need music too.

-- Andrew Ricketts (ricketts83@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

Andrew Ricketts, I'm not an email thug. I'm a Post A Message thug. Gangsta, if you will. And all I know is, you claimed 2Pac was as lyrically sound as a 5 year old. Bitch, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. First, somebody said Pun was in BIG's league, then Common was the best MC ever, and now you hatin on 2Pac. 2Pac haters is nothin new, but the fact that 8 out of 10 hip hop heads know Pac is the greatest says somethin about the other 2 that ride somebody else's dick just because they didn't particularly like 2Pac. I mean, I can THINK Outkast is tighter than Jay-Z, but damn, I can't deny the fact that he's hotter than they are. I'll buy a UGK cd before I buy any of BIG's, but I ain't stupid enough to say Pimp C is the greatest MC of all time! So for all you PAC hatin bitches (hold up, here comes another tight reworked PAC line...)

"Two years ago, a friend of mine Told me everything I post in threads blows the mind Bear witness to the dopest fuckin message I post Takin off my coat, clearing my throat"

I'm so tight...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

And what's up with you calling me Adrian? Why not Hillis 3000 or H3K or something like that? Are you trying to show that no matter what name I use, I'm still Adrian Hill at Vanderbilt? Are you being slick, Andy? Huh? You're so clever - and I'm so simple...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

There has been a post on this thread every day for the past 40+ days. That is unbelievable.

-- David Raposa (daver@popshots.org), October 18, 2001.

Aiight. I think something needs to something needs to be said about COMMERCIAL rap. All of you 'thugs' and 'ganstas' will always have to find new rappers, because hardly anybody keeps the thug life for long. It's like this, remember when you were 16 and got you first fast food gig? Then you went to college, did you stay at that fuccin' job? Do you still want to make 5.15, fucc NO! You want to move up, and you have to use the system to do it. If I make a gangsta album and it selss 300,000 copies, under def jam I just made 1.2 million dollars. That's enough for 1 Bently, 2 hot girls, and 1 platnum chain. They won't play your shit at the clubs, and half the 'thugs' that like it alot stole it anyway. Now, you want to make 5-6 mill, you need to go triple platinum. Everybody needs to feel you, people who will buy your album. That means, club goers, pop lovers (the biggest genre), and dancers. That is the system, you have to change up. Even a smart 'hustler' knows how to use the system. You don't know Jay, or NAS...both are dirty ass thugs, but their friendly on MTV, but that's just for show. The best found out how to work the market, first they got our attention b/c they were thugs, then they used the market. Examples:

Artist Thug Debut Sold in 1 mo Now Sold in 1 mo Jay-Z Reasonable Doubt 178,000 BluePrint 1.2million Ja Rule 3:36 241,000 Pain is Love 500,000+ DMX Dark/Hell Hot 377,000 Then...X 714,000

Are we understanding now?

Jay Z is hot and can definately handle NAS on any level, don't sleep on the ROC.


-- Nick (sirrah79@aol.com), October 18, 2001.

ALLRIGHT LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LET ME GIVE YOU THE OFFICIAL LIST OF GREATEST MCS 1.RAKIM 2.KRS-ONE 3.2-PAC 4.BIGGIE 5.BIG L (THIS CAT IS HOT) 6.NAS(STILLMATIC IS GOING TO SHOW YALL) 7.MOS-DEF 8.COMMON 9.BIG PUN(RIP) 10.CANIBUS 11.MY NIGGAS FROM THE WU(GZA,GHOSTFACE,METHOD MAN ETC)(THE BEST RAP GROUP) 12.JAY-Z 13.LL COOL J 14.RASS KASS 15.KOOL G RAP 16.EMINEM 17.PRODIGY 18.TALIB KWELI 19.JADAKISS 20.DMX(CUZ THE GREAT DEPRESSION IS BRINGNG HIM BACK) 21.REDMAN 22.BLACK THOUGHT 23.PHAROAH MONCH 24.BUSTA RHYMES 25.CAPONE............................................................. ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ...................................................................... ......................................1,500 AND THE WORST MC EVER.E-40 WATCH OUT FOR BILLY BATHGATE AND FABOLOUS THEY ARE HOT.

-- lox (hot97kid@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

Maybe the Tupac thing was a cheap shot. I'll give you that. Let's not get to personal issues though. Don't call out my name. Only bitch-ass kids use rap quotations to justify their weak arguments. Sure, I'm from New York. This status entitles me to opinions about hip hop that your tiny brain probably has never even considered. I know you feel that this is America, with free speech and all that. However, do not get carried away. Some stupidity should be kept to oneself. I respect Tupac fans, but not Tupac dickriders. He's dead. Please, get over it. I'm sure you were not his friend. I'm sure you were not at his funeral. He's not coming back. It's time to move on. Hip hop continues to grow without him. I know you're stuck in the past and you probably fantasize about his balls on your chin and other homoerotic pleasures. Regardless, he is gone. It's okay that you thought he was sexy but do not let that color your opinions of music. Don't fuck with a hater...next time I won't be so nice.

-- Andrew Ricketts (ricketts83@hotmail.com), October 18, 2001.

Bitch, I will slap you and ya mama. Only weak ass little kids bring up the issue of homosexuality to justify their arguments. I'm a grown ass mine. I justify my arguments with cold hard facts: BIG didn't sell like Pac, Jay-Z doesn't have the respect like Pac, Nas couldn't stay on top like Pac, and any other NYC rapper you can pull out can't fuck with anything 2Pac has done in hip hop. His delivery was so sick it was uncanny. Jay-Z is too monotone, Nas sounds like the 5 year old you mentioned earlier, and BIG has too much snot in his throat. Lyric wise, he may not be as witty or clever or catchy as Jay-Z or BIG, but his lyrics were 10 times deeper, and he was more of a poet than Nas, Common, Mos Def, or any other Back to Africa bastard that claims to be real hip hop. KRS-1, Rakim, all those cats - where they at NYC? Whatever happened to longetivity? How come Snoop and Too $hort, some lyrically cats, seem to outsell everybody in the NYC? It's cuz they really. I'll tell you what else is hot. Not KRS-1! Don't get mad cuz Pac told him it was "all over now, take it like a man. Niggaz lookin like Larry Holmes, flabby and sick..." Bitch, you just mad he brought it to yo city, and all NYC cats fall like the World Trade Center. And I'm not gon remake a line from Pac this time. I'll use one of your NYC boys...

"It's like New York's been soft ever since Al-Qaeda and them planes came through and destroyed the buildings..."

So Andy, bitch, let's see how mean you can REALLY get.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

And another thing, Andy, bitch, I didn't know Pac, nor did I attend his funeral, and yes he is dead. But you didn't know him either, you didn't go to his funeral, so I doubt you would have said any of the shit you said earlier to his face like a man. It takes a real pussy to take cheap shots at a dead man on an internet site.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 18, 2001.

MY TWO CENTS ABOUT A FEW THINGS: Overall, Pac was and is the best rapper to touch the mic. He is gone and is still the best. Rakim and all the others had their time back in the day, but they are gone now. Pac is dead and his stuff is still tight and wayyyyy deeper than any rapper out there. Plus, 90% of the rappers out have copied him in some way. NEXT: I give love to east, west, north and south, but overall, east is the best (in my opinion) as far as rap goes. I do admit that we (east) have some nonsense peeps, but so do the other coasts. East and west claim Pac, because he came from the east, but he moved to the west, I admit he took on the east and he got that W if you ask me. NEXT: Those rappers who call out others without saying their names are some fakers. More so if that rapper already said your name i.e. Pac and Jay-Z. If I say your name and you sugarcoat it on your comeback, then you got "PUNKED." LASTLY: Jada killed Beans, he used Beans own song/album titles aganist him, called out the peeps that gased Beans and even mentioned Beanie's mother; he killed him. As far as Jay and Nas, Jay said some harsh stuff, but the "takeover" wasn't his best flow. Saying laaaaammmmme and fammmee and wussy and all of that was weak, and faking like he gonna call Nas out, I wasn't feelin it too much. But Nas... he spoke on how he never respected Jay, and how Jay got punked by Pun and how he had his leftovers (LOL LOL). Thus, I give the win to Nas. He didn't just flow, he made you think.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 19, 2001.


-- lox (hot97kid@hotmail.com), October 19, 2001.

What's up people?

OK. I've been reading these posts for about an hour and I want to contribute my thoughts:

First, arguing about the best ever MC is kind of like people who believe in GOD arguing with atheists. People are going to believe what they want no matter what.

But, having typed that, I need to add that, with regard to Tupac being the best, I don't think even the most rabid Tupac fan (if he's intelligent) can say that he was the best LYRICIST. When you examine lyricism, you have to consider metaphor, simile, wordplay, alliteration, turns of phrase, etc. In these areas Tupac, like most other West coast MCs (and, even though 'Pac was originally from NY - nobody brought this up for some reason - he claimed CA) came up a bit short. 'Pac relied very heavily on his flow (and honestly, I don't think there has EVER been a more passionate, urgent, powerful delivery than 'Pac's) and let that be his guide through the hip hop jungle. East coast MCs, on the other hand, rely VERY much on simile and clever double entendre to shape their lyrics. Biggie, Nas, Jada and Eminem (who isn't exactly East coast but owes his style to the east) all have mastered this technique to one degree or another. It's a coastal, stylistic difference. That's why East coast cats have more love for Biggie than 'Pac (in general) and vice versa in the West.

The other category in which I think 'Pac shuts down ALL other MCs is in work ethic. Tupac is, without question, the most prolific MC of ALL time. Consider this: Tupac drops his first album, 2pacalyse Now, in 1991. He's murdered in 1996. In between that time, he officially released (if we include Don Killuminati, which he had finished) 6 albums. Furthermore, he'd recording over 100 other songs that hadn't found a home on an album yet. All that work in 5 years (1 1/2 of which he'd spent in prison). No other MC can boast that kind of productivity. So, when it comes to flow and productivity, 'Pac is first. I'll leave the 'Who's the G.O.A.T. LYRICIST' debate to you other cats.

-- Lovelle (alovelle01@aol.com), October 19, 2001.

Before I go nuts, I must say Lovelle is right. Arguing about the greatest MCs is like believers versus atheists. And I also agree that Pac ONLY as a lyricist, was not the best. That said, I ask what makes Michael Jordan greater than Shaquille O'Neal? You can say you'd rather have Shaq on your team, and that's fine. That's your personal opinion. But when consideringwho is the greatest, you have to consider what he's done, not potential/personal feelings, etc. Jordan is the greatest basketball player ever because of the six championship rings, numerous MVPs, scoring titles, defensive awards, All-Star games, three-peats, the 72-10 team, and even before all that, he still was in the top 5 in the league. Look at what Jordan actually physically accomplished, and you'll see he's better than Shaq all time. So goes Pac. Sure, you can like BIG's wordplay more. Sure you can make BIG your favorite. But, c'mon. He didn't do near as much as Pac, and his claim to fame is in potential. I said it before, and I'll say it again: 1 or 2 hot albums do not make a great MC. Ask Nas, Mobb Deep, and especially BONE. They fell hard after their first album. Biggie could have, too. I doubt it. Who knows, Biggie could have pulled a Baby Jordan (i.e. Harold Miner). I find it unlikely, but possible. So 2Pac is the greatest because he was the most successful, and 8 out of 10 people agree 2Pac is the best, so you have to give him the nod. If we just pick MCs based on our own personal preference, then Master P and Nelly could legitimately be considered better than Biggie. Of course, that sounds ludicrous, but y'all took it there, not me.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 19, 2001.

Now this is for that Lox, bitch, punk bastard who wrote that shit in all capital letters earlier... Bitch, you kiss my entire black ass. Bitch, being a Pac fan don't mean anybody is on his dick. Bitch, we just realize he's better than anybody, and that's why the muthafucka's dead and still gets more props than any MC still livin. Where's BIG's shit? Born Again? That shit was a disgrace, but I won't hold it against BIG, cause that's not his fault. And you can all that King of NY=King of rap nonsense, cuz if you ask me, New York only has 2 legitimate contenders: Ja Rule and Jay-Z. And Ja Rule isn't that impressive. DMX and Nas have not matched their earlier success. But anyway, NY is so full of shit and building rubble it's ridiculous. You say the South (where I'm from) sucks, but bitch, why do all you New York cats take our style and our beats. I'll tell you why. Pac exposed the pussy that ran all through NY and so after he died, everybody came to South cuz we made ya head knock, and you can put in any track and it would be hot, cuz we know how to sell music. So you wack ass NY cats wanted your supposed Crown of Rap back, so you (mainly Jay-Z) came down here and begged us for our beats. So we gave em to you, restored the buildings Snoop crush, then y'all want to act like y'all the kings again. Don't bite the dick you ride, NY. If the South is so weak, why do you always beg 8ball and MJG to do collabos (i.e. Mase, Puffy)? Why did Juvenile expose how weak Drag-On is in "Down Bottom?" Why did UGK jump on Big Pimpin (which was produced by fellow southerner Timbaland - who saved NY's ass) and make Jay-Z look lame? Jay-Z and Puffy tried to rap like they from the south and they just sounded stupid, cuz their delivery is weak. And then what about Jadakiss beggin Fiend and 8ball to do a song? Why Jay-Z beggin the Hot Boys to do collabos with him? Cause y'all bastards need the Dirty, Dirty. We don't ask people from the North to do songs, cuz we can sell with out you bastards. But the NYC cats know they need the South to sell outside of NY. That's why Outkast and Jay-Z came out on the same day last year, and Outkast won the head to head battle. And that's why 400 Degreez sold more than Hard Knock Life. And that's why Project Pat, Trick Daddy, Ludacris, Three 6 Mafia, and other southern cats (who stink lyrically) can go platinum, cuz the South gives all coasts what they want, while if it wasn't for us, you NY cats would still be using third-grade beats from 1993. So, bitch, just like BIG should do Pac, the whole city of NY should thank the South for putting NY hip-hop back in the mix.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 19, 2001.

maybe i didn't make it clear earlier. YOU DO NOT ATTACK PAC!! pac fans take the shit straight to heart. this shit, as you can see, can get ugly fast.

i'm from the east coast(born in philly), but raised down south. always loved pac. never felt he was the greatest. but that's not the type of music i listen to. always a fan of hip hop, my standards are lyric-based. most of my favorites, many of you have probably never heard of. but this is what makes us individuals. we are alike in that we all have a love for hip hop(rap), but our differences in styles are obvious. because of moving around a lot in life i gained an appreciation for different types of hip hop. of course i won't buy it all, but i respect originality and talent no matter where you're from. as far as jay z, nas, pac, big, jada, beans, and whoever else, it's definately some strong opinions out there. but don't let 'a fans loyalty' become disrespectful. getting your point across is one thing, but look to the art itself. if you can't express your opinion without a certain amount of respect for the person you're talking to, then you're wasting your time and simply starting a fight. no one can learn that way.

best lyricists in my opinion: ras kass(west); talib kweli, mos def (east); eminem(somewhere in the middle); outkast ,yes, both of them (south); and many, many, many underground artists that will never go platinum. some will never even get a contract. sad. anyway, sorry this was so long.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 20, 2001.

I remember you saying that before (Don Was) about you can't tell a Pac fan that he's not the best. Maybe you are right because I feel he was the best and still is. And Hillis did kinda jump out there on the Lox cuz with all caps, but he had it coming. I didn't agree with the jokes about the buildings (no disrespect) but I felt what he was saying about Pac and I did agree with that. With that said, I'll say that peeps can break it down however they want and into how ever many parts, meaning this person may have had the better rhymes, but the next had the better hooks, etc. etc. But overall Pac was the better and best rapper, take it how you want. No one has dropped BOTH hardcore diss tracks (Hit em' Up, Aganist all Odds), and deep songs like Dear Mama, Brenda's Gotta Baby, Keep Your Head Up. I'm saying, he was very versatile and no one has matched that as of yet. Many try, Ja, Jay, etc. None of the new one's can do it. But this of course is my opinion so anyone can disagree, but just think about what I said, before you disagree. Also, I'm from D.C. so I can't shoot off a list of rappers who put us on the map. But I gotta say that the east clearly has the best rappers when you look at it from a numbers standpoint. Each side has some fools like Nelly, and each side has someone who can rep it like Em, but right now, the east has more. Earlier, I DID point out the fact that Pac honed his skills on the east side. But all I care about is "Can he or she flow?" I could care less about where they reside.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 20, 2001.

MY 2 CENTS: I just wanna say a couple of thangs: 1st, Tupac was easily the best lyricst/MC/rhymer of all time. 2nd, all yall niggas dissin Common, Mos Def, and Talib Kweli obviously are to stupid to recognize real hip hop. Third, all this bull-isshhh about Jay Z being better than Nas will end the DAY Stillmatic comes out. When Nas shows yall why he's still the best NY MC alive today, then all these bandwagon jay z lovin niggas will shut the hell up. So in the meanitime, all my fellow Nas fans, don't even argue with ignorant ass niggas cause it ain't worth it. One


-- bwrecks (biruke@hotmail.com), October 21, 2001.

has anyone heard stillmatic yet,(the whole cd)?. i haven't personally so i'm not going to put my hopes into nas just yet. i've got to hear it first. if he brings it this time, i'll be the 1st on this thread to give him his respect. until then, i've got to put my money into something i can stand to listen to more than once. i'm not rich, i can't just buy shit based on hype. nas has disappointed me too much in the past.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 21, 2001.

yo, most of u sons a bitches don't know shit. Jay is gay, a homo, he's the softest most "pop" rapper in the damn game now. I'll admit Nas fell off, big time, and this will bring him back, but at least he ain't str8 up pussy like jay. I think alot of rappers have fallen though, u can't really blame them. When niggaz first come out they bring the best shit and put mad effort 'cause they hungry, after awhile and some success niggaz ain't as hungry, it takes beef to get some damn effort. Look at all da niggaz thats fallen: Busta(mad pop now, Anarchy was the worst thing I ever heard and he used to be my fav), WU-tang( meth everyone they suck ass unless they on someone else's shit, Tical 2000 was the worst cd ever,so was the "W") DMX's first cd was off da heezy, second was str8, everything since has been pop ass party music,redman was the man but now he's just ok, snoop is str8 up homo pretty much, alot of niggaz dun fell off.

and 4 all u fags sayin' jayz is da best lyricist u gotta be shittin me! He ok, thats the most I'll give him. Pac and Big are obviously the greatest fine, thats been established. But people in the game nowadays its tough ta find really good lyricists. Slim is incredible, but he's slippin slightly too, not terribly but a lil. Royce da 5'9 is the fukin man and people ain't been givin him props, alot a people don't kno who he is. Canibus is great, but his beats and production suck ass. Big L was pretty damn good too b4 he got hit. Nas has always been good until the last album or so, Jay may come out w/ a cd every 2 months, but alls he's sellin is horse shit. Nas is gonna tear him the fuck up just like he did w/ the fu-schnickens shit. Its all over ain't even worth arguin about. Jay is a pop pussy homo and its about damn time someone called him on it. I don't wanna hear anymore about his 83rd trial or Big Pimpin part 47, its wak its done, beanie suks, rocafella suks, its time for some fukin creativity in the rap game 'cause its really startin' to suk.

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 21, 2001.

I also gotta agree w/ my nigga B, common and mos def, especially mos def are tight as hell

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 21, 2001.

does anyone actually think jay is gay, or is this just a part of showing disrespect to him. i'm not trying to be funny, i'm serious. cause i haven't heard anything concrete about him and other men. someone let me know, cause that's just unacceptable!!

i agree with some of what karl has said. many artists have fallen after coming out strong. staying on top of the hip hop game is probably the hardest thing to do in music. simply put, many artists not only lose their hunger, but their credibility when they start making millions. i'm not sure how outkast continues to stay original and on top of the game. they get madd respect from me. jay? i can't front, i haven't bought all of his cd's, but year-in year-out he has my head noddin to at least 1 or 2 cuts. but he does piss me off sometimes with the rkelly, mariah c. bullshit. but i guess that's the business side of it. not for me to understand. for the record, 'blueprint' is pretty much bangin'. nas? won't believe in him til he proves it. i can bring up illmatic but so many times in an argument. he has to help a nigga out. potential doesn't cut it anymore.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 21, 2001.

You just cant admit the greatest rapper is Eminem

1. Lyrics-no one more original, wittieer and tighter, and he can switch up flows (forgot about dre)

2. record sales- jayz is minor leagues compared to Em

-- Perics (calvinesco@toosexyforyou.com), October 21, 2001.

Karl hit it on the spot. JayZ aint shit and he never was. Nas already killed him in stillmatic. I read the lyrics and Jayz is as good as dead.

-- giLL (giLLsdaskiLLs@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.

I dont know aboutthe feud, both Nas and Jay Z are nice..Nas did fall off after Illmatic, but how can he ever top that album?? Its a classic. Period. Jigga is dope...but some of your talking abouth the greatest rapper of all time?? If you haven't heard,his name is 2Pac. hands down..BIG entertained you, but Pac inspired,motivated and captivated you!! Tupac Amaru Shakur-T.T.E.O.T.

-- Bryan Lopez (miguel4276@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.

With the exception of Illmatic, Jay-Z is on top of the rap game, theres no denying it. Nas fell off a long time ago, why do you think his new joint is called "stillmatic". This feud is gonna sell a lot of copies for both these dudes, but you got to be careful with this shit, you saw what happened to Pac and Biggie!

-- Mark Mackintosh (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), October 22, 2001.

What the fuck are you talkin' about. U musta smoked you're self retarded Mark. "watch out 'cause u know what happened to Pac and Biggie", are u a newcomer to the rap game? Mad niggaz dun beefed before and it hasn't ended in death. Eminem and everyone alive have caught beef, so have all the other rappers, but especially in this case w/ Nas and Gay Jay neither one would ever let it get violent.I think that thats the last thing that would happen in this case. Its just gonna be a lyrical ass whoopin against Jay. Damn I'm tired of ignorant sons a bitches yappin w/ no sense or knowledge, ya jackass!

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.


-- lox (hot97kid@hotmail.com), October 22, 2001.

Lox, bitch, I don't start shit I finish it. I ain't gonna stand by and let muthafuckas say dumb ass shit like Big Pun is on BIG's level, Common is the greatest MC of all time, there's a lot of MCs better than Pac, and the Dirty South sucks. Bitch, you said the Dirty sucks, so a cat (whodi, shawty, etc.) that knows about wild parties, fast cars, jewelry in the mouth, slow walkin, slow talkin, and BBQ get- togethers from down heah had to protect his set. If you got somethin to say about the dirty, let us show you what music is supposed to do...make you get wild. We make music for the people, not you so called bitches who know "real hip hop." Bitch, you wouldn't know hip hop if it hit you in the face. Any sorry ass NYC cat that puts out an album, y'all say he's real hip-hop, even if the cat ain't sold one album, just because he's from NY. So while I'm supposedly ridin Pac's dick, I'd rather do that than ride any lame ass rapper out the NYC. That includes Jay, Nas, BIG, Mobb Deep, and whoever else. And if all those South rappers are so wack, why do they have all the collabos and record sales? I know, you're going to say they're "pop" or "commercial," right? Well, just because we know what's hot, don't hate. We bounce, and EVERYBODY appreciates bouncin. You know you like it, too. But deep ass lyrics wilh bullshit beats don't go anywhere other than NYC.

And you big dumb ass, what the fuck does hip-hop being started in the Bronx have to do with anything? Jim Naismith invented basketball, but he ain't the best player ever. In fact, the best player (who can come back at 38 and still kill hoes) is from North Carolina -take ya shirt off- which is in none other than the Dirty.

And about you and ya fuck ass buildings, you and the rest of the fake ass US can suck my dick. Everybody wants to be proud to be American now until about a year from now, when everybody goes back to ignoring people, and white girls start clutching their purses when niggas walk by, or people start back assuming all Hispanics are illegal aliens. And everybody wants to do these wack ass ceremonies to "honor" the dead when no one gave a damn about the hard work they did when they were alive. Don't get me started on America's war and how it takes the loss of 6000 before we realize how precious life is. But I ain't even gon go on about that, so...

Bitch, you and the rest of ya wack ass city can hate the South, but bitch we sittin fat stackin mad paper from record sales, while Jay-Z and BIG are the only NY cats to know the meaning of multi-platinum. And the only reason Jay-Z goes platinum is because he came to the Dirty and learned about how to produce MUSIC and he said fuck NY's fake ass version of "real" hip hop.

P.S. Don't forget about weak ass Prodigy beggin B.G. to do a collabo. P.P.S. I've heard a song called "Want to Play Rough?" that may be on Nas' Stillmatic. Also, the Jay-Z/Rocafella diss on Stillmatic looks good on paper, but the actually song is merely OK. The beat is wack. It's too "jiggy." I think it's a remake of Get Money, but I'm not sure. Also, Nas raps too fast. I was disappointed.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 22, 2001.

Hey this is for Hillis 3000 or Adrian or P. Diddy or whatever the hell your name is. If you are seriously studying to be an attorney then there is something very wrong with the university/law school you are attending. There's no doubt that your comments on this thread are passionate and heartfelt (although ridiculously juvenile). However, you are a little too sensitive, far too impulsive and way too immature to ever be a successful attorney. In addition, your borderline psychotic infatuation with Tupac Shakur is a little weird "...bitch, don't let me ever see you dis 2Pac like that..." Easy boy. What are you, his little brother? Listen, I like Tupac's work. I like hip-hop. But put the shit in perspective man. You think you can be an attorney!? What's with the jokes about NY City and the burned down buildings? Someone criticizes a fuckin' rapper that you apparently worship and you make a crack about a National Tragedy. You're an easily impressionable, obsessive little fuckin' punk tryin' to spit some sort of pseudo-intellectual bullshit on a topic that, in the grand scheme of things, is not that important. You want to be a lawyer? Why don't you study the works of Clarence Darrow or Daniel Webster, instead of quoting lines from your favorite Biggie song? And this shit of revising Tupac lyrics (like a fuckin’ 12 year old boy) to demonstrate some wit and intellect , “…All you busters is jealous, pull out yo argument and post it, I dare you niggaz to leave in the thread, this future lawyer will roast it…” Are you kidding me!? You’re a dreamer Adrian. You’ll never ever be an attorney. You’re one of those cats who’s an eternal student of life, never a teacher. Save the tuition money Hillis, and stick to that jar of Vaseline and your 2Pac poster. Leave the legal work to those of us who have earned the distinction and are committed to it .

-- JS (jstephenson@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.

Hi. I don't know who you all are, or how you found your way here, but I'd like to point out that this thread is part of the I Love Music discussion board, available from Freakytrigger magazine. Seeing as how all y'all know a bit about hip-hop, I'd like to invite you to check out the rest of the board, which tends to be a bit lackluster in the rap department right now. Also, I should warn you that the board tends to be more, er... polite and analytical than the direction this thread has taken.

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), October 22, 2001.


-- lox (hot97kid@HOTMAIL.COM), October 22, 2001.


-- LOX (HOT97KID@HOTMAIL.COM), October 22, 2001.

This goes out to JStephenson who broke out that "student of life, never a teacher nonsense...You can teach and still be a student, fella, who are you the almighty righteous one?? Second of all, all this country needs are more lawyers...Answer this whats your purpose in life?? to be a lawyer-your a magot!!....Yes what happened to the Trade Center was a tragedy, Im from the L.E.S....but it was just a matter of time before that was going to happen. Look at the U.S. Foreign Policy. and the countless other Imperialistic sanctions imposed..

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), October 23, 2001.

Dear Manny Guervara,

No shit you can teach and still be a student. Read my message you fuckin' piece of garbage. Are you fuckin' stupid! You're justifying a terrorist act that killed thousands of innocent people. "...but it was just a matter of time before that was going to happen...". US foreign policy and imperialistic sanctions? The United States is the most underappreciated and overcriticized nation in the world. Listen you fuckin' worthless piece of garbage, if you don't like this country, please go back the third world country from which you defected. This country doesn't need any more lawyers!? What this country doesn't need is trash like you disrespecting this great nation.

-- JS (jstephenson@yahoo.com), October 23, 2001.

i think it's really cool that intelligent people are finally taking up more space in this thread, but Nas vs Jay Z turning into a political argument? well, i agree that our country definately has it's flaws. that aside, it's still the greatest country in the world. the crap that we do is definately on par with what the worst of this world has done, but the freedom to post this information in a thread is golden. NY? got mad love for you. i'm from the North, Philly to be exact. but for anyone to put down the music of a whole region is probably the most ignorant thing a person can do in this thread. i've lived in the south for years and i'd dare someone to try to move a crowd here on some strictly eastcoast type music. it just won't work. while i personally listen to much of the underground eastcoast type material, i find my self amongst few down here in Alabama. simply put, most of that "real hip hop" doesn't leave NYC. at least that down south flavor travels throughout the south, the midwest and much of the west. though the lyrics may not be deep, enough people like it to call it music. when i first moved down south, i thought it was oh so cool that i was from up north. brothers wanted to be like NY, talk like NY, dress like NY, listen to NY music. that shit played out real quick. brothers ain't really studying NY anymore, and haven't for years. that bullshit about NY being the 'end all-be all of shit that's good', is total garbage. the south has got their own thing goin on, as does the midwest and the west. all NY has goin on is NY. no more no less. my preference in hip hop music is pretty much eastcoast. but what moves me doesn't always move everyone else. if you haven't already learned that lox, you will.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 23, 2001.

A friend of mine told me to check out this thread to confirm the popular notion that hip hop/rap fans are truly lowlife garbage. Do you realize how funny and embarassing your music is? Chanting monkeys convincing themselves that their "poetry" is profound narrative of "the streets". Bullshit. I've read dumb dead ass Tupac's lyrics. I've read dumb dead ass Biggie's lyrics. These are the "poets" you worship? This is the best you have to offer? Neither of these uneducated waste of lives could even speak the English language properly. In between the "we wuzzes" and other embarrasing attempts at grammar is the essence of hip hop: dumb dribble for a dumb culture. This guy Hillis 3000 is an absolute hilarious clown. Everything you've written is ridiculous. And you wonder why ladies clutch their purses when you stroll by...

-- Rap Sucks (sod@excite.com), October 23, 2001.

Suddenly this thread isn't funny anymore, but turning ugly, violent, and racist. Please keep this stuff off our clean family board, eh?

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), October 23, 2001.

Yo, first of all let me say both Jay and Nas are tight ass MC's and Jay did rip Nas a new on the Blueprint (Track 2, Takeover), but how can you say Nas fell off. I know people who still listen to It Was Written and I AM. Nastrodamus was average though. But battling MC's is what its about from LL and KoolMoe Dee to Pac and Biggie to this...I do think Jay hypnotized a few people into being his fan with all the ice and chrome 20's but if your hot, your hot. Maybe Fox Boogie can help them work out their differences since she's been known to work with both of them... and for the record Jay wasn't the first to head south... Nas did it with I Am when he had Scarface on track number 5... listen before make an opinion. Put those "How to be Jay-Z" make-up kits away and listen to some music...

-- Ken Bailey (knymac@yahoo.com), October 23, 2001.

Yo, right off da bat, Nas is hot as f*** and too many out there is sleepn on him and yall mustove forgot. He's still da poet wit da illmatic flow, keeping it strait street fa ya ears to list. And as far as Hova is concerned, yeah he still hot and doing his thing but he ain't ready fa "lyrical/battle exercise" wit Nasty. Personally, I feel he definitely went "lime-light" status. He don't write fa da streetz anymore. And even though throughout his career he remained fairly consistant, he'll never be as hot as he was on da Reasonable Doubt. If you cats heard anything from Nas new s*** stillmatic, you a realize that he's taking back to illmatic plus 1. Even though every rapper out there is out fa his head. Last but not least, weather Hov admits it or not, He know Nas is hot. He always gave Nas his props throughout his career; adding him in his personal "Holy Trinity" of rap when he quoated, "argued all day about, who's da best Emcees, Biggie, Jay-Z and Nas." Nas never really respected Jay-Z since Reasonable Doubt when he dropped da classic single Dead Presidentz in which he sampled Nas voice from Illmatic. Every since then Nas had personal beef wit Jay and it grew from there. And I feel da Jig is making a crucial mistake in making a public rival wit Nas. Not that its hurting his sales but he's making Nas a very popular rapper. Even Jay-Z's fans are awaiting Stillmatic to hear his comback on Jig's diss on Da Takeover. Jay, you making my manz rich yo!

--Illivised.. Holla

-- illivised (illivised@yahoo.com), October 25, 2001.

Stephenson, Just what I thought. your a fool with lots of Racism feelings that you need to work out with a therapist. You have been brain washed with all that America is this great nation nonsense that you are obviuosly an idiot who talks out of their ass..Yes America does their share but as long as its in their National best interest, quid pro qou you fucknig yuppie!!! oh yeah for your 411 I am not in the States and nor do I want to be in it again until all you Pilgrims are out of their. whose the real Illegal Alien now you fucking cockroach...Hasta La Victoria Siempre-MG

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), October 25, 2001.

Just wanted to re-post this comment made in a Nas Escobar Yahoo club: The link mention in the article is shown below: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1446481/20010809/story.jhtml

Here are some interesting excerpts from that MTV article: ================================================== "There's no need for rappers' mothers to put on the Kevlar just yet, but their MC sons are spewing a lot of venom at each other these days. Jadakiss has been beefing with Beanie Sigel. Sigel has made it clear he's not feeling DMX. DMX may have it in for Jay-Z; Nas definitely does. Nas is also going at it with Sigel, Cormega, Freeway and Memphis Bleek.

Jadakiss swears it's mostly hype. "Usually everything is to make money," he explained. "If you can make money off it, then it's beneficial."

"It's music," Jay-Z said last week, on the set of the video to "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)" (see "Jay-Z Gets Serious, 'Soulful,' On New Video And Album"). "It's rap music. Rap music was built on being competitive — MCs from back in the days battlin' and trying to be the best. But now you've got money involved, so you take that competitive fire and you add it along with money, and you got a lethal combination. But it's good for rap music."

Nas piles on the Jiggaman on his new dis record, a freestyle called "Stillmatic," on which he also spits fire at Cormega, Freeway, Memphis Bleek and Beanie Sigel.

"I rule you, before you used to rap like the Fu-Schnickens," Nas raps. "Nas designed your Blueprint; who you kiddin'? It's H-to-the- izzo, M-to-the-izzo ... the rapper version of Sisqˇ."

To Jay-Z, it's all about positioning to be at the top of the rap ladder.

"[Nas] is definitely gonna bring out the best of me; he's gonna put me at the top of my game," Jay said of his fellow lyrical giant. "It's like playing basketball with a guy. He's gonna put me on top of my game; I hope I do the same for him. I don't want to hurt the guy. It's just verbal sparring. No one is fighting. It's just records." " ================================================== If you look back in history, scenarios like these are pretty common. Even Henry Matisse and Pablo Picasso shared a competative dialogue throughout the 1920s-30s as each man tried to prove that he was #1 in the art world.

The funny thing is I remember seeing a Source mag cover with Jay-Z, DMX and Ja-Rule all posing in the same pic. They were calling themselves "Murder Inc." or something. Now DMX doesn't like Ja. Ja hates X. And Roc-a-fella, according to the MTV article, the Roc-a- fella camp doesn't like X either.

Honestly, I think Nas is a superior lyricist, more advanced and introspective than Jay-Z. But underneath all the tough talk about sending kids to their graves, these guys are all probably big softies. They all just want to sell a million copies and they know beef gets everyone's panties wet. Jay-Z just eeked his way out of that stabbing indictment. Now he's on probation for 3 years, so we KNOW he's not serious when he yells "murder."

If Nas is smart, and we know he is, he'll use this beef thing with him, Mega, Freestyle, Jigga, and whoever else to sell units like crazy and maybe launch a Stillmatic tour or something. Either way, I'll bet Nasir and Shawn will laugh about this whole thing over some beers at Nas's home 10 years from now.


"We had words, cause the best is supposed to clash at the top." -- Nas, "We Will Survive"

-- Lou (lsc21@mediaone.net), October 25, 2001.

"This be the realest shit I ever wrote..."

Some of this will be real, some of it exaggerated. You be the judge.

First of all, "lox," I can tell you're about 16 by the way you phrase your arguments and the fact that you diss every region except NY. That's the same narrow-minded thinking I had when I was 16 saying fuck the whole East Coast, back when Pac was alive. But then I actually listened to the East Coast music for myself, and I realized my southern roots could co-exist with NY hip-hop. Biggie has went from shit to The Shit in my mind simply because I actually peeped Life After Death for myself. Maybe if you peeped, for example, UGK and realized there's more to a song than lyrics, you could appreciate the production, and Pimp and Bun's flows. But whatever. I gives a fuck what you think about the south, 2Pac, or anything for that matter. And that's real.

Second, JS? You over analyze shit. Me and my boy argue all the time about who's better - Pac or Jay. Obviously, he says Jay. We both know we'll never change each other's minds, but we argue anyway cuz we both like to argue. And I'm in here just enjoying posting messages. I don't know you. I don't know "lox", and you cats don't know me. I gives a fuck what you think of me, cuz you don't know me. I'll come in here and say what I want, just because I like arguing. And if someone in here disses the South, or says Pac ain't the best, I'm gonna say something, cuz I'm in here having fun. And I don't read Clarence Darrow or Daniel Webster because I really don't give a rat's ass about either of them. Hope that answers that question. If you think I "worship" Pac, that's your biz. If I'm supposedly juvenile in my responses, that's your biz. If you think I can never be an attorney, that's your biz. I'll still be me after everything you post. And I'm still gonna do what I gotta do to be lawyer, regardless of your opinion. And that's real.

Third, if you got a problem with anything I say/have said about the World Trade Center, then get over it. I'll say what I goddam please, national tragedy or not. I've heard many songs with references to slavery, the Holocaust, starving kids in Africa, etc. but no one gets pissed. It may be taboo now, but in a year, some rapper will mention the September 11 attacks in their rap in a way that might not seem appropriate right now. I'm just early with mine. Innovative, if you will. Truth is, I like NY rap and NYC. But fuck it, "lox" dissed the South, and the only thing I know for a fact about him is that he is from NY. So I gotta fuck with him. And what's the big thing in NY? The WTC. So fuck it, I'll let "lox" know that whatever his punk ass says about the Dirty South, unlike the World Trade Center, we're still standin. His punk ass better go find some anthrax to play with. Yeah, I said it. And that's real.

Fourth, if takin rhymes from Pac and reworkin them is something a 12 year old does, then that remark about Vaseline and 2Pac's poster (implying I have homoerotic thoughts about Pac) was what? 13 year old shit? You got me beat by one year? Damn, you got me. Really though, the gay references are a lot more played than recycling rap verses. And that's real.

Fifth, for that Rap Sucks cat, I got two words for him: ya mama. And that's real.

Finally, anybody got something to say to me, I'll be happy to respond because like Chris Tucker (impersonating Scarface) said in Money Talks "I do this shit for fun, man!" Since quoting rappers is lame, I'll quote a pro wrestler in The Rock: "Just Bring It." And that's real. Bitches.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 27, 2001.

And another thing "lox" bitch, Jordan could have been born in Brooklyn, the Bronx, Timbucktu, Mars, ya mama's house, wherever. He still came down south and that's where he cultivated his game.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 27, 2001.

Gay Jay sucks, DMX sucks and no one should cop his new album. Rap today is at an all time low. Most the shit that comes out is pop as hell. Its like the damn Backstreet boys started rappin. Ja is one of the worst rappers out every song he does has a bitch in it, he can't do shit on his own. I wanna see some hard rappers, instead of most of these pussies that act like they thugs but rap like queers. Its like when D12 said "most y'all sound like Jigga but act like Pac" Jigga's a fukin homo ass pussy. Yo I find myself downloading songs from the mid 90's when rap was really crackin. Some of those artists are still around but now they suck. Nowadays we got fags like cash $ actually doin good in this rap game, I mean how dumb are some of u fuckers that you'll spend money on niggaz that put no creativity or effort into anything. They're lyrics suck dick and I'm suprised but they actually spend time writnig them, I would never have thought that they actuall wrote until I heard them freestyle. Let me tell you that was the worse thing I've ever sat through in my life I was reachin for anything that would cut my fukin wrist. They're fukin illiterate sonsa bitches. I think we need to raise our standards as rap fans. If somethins wack as hell don't but it, if your favorite mc is comin out w/ some shit and u know its his 3rd album of the year and its gonna be garbage, don't fukin buy it. the rap game is hurt as hell right now and basically we're to blame cause we support niggaz that aint puttin any effort into shit. They shit on a cd and we buy it, meanwhile they think they actually did an ok job because their sales are still high so they continue to make half ass albums w/ little to no effort cause they think they're just as good as they used to be.We got mad pull over this, we need to open our damn eyes and realize that we got some fukin power. we should boycott some of these niggaz, most of these niggaz and raise the fukin bar. If we don't the game will continue to be pop as hell and we'll still be sittin back wakin it talkin bout if Gay Z's bitch ass is better than people like Pac who actually wrote and put mad effort into shit, or BIG or Mos Def or any real niggaz. Every rapper's gonna have a flaw or 2 but we can't let fags rule the idustry.

-- Karl (KrazyKarl_33@hotmail.com), October 27, 2001.

I haven't really seen too much on here lately that I really agree with or support. However, Karl has spoke the truth. I feel similar, but I believe he has taken it to the extreme. Nevertheless, I agree with the man's point. Rap is terrible right now. We got maybe a hand full of quality rappers today, but overall, rap is on it's last leg. Ja, and Nelly and cuz who raps about area codes... that's what we got y'all. Best believe my money doesn't go toward that. Even the people who were hot back in the day have slipped, but that's expected in a certain way; some say you can't be the best forever. Point is, if rap doesn't change soon then we are all gonna be forced to pump the oldies, like Karl said, or some will just go buy Black Rob's "Whoa" or Cash Money's "Hotgirl" and be content with that. Don't get me wrong, I have "Blueprint" and I like Eminem, but they aren't bringing me subjects I can relate to and it seems that many of their rhymes lack effort. It sounds good, but after a while, I see myself wanting to hear "Me Against the World," or something similar. I'm not saying all rap has to be deep or on the level of Pac, but show me some effort. Snoop's first CD wasn't all that deep and NWA's work, but I liked them, I could listen to that. But now...I don't know. I don't think a boycott is gonna work because a lotta peeps buying today's rap don't even know what rap used to be; they don't know what the are missing, but I feel your anger. I feel that all the way. I don't wanna hear the nonsense that Bleek spits or the 3 six crew, but that's what I see as today's norm. Qoolout P.S. Let's try to get this debate back to rap.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 27, 2001.

NONE of these rappers ever put food on my table.... so f*ck all of them.

-- REALITY (wake_up@all.yall.muthas), October 27, 2001.

I agree with Karl about most of his shit. But I really felt him about mid 90s rap. That was the peak of rap. I have so many CDs from 1993- 1996 and they are all tight. Now, rap is kind of watered down because for some reason, people don't feel thugs anymore. It's not OK to rap about blowin a nigga away over drugs while you run from the police and blast back. Why? I love gangsta rap! That's why the mid 90s was so tight. Everybody rapped about starving and drugs and murder. People say that's bullshit, but if you keep it on wax, it's cool with me. I ain't gon lie, I like Three 6 and Cash Money. Lyrically, they ain't all that, but I like their beats and production, cause I'm a "bass" head. That's another reason I like mid 90s rap. The production (in my opinion) was a lot more grimey. I love that shit. But unfortunately grimey doesn't sell, so people have to put out pop bull for grandmas to get some loot. I mean, if you do that, that's yo biz. Still, I long for the mid 90s rap. That 3-4 year period was just pure heaven for me. Oh well. I guess I'll just have to throw in an old Pac CD or Southernplayalistic or fuck it, I might throw on No Limit Soldiers just so I can jump around! I'm out. RIP mid 90s rap...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 27, 2001.

'whoa' is tight.

-- ethan (ethanp@bellsouth.net), October 28, 2001.

You can like "Whoa" all you want to. That's your right. I'm just saying that that is the type of music that gets the number 1 spot, because there are few good songs out there. I'm not feeling that song, for many reasons. 1. It hardly rhymes; the man is just talking, 2. What in the world is his point? And since I'm on the subject, what is the point of this other stuff out here? Izzo. It makes me nod my head, but can I get a few songs that makes me think? Even Destiny's Child "Say my Name" has a point. Holla

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Yo, I'm new to this shit. I'd just like to say, No disrespect to you 2Pac or Biggie fans, they were great, but their dead and sooner or later, a more modern nigga would have surpassed their accomplishments and then they would have been the newest greatest emcee. So why can't it be Jay-Z? No one even Pac has been as concistant on every level. From owning your own record company, clothes line, toping the charts, holding hits down every summer, and even lyrical talent. That's all I had to say about that.

However, does anyone know if that shit about Jigga & Big Pun was true or not?

Somebody Holla Back!

-- Deshaun (Giphetto@aol.com), October 28, 2001.

yo on da real, owning a record label, clothing line and toppin da charts aint what makes u a good rapper. thats just what makes u more money. clothing lines and shit is whats commercialized da industry. and u can't just say someone woulda passed BIG and Pac up like its a fact. the only thing that coulda happened if they were still around is they woulda held the level high enough to wipe out all the bitch ass mcs or they woulda eventually played themselves and joined alot of da other niggas that fell off. and Gay z is not tight lyrically. i can't lie wen he first came out he was str8 but not no more, not 4 awhile and he is ok lyrically, thats it there are much much better lyricists out there than that fag. even on NAS's week cds he still kicks some descent lyrics, he just ain't sold as much as J cause he never went str8 pop till his last album which was so not him and so garbage, but he still a better lyricist and he isn't even great. on the real if u want lyrics cop em, royce da 5'9, mos def, canibus, and some of these other niggaz wen they was real. i like to bump some shit sometimes like the next guy, but i don't appreciate it as real quality rap, i just look at is as somethin to make my trunk rattle and damage my ears a lil bit. 3-6 is possible the worst lyrically, every song is almost exactly the same, but every song bumps like a motha fuker, so i play them every once in awhile, and thats cool but we can't let ourselves think that its any good 4 anything other than that.

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Like Sterling, I've noticed that there are a lot of people who post here but don't post anywhere else on ILM. I encourage you to post on other threads too, there are thousands of them, and I'm sure some of you would have lots to say. Here are links to just a few related to hip hop (though there's no reason you should only write about hip hop; jump in on any topic you like).

Here's a link for one on NWA, here's one for Roll up leg of your pants, here's one for OutKast vs. Goodie Mob, here's one for Bounce/Cash Money, here's one for hip hop vs. rock, to get your blood boiling, and one for hip hop slang. There are lots more.

And here's the one for the I Love Music board in general, which you can also get to with a link at the start of this thread.

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), October 28, 2001.

Ilove hip-hop, but don't tell me that is the only type of music you clowns listen to...How old are you kids anyway??...Hillis, you wanna be a lawyer but you still listen to that Thug shit, time to grow up a little man!!!...pick up some Jazz Cd's or Jamiroqui if you like beats...and if you do respond try not to curse, we'll put you on a program, cause you know you wont be able to curse in the courtroom, so try to practice, and stop giving us qoutes from rappers or wrestlers-thats even worse, but if that is how far your level of thinking has bought you, so be it...just another lost mind...-Manny Guevara....Hasta La Victoria Siempre

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), October 28, 2001.

1st of all, why do peeps feel the need to post lines saying that "rappers never did anything for them," "or we seem to involved in rap" or "blah blah blah?" Okay. If you don't like rap or don't wanna read our opinions, then be out. People act like they are above us because we like rap and know many details about it. This is a subject that we want to discuss and this is the forum for it. Stop faking like you all are superior just because we know more about this art form than you do. And I'm talking to whoever feels that I'm talking to them. Secondly, Jigga can have all that other stuff, record company, clothing line, whatever... at the end of the day it doesn't make him a better rapper or a worse rapper...as far as rapping goes, those elements mean nothing. Furthermore, I don't know how well his clothing line is doing, but hardly NO ONE where's that bull over here in D.C. It's not really even in any stores and that's fine with us. Also, does he have his own record company? Dash and Biggs and some others- don't they call the shots too? I'm not trying to sound like a Jay hater, but he's not really impressing me with all that secondary stuff. And maybe someone else would have been able to pass Pac, but I doubt it because, no one has done it yet. Jigga is at the top, but look at the comp. Remember when the Rockets were NBA champs 2 years st8? Where was the comp? (No disrespect to y'all Houston fans) Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Hey Qoolut or whatever you call yourself, are you a panzy? Yousound like a bitch with all this is "our forum and our opinions, your like a little girl chatting about "Days of Our Rappers Lives". Congratulations that your from the D.C. area, were gonna put you on that program with that Hillis character, youll start on the Stupid Line and work your way up, o.k.??......Manny Guevara....Hasta La Victoria Siempre

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), October 28, 2001.

First off, I gots to agree with my man qooloot about these people trying to act like they are superior to us because we know more about hip hop then they do. Hell, if we knew who every damn classical composer there was, we would be considered cultured geniuses. But just beacuse we know about this african-american based music called hip-hop, its considered "childish" and we need to "grow up." That is the very problem we have today in this dayand age. Anything created by blacks is considered inferior or of less importance than something created by whites. Like classical music, hiphop is a creation with deep cultural roots. And to diss hiphop is to diss the culture of a peoples who have been an intergral part of this world that we live in. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't listen to other types of music, but still, don't diss the music of my peoples. Second, I must also agree that the period between 1988-1996 was when hiphop was in its purest form. Back before 1994, almost every artist that came out had some kind of social or political message. Until the advent of gangsta rap, hiphop took on a very analytical stand point. After gangsta rap came out hiphop went on a steady decline to become the bling-blining, Rolley flashin, money spendin crap it is today. Not to say that all of todays artists are crap (Check out Pharoh Monch, Talib Kweli, Common, Cormega, (pre '96) Nas, Outkast, etc..) Rap has seriously deteriorated from what it once was to what it is today. I think the main problem with rap is that before its success, rap was trying to change the world. But as soon as rap took over the world, it has stopped trying to change the world. My final point is that, I am a 24 year old black male in medical school studing to become a cardiovascular surgeon. All of you idiots who think everybody on this forum is just abunch of mindless, immature idiots with nothing better to do need to go do one thing......go fuck yourself. Peace out to all my all my fellow hiphop lovers.

-- Bwrecks (buzz@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Manny, the courtroom is just like being around my mother. I can stop cursing when I want to. I don't need the program, but thanks for your help. But I am grown-up. That's why I'll listen to "Thug shit" if I want to without worrying about what some bastard I've never before thinks about it. And there's a lot of grown men and women who will do the same. And that's real. Bitch.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 28, 2001.

Hey Bwrecks or 'studing' to be in medical school guy, you forgot the 'y' but I'm sure that was just a 'mistook', right??? No one is knocking your beloved Hip-Hop...God knows I like Hip-Hop, but really, is Nas gonna be a 40yr old rapper talking about shooting gats or are you gonna be 30 and still listening to that Gansta Non-sense...why dont you pick up a The Roots Cd or bump some Tribe, De La, get over the Menace to Society days, it was cool when we were 16 and smoking 8 blunts a day, but your gonna be a surgeon for crying out loud..I know you don't need me to tell you this, well then again, maybe you do...I hope you are not lying to us, about Medical school?? are you?? cause we'll be watching you....Hasta La Victoria Siempre...Manny Guevara..

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

LOL. You wanna diss me (Manny Granny, or whatever you call yourself) and the best you can come up with is "panzy"? I don't even wanna step down to your ignorant level, but I will cuz. First of all, you are saying nothing; not a thing. Do you disagree with a point I made? If so, say so. In your entire stupor, you just babbled about nonsense and your fictitious program (also nonsense). Say something that makes sense so I can debate it. You seem to lack the skills to speak your mind. Second, the truth hurts, right? You are not above anyone in the world dogg. Get away from the attitude that says "rap is nothing and I am above all hip-hop heads." Bwrecks already killed what you were saying and I couldn't put it better myself. And I didn't call your name out because I figured you could do a self analyzes and it would be your business and yours only. It's better to have peeps think that you are a fool, than to speak foolishness and remove all doubt. Thirdly, I meant what I said this is "our forum and our opinions." The problem is peeps like you come on our forum and get us off the topic with ignorance and hate. And I never said anything about "Days of Our Rappers Lives" I don't know where you got that. You lost me even more (if possible) with that line. Yeah I'm from D.C....I was making a point when I said it...what were you doing when you mentioned it? I tried to take the topic back to rap, but Manny wouldn't let me. And I don't wanna do anymore disses either, but if he forces my hand, I don't wanna hear that I was too vicious either. Manny you lack logic, holla when you get some. And go head and respond so you can prove my point futher. bwrecks, I feel ya, holla.


-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Hillis, Congratulations!! You can now got to step 2...Now, doesn't that feel good, well, you did say 'bitch', but that is in the dictionary so we'll let that one slide...What's with that: 'And That's Real', who are you Bryant Gumble?? You cockroach.....Hasta La Victoria Siempre..Manny Guevara

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), October 28, 2001.

Well to get back to the original topic at hand, STILLMATIC will be dropping 12/18/01. I heard a few tracks already and it sounds like Nas is headed back to his infamous street poetic days of ILLMATIC. I garuntee all questions will be answered when Nas drops this lp. Jay Z "lets get ready to rumble......." 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

I agree with "The Best". Jigga got off on the Blueprint. And I hate J-Z. He caught Nas and Prodigy lovely. People were sayin Nas couldn't come back. But, If you peeped on Stillmatic the song. He said his next albums are going to be masterful. Here's the dynamics. Nas fans are on a quest to hear true hip hop and has faith in him to bring back illmatic. Hov fans are people who respect hip hop (sort of) but measure success on fame and records sold. Nas wanted some of the fame badly and compromised a couple of albums to do it. Only to realize that the sucess he had was residue off illmatic. It was written and I Am.... were quality albums, they just came after illmatic, which was CLASSIC! I didn't care for Nastradamus. But Nas Realized that he had to be who he was and commercial compromising work for other rappers but not him. He said in "Rise and Fall" Nas Escobar is laid to rest. Hopefully Nastradamus is too. Going back to Rakim's old beat gave him that old vibe that puts him back to his old self and I think it will level jigga's ego. Lyrically he don't want it with Nasty. He's STILLMATIC!!!!!!!!!

-- SecondSage (secondsage@yahoo.com), October 29, 2001.

I'm feelin' your sentiment Second Sage! December 18 will be a big day in hip hop. Hey Hillis, I think you're alright dog. You seem to attract much drama and although I don't agree with some of the things you write, I respect your opinions and I'm down with the way you express them. This is a hip hop forum about the most dynamic and influential music of our generation. Let's keep it that way. All them other racists, haters and cynics can write what they want, but recognize that the majority of posts on this thread have been thoughtful, insightful and well written. All the dumb shit has been written by the aforementioned bigots and morons. As far as Jay Z goes, his flow and delivery have always been average. He's made a name for himself by mixing witty lyrics with dope beats with a pop sensibility. Ain't nothing wrong with that. He gained a larger audience (16 year old suburban high schoolers) than he lost (hip hop purists). Regardless, I still like him once in a while when I feel like bouncin'. Hip hop might be stagnant now, but at least it's diverse. For every Common and Mos Def out there spittin' knowledge and depth, there's Petey Pablo and Ludacris breakin' your neck. If my collection only contained shit that was deep ass or raw, I'd go outta my mind. A little mindless shit from Cash Money or Big Tymers is not bad once in a while. At the very least, it'll make you appreciate shit like "Illmatic" or "Paid in Full".

-- Dmac (Mccarthy7@yahoo.com), October 29, 2001.

Manny, just because you're Hispanic doesn't mean you have to be like Scarface, you cockroach. Hillis 3000 AKA Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off - and that's real. Bitch.

P.S. I wanna give a shout out to my man Dmac for being open-minded and having something thoughtful to say without having to diss a coast, rapper, style, etc.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 29, 2001.

I really really love Nas and I feel that he is not recognized like he should. He is the most prolific rapper. he does not want to go commercial because that not be fair to true Nas fans, he wants to keep it real. As far as the beef thing goes don't we have better things to worry about? (Sept 11) But when Dec 18 hits we will have to see who will be the last man standing.

-- Tiandra Miller (teeZphiB@yahoo.com), October 29, 2001.

yo i agree and support that nasty is a way better rapper than gay j but he's slipped up. Tiandra sayin that Nas has stayed true and has never tried to go commercial is garbage, check out his last lp w/ the frikin pop shit on there. i like nas he could kill alot of people lyrically especially j but he has gone commercial w/ his last album and that oochawally shit. i do hope and fell that he's back from that terrible turn down the pop alley and back to the realness.

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

Would I be less cooler if I spoke in proper English?? Which most of you seem to lack the knowledge of..So let me be down and kick it in words you might understand....Check it, Bryant Gumble (Hillis) your str8 up a fool, with an obsession of Dec 18th and Nas's joint dropping, why dont you pick up a book while you wait...Tiandra, how much do you really really love Nas Escobar?? What is he trying to be the Columbian drug lord like Pablo?? I'm not even going to respond to Qooluot until he learns how to spell....its Analysis. not Analyzes, you monkey...Hey keep it real, cause I know you maricones(half-wits), to be polite, are keeping it REAL STUPID!!!...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), October 29, 2001.

Manny, if you keep posting messages here, the INS is gonna realize you're here without the proper visas. Hope you find your green card, you cockroach. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 30, 2001.

Hey Manny! For someone who professes to be an "expert" in the English language, I'd like to point out some rather elementary mistakes on your last posting. First of all "less cooler" is incorrect. It should be "less cool". Secondly, ending a sentence with a preposition is a big no-no, as you did when you wrote "...lack knowledge of..." Addtitionally, it is Gumbel, not "Gumble". Lastly, you forgot to include an apostrophe in the word "don't". I'm sure these are just minor oversights on your part. By the way, there is no doubt that you are entitled to write whatever you like on this thread. We welcome your ignorant and racist remarks, as they serve as a reminder why we have border patrol in this country. As a person with Hispanic blood in me, I must state that your are an embarrasment to Hispanics and Latin Americans that read these postings.

-- dmac (mccarthy7@yahoo.com), October 30, 2001.

Manny, look man, whatever you tryin to start is not necessary. I can speak and type proper english but I'm not going to respect english like that. English is a bastardized language and has no pure form. Back centuries ago, english was as complex as spanish and french with variations of verbs and nouns. But the common people of that time made it simple. We speak this language how we want to. Who knows, it might be standard eventually. English is not the original language of my people, while you're at it. English was forced on my ancestors who spoke in rhythmic pattern. The language of our ancestors flows. We also used to communicate by drums, and all that was taken from us by force. But, we've found many ways to make this languge fit. Over centuries we've found ways to sing it. Now comes the new way, Rappin it. Hip hop is a way to bring the rhythmic pattern back to English. It's also bringing back the drums. The true essence of hip hop is not the lyrics but how the lyrics flow together and go along with the beat. Maybe that's what scares all you hip hop haters!!! The culture is coming back!!!!!!!!! That's why hip hop was under attack long b4 it beame gangsta. But anyway, to compare and contrast. Nas, at his fullest potential, is a master lyricist. As long as his production fits him, he is unmatched. Give Jigga credit for **knowing** how to lay down tracks. Not to many show that ability. This compensates for his average lyrics. But, even Jigga can sneak some tight lines every now and then. I still don't like where he stands. But back to you manny. We speak however we want on this post. It doesn't have to be "proper" in order for everyone on here to understand what is said- which is the overall goal. If "intellects" can't keep up then they need to learn how WE speak. Oh yeah, I have a degree in Civil Engineering and have passed an 8-hour exam to complete stage 1 of 2 to being a professional engineer. So study hip-hop for what it is, an art!!! Regardless of the government/industry perpetrated Gangstaism in place to destroy it.


-- SecondSage (secondsage@yahoo.com), October 30, 2001.

Manny, I was wondering something about you. In your "English as a Second Language class," why did they give you an insane pride in spelling, but leave you with a complete lack of grammatical skills? For example, you can only use one or three question marks (not two). And then there's "Bryant Gumble (Hillis) your str8 up a fool." Not only is the sentence grossly ambiguous, it's "you're!" It's not "your." Of course, this is followed by "What is he trying to be the Columbian drug lord like Pablo??" Here, we see the notorious doubled question marks. The sentence also has no grammatical base. The last straw is the failure to separate "maricones" and "half wits". It should be "...maricones (half-wits)..." Work on it, amigo. I'm sure you'll be speaking understandable English in no time. You cockroach. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 30, 2001.

Hey. I'm interested to hear what ya'll really think of 'Dre as an MC. Obviously he's on point when it comes to producing and harnessing new talent, but I've always thought he was a bit underrated as a lyricist and rapper. Then again, my tastes have always gravitated to the melodic, straight foward west coast flow, as opposed to the more intricate and creative, though sometimes more offbeat, east coast style. By the way, I don't mean offbeat in a negative way either.

-- dmac (mccarthy7@yahoo.com), October 30, 2001.

Once again Manny you are saying nothing. Everyone has already pointed out your ignorance and they have left me with almost nothing to criticize. Also, I try not to criticize fools, but since you brought it to me…here goes: 1st of all, I ordered you to respond and prove you lack knowledge. You did both. Then you say you won't address Qoolout until he learns how to spell. Okay, YOU misspelled Qoolout and by saying you won't respond, YOU RESPONDED. Cuz, get some sense. You are making it too easy; you're embarrassing yourself. Do you care? Just go ahead and bow out now; have some self-respect. And you still are faking like you are a God. I told you before, you are above no one. And Dmac, don't feel embarrassed. Every race has a few ignorant peeps. It just so happens that Manny seems to be an example of the extreme. Back to you, Manny. When you post again, before you post, sit down and try to come up with a point. Try to say something that (God forbid) makes sense and let us get back to the topic of rap. We can even discuss rap haters…Would that make you behave? My bet is you'll ignore all the advice you've been given and you'll just post some more nonsense, thus proving my point further. You know you want to, so go ahead and do it. Leap frog. LEAP


-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

not trying to sound totally ignorant, but what does "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE" mean? didn't have the energy to look it up.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

who are you Bryant Gumble??

That's fantastic. I love you guys.

-- Ally (garance80@yahoo.com), October 30, 2001.


-- LOX (HOT97KID@HOTMAIL.COM), October 30, 2001.

First of all, LOX, we know it's not a spelling bee, but cuz opened the door, so we had to call him on that. And second, you are 100% right. I'm feeling Jada more than any of them other so called rappers. Did y'all hear the remix he did for Mary? "We can hit the dance floor now, you ain't gotta wait/ We can take this outside, you ain't gotta hate/...And we don't need no hateration/ Somebody better calm dude down, cause the eight'll lace him. LOL. I'm not feeling the entire song, but come on Jada is bringing it. Ask Beans. Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

yo I understand that this ain't a spelling bee and u were callin' this nigga out but lets drop the grammar and spelling lessons I hear enough in school anyway. I'm a spelling bee winner like 3 years in a row but when I come here its entertainment not a research paper, lets just have fun and not worry about that, this is about rap and we all know rap ain't grammatically correct. Also Gay-z is done and alot of niggaz is better, even Jada is better but personally I don't feel kiss and thats just my steelo. I think he sounds to soft on the mic I always hated the damn LOX so I have to hate on Jada do, he doin his thing but I don't give him much props, he ain't all that lyrically just allright which is fine if you back it up with a dope voice or delivery but he doesn't he's week. Theres still a lot a niggaz better even in the state raps in now. I ain't startin beef or tryin to piss peeps off thats just my opinion and I think I'm entitled to it if I have some evidence to back it up so anyone wants to respond go for it but do it in a way that is informative and proves a point and not dissin a personal belief just because it differs from others. I think that this page would be a lot better if peeps did that. Its about respect. Put the racism and ignorance to rest and get your point across with out insult then it might actually be accepted or taken to heart instead of str8 up rejected cause of a diss. I ain't tryin to be Mr. Rogers or nuttin but lets just discuss and debate and not worry about petty shit. God Bless.

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

It's dropped as far as I'm concerned. But I just wanna say I didn't make it into a grammar lesson, if your statement was meant for me, Karl. But on that note I've been trying to get the discussion back to rap and maybe we can do that now. Also, I would never just diss a person because he/she had a different opinion. Scroll up and you'll see that. I've been disagreeing with peeps on here left and right for the longest, and that's all it was, no beef, none of that nonsense. Anyway, I understand you not liking Jada, but tell me who it is you are feeling. I haven't been able to get in contact with a soul who has that first L.O.X. Badboy cd so I can't speak on that, but he brought it on every double RR guest spot and on Vol. 1 and 2. And you know I'm feelin' "We are the Streets." Honestly, I expected his solo thing to be better than it was, but he still flowed better than Jay, in my opinion of course. I know there are many Jigga fans who disagree but I say Jada's Flow was better overall, but Jay had the better beats and hooks maybe, thus that is one reason why some are feeling Hov over my man, but to each his own. Lastly, I like how Jigga didn't have a lot of others on his CD, I think Jada should have done that and more of the other "quality" rappers too. All those weak peeps on your CD makes the stock go down. I'll leave with a quote from Kiss: Chicks that I went to school with, a seed now/You know Kiss, stocky bald head, light brown/ Ice down, in my roll look like nighttown/ To all y'all lil' Jada's for the 1000th time/ I don't recall hittin' your moms or writin' your rhymes/ And just because you might've seen me, in and outta your house/ Ain't no way she gonna have a baby outta her mouth. LOL. HE BE FLOWIN' Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

ok, i guess no one took me seriously. really, what does "HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE" mean?

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.



I don't like gay-z but that don't mean I'm hating it means I think he's garbage I don't want his damn rims or $ he plays that shit out talkin about it so damn much. I got rims and a system I don't need gay-z's bitch ass $. I dislike that queer cause he has a lot more potential than he puts out, he's fake as hell. that bitch made nigga could get slapped up by the real mcs out there. O and another thing. I was so pissed that slim did a song on blueprint "renegade". Slim is slippin big time by messin w/ pop ass fake rappers like j he needs to stick to the royce the 5'9's and d12's and dre's out there. he was the realest but if he doesn't watch it he will play himself.What does anyone else think about this situation?

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 30, 2001.

Yo Karl. Em did dat shit wit Gay-Z on "Renegades" to prove exactly what you were talkin' 'bout, dog. Gay-Z is garbage in terms of lyrical flow and timing, especially when paired up wit someone wit razor sharp skillz like Em. Slim straight up scorched dat track, effortlessly, while Jigga stumbled through with his trademark weak- ass, crackling, Sesame Street voice. But you know what, I really don't hate Gay-Z, for real. I think his rapping talent and contribution to hip hop is overrated, but he's got skilz on the business side of the game and puts out some gay happy shit that at makes folks bounce.

-- Maz (moto99@excite.com), October 31, 2001.

cool I could respect that and pretty much agree. Em did blaze that frikin track. and I think thats the main reason i dislike gay j because he's so damn overrated and doesn't deserve his props.

-- karl (krazykarl_33@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

hey qoolout or any other jadakiss fans! what album would you recommend to someone who hasn't really been into kiss in the past? would it be something from the lox or his solo joint? i think his track off of funkmaster flex's 60 minutes is hot.

-- maz (moto99@excite.com), October 31, 2001.

Hey maz, if U wanna hear his best work, listen to the L.O.X CD, "We are the Streets." He's coming hard on there, but like I said before, RR Vol. 1 and 2 are nice too. But I think his best showcase has been on "We are the Streets." I expected more from his solo thing, but I was still happy with it; speaking of that, see if you can listen to "Kiss is Spittin" or "Feel Me" from his solo joint. If you are mainly into beats and tight hooks, I admit that Jada probably ain't the one for you, (Swizz only did two tracks, I think)but if you wanna hear some well written lyrics or just some witty funny stuff, he's the man. Holla, and let me know what U think. P.S. His diss towards Beanie was hot too.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

Yo thanks qoolout! I'm definitely gonna check out "We Are The Streets". For everyone else, what's hot right now? I picked up DMX's latest joint and feel the first half of the album is straight. The second half is pretty disappointing, especially the shit with Stephanie Mills and Faith Evans. Nothing against the sisters, but as most of you know, that R&B chick shit is played out, especially for someone like DMX. So I'm wonderin' what y'all got in your cd players, stereos, etc? I've been listening to Nas' "I Am" a lot lately and if you cut out about 5 or 6 weak ass tracks, that album would be pretty fuckin' tight. It's just a few filler garbage tracks like KISSING and Dr. Knockboot that bring it down a few notches.

-- maz (moto99@excite.com), October 31, 2001.

Lot of stuff to respond to.

A) Dre as an MC is horrible. I realized this when on "Nuthin But A G Thang" this fool had the nerve to say, "never slip, cuz if I slip, then I'm slippin." Boo! Then further proof is that Jay and Em ghost write for him. Dre's flow is so weak. He may have started this rap shit, but he sucks on the mic.

B) As of now can't nobody from the East Coast with Jay. Jada, DMX, Nas, none of them. However, Eminem laced Renegade up 10 times better than Jay, and Jay's verse so tight. But Em took better lyrics and even better flow and just served Jay on Jay's on album. So while people wonderin who the King of NY/East Coast is, they're forgetting that shit don't matter cuz Eminem is better than all those cats and anybody who can eat up Jay is #1 in my book.

C) How many times is Nas gonna drop an album and all you people who fiend for Illmatic gonna keep saying he's gonna be back on top again? Look, Illmatic was tight. It Was Written had some quality tracks. I Am was a tad pop, and Nastradamus was just straight boo-boo. I mean, Nastradamus was the epitome of a tight rapper fallen of. That shit was so garbo. So now all of a sudden Nas will regain his stature. It's possible, but I say don't bet on it.

D) I ain't tryin to hate, but why do people expect shit from Jadakiss? That nigga ain't all that. That's why Jay-Z's remix ate Jada's up. That nigga's waek. Beanie Sigel's flow and delivery is so much better than Jada's it's not funny. Jadakiss and the rest of the Lox need to retire. Everything out the Lox camp is straight counterfeit. They need to get they own style and stop trying to be Biggie Jrs.

E) See, lox. You say you don't want to argue with me, but then you try to slip in little remarks about NY runnin it. Do you not understand that Jay and Ja Rule are the only NY cats that could go platinum? The rest of the NY rappers are lucky to go gold. The South, however, is the place to be for platinum plaques. Where else can a fat white boy named Bubba with average skills go platinum? Down South, baby, because with our production skills, we turn anybody into a phenomenon. Anybody. Realize who really run it, "dunny."

F) Where's Manuel Guervera? "Hasta la Victoria siempre" literally means "Until the Victory always..." Now idiomatically, I'm at a loss. But just like his shit English, it makes no sense.

I'm out.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), October 31, 2001.

Hillis, i appreciate it. manny's disappeared, so i guess he's given up on his victory. now 3000, i totally agree with most of what you said. matter of fact just about everything you said. i don't make so much of a deal about goin platinum, but if you're in it for the fame-much of the south is using the correct formula. Jay is using the correct formula. Nas, i don't know what the hell he's been doin. true, he said he'd bring back "Nasty Nas" this time. but he's said that before. as i said earlier, won't believe it til i hear it. a couple of singles won't do. worst thing in the world is unrealized talent! the talent is definately there but.... lastly, i love and miss Pac, and i'm hesitant to say this to many of his fans, but we've got to move on. to say there will never be another, is like saying there will never be another Jordan. there won't be!! but there will be iverson's, vince carter's, tracy mcgrady's, and more hungry, talented cats who will leave there own mark. hip hop is not hardly gonna die with Pac and Big. and to be honest, jay is actin like shaq in this hip hop league. love him or hate him, he's MVP right now.

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

I feel you for the most part Hillis concerning your last post, but I gotta respectfully disagree with a few points. 1st of all, I'm sure more from the east have hit plat, besides Ja and Jay and I think Tim helped Bubba. But anyway, I don't think we can put much credit into sales anymore. We got downloading, bootlegging, etc; that will make 1 mill harder to reach. On the other hand Nelly sold a couple mill and he is hardly the best in my book, so sales mean close to nothing, if you ask me. Next, I guess we all know I'ma rep it for Jada. He is no Pac, but who is? I'm feeling him more than any other right now; and I never really felt Beans. I know some people listen to music for the beats, others for tight lyrics, and so on. Me, I like to hear stuff that makes you think, therefore I'm feeling Jada (Nas, & Em sometimes), sure he has a few party songs, but I don't think you'll catch him flowing about nonsense. He's deep at times, and when he's not deep, he's giving you wit and/or humor. Now those who listen for the tightest beats, may have to put in some Dre, because he ain't got the best flow, but he brings the beats/hooks. And to Maz, I agree that "I am" is a hot CD if you delete a few cuts. Lastly, I gotta say, yes Jay is at the top, but there isn't much to compete against right now. Time will tell if he can hold that spot. I doubt it, but time will tell. Another Jada quote, enjoy, LOL: For every check I deposit, it's just a new burner in the closet/And the big one'll kill you, ya brother and ya pops quick/Might take one slug to get y'all both/ Cuz muthafuc--, I'ma make sure I hit y'all close/And whoever's left guarenteed he gettin it all/Cuz he coulda ran when I was lickin' at y'all/I get rap money, plus I'm in the hood wit dimes/And I ain't got no felonies, I'm good wit crimes/ Not all dat wit macs, but I'm good wit nines/Great wit eights/ Dogg, I'll heat ya face/And I got a hungry lawyer that'll eat the case... Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

Whats up Cheerleaders (Coolout with a Q, Bryant G, and the other monkey Don Was) I have been busy with work and Graduate study that I did not have a chance to retort, but I also want to be concise...Bryant G, as for your Green Card comment, being born and raised in Queens, NY qualifies me enough, but as stupid as most Americans are you would think of that...Qoolout, if your in school taking your Gen-Ed Req's. trying to major in Bus.AD. or Psych finish up your Tupac 101 class first before you ever want to debate with me...Don Was are you another African wannabe?? Most of you call yourselves Africans but you have never even been their...I worked in Mozambique for two years with the UNDP and have more knowledge of your cultural roots and that is sad!..When you children get older send me your C.V.'s, that's Curriculum Vitae for you idiots and if you really don't understand that it's called your resume.Don't put worked at KFC for 10 years and enjoy listening to Nas and DMX because they are real either..Well some of us have a Thesis to finish...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), October 31, 2001.

Manny! Ese! I thought you bounced on us! So what's the graduate study in? How to sell strawberries on the side of the road more efficiently? How to safely cross the Rio Grande? Speedy Gonzalez vs. Cheech: Who's more like Tony Montana? Mariachi bands and taco cuisines - "la musica y la cena?" Good luck, you cockroach. And thanks for helping me with my C.V. I'll put I listened to Master P instead. And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 01, 2001.

Hey, manny you forgot someone. You didn't respond to me. So what you been in Africa two years, you're probably part of the problem over there. Hiding your Racist commentry behind your education. All western education is, training you to think like the powers that be. No wonder you discredit hip hop, Hip Hop is out to break the status quo. Which means everything you value will not have as much weight. See, I read between the lines. I'll expose you. You won't respond to me because I break you're little myth of Hip Hoppers having nothing else. I have a degree just like you, b*tch!!! But I don't profile my education like that. All it's good for is showing the powers that be you've been trained to be obedient. You lap dog!!!!!! I've seen how educated fools are made. Hip Hop can stand on its own. We don't need to listen to anything else. We don't need your approval to be "cultured". Who's culture anyway??? Hip Hop is OUR culture. Assimilate or be out!!!

And Secondly, to who this may concern. True hip hoppers do not use record sales as a measuring stick. You can get away with beats, some of the time. You can get away with lyrics, most of the time. But never, I mean ever, say someone is great based on record sales. I have to tell you the truth, I wasn't really a Pac fan. I liked his very first album. And I liked his second to last. He would still be here but he let bishop get him killed. But I do think Pac and Big would have gotten the game straight if they were still here.

And Lastly, Nas has shown steps that he is trying to bring Nasty Nas back. He had the potential to be the Michael Jordan of Rap. Pac Wasn't!! Nas can just rebound and show you he one of the greatest. Over time you'll see He'll outshine Jay-Z. Emenem is Nice. I can't fromt. He will be the Elvis of hip hop!!!!

-- SecondSage (secondsage@yahoo.com), November 01, 2001.

hey y'all obviously ain't post in a while. So I am gonna get y'all up to speed. Jay's answer I know u mr. Nas the (fame)/but along with celebrity comes bout seventy shots to your frame/ nigga u's the (flame)/ you's the fag model for karl kani esco ads/went from Nasty Nas to Esco trash/had A spark when u started but now u just garbage/fell from top ten to not mentioned at all/ till ur bodyguards "Oochie Wallie verse is better than yours/ Matter fact you had the worst flow in the whole fuckin song/But I know the sun don't shine/if the son don't shine/That's why your (lame)/Career's come to an end/It only so long fake thugs can pretend/Nigga, You ain't live it/U witnessed it from your folks pad/Scribbled it in your notepad/ and created your life/I showed you your first tec/ On tour with Large Professor/then I heard your album about your tec/ on the dresser/So yeah I sampled your voice/You was using it wrong/You made it a hot line/I made itt a hot song/And you ain't get a coin nigga/You was getting fucked then/I know who I paid god/Serchlite publishing/Use your (brain)/You said "been in it 10"/I been in it 5/Smarten up Nas/4 albums in ten years/I can divide/ that's one let's say every 2/2 of them shit's were doo/One was ehhhhh/the other was Illmatic/That's a 1 hot album every 10 year average/And that's so (lame)/Nigga switch up your flow/your shit is garbage/what u trying to kick knowledge/Y'all niggas better learn to respect the king/Don't be the nest contestant on that Summer Jam screen.

respect the king

-- Kyle Bostic (k9_show@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.


-- Lox (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

Manny, there u go again, spitin' nonsense. Dogg, you gonna have to say something that makes some type of sense if you want me to take you seriously. You know you like rap, otherwise you wouldn't be on here posting. Come on outta the closet. Is it you lack the skills to speak about the deep aspects of rap, or is it you just enjoy taking nonsense? You claim you are in school....Do you have a point? Manny, you still gotta convince me. Now do me a favor...post some more foolishness...I wanna see if you can out do the last piece of garbage you put on here. So once again, I order you to leap. LEAP Qoolout

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.


-- Lox (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

manny? not hardly worth it

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

Second Sage, Here you go. You wanted to getin the mix and you have said nothing. You can join your cheerleader friends with all that "its our culture,our culture non-sense".keep it...As far as profiling my education, I said I grew up in Queens, all my degrees are from Universities in France, but you probably think that the best education only comes from your "great nation" the U.S...why dont you try learning a new language or travel a little bit, have a purpose in your life!! Make a difference!!-A Lifewithout a Cause, is a life without Effect...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA......oh yeah I forgot to mention the other monkeys but Im on the other side of the world, so I have some time, before you get up and listen to NAs's CD for the 885th time....

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 01, 2001.

Manny! I learned a new language. Listen: "Yo soy gato loco mio tuo espanol si vosotros ustedes. Me llamo computadora y el sabado es il buena suerte. Yo tambien nosotros hablara con russas y montanas. Mi amigo ser ir al cinema y cosas noches son la playa y par la plage. Hasta la victoria siempre!!!" That's for my boy, Manny. Bryant Gumbel know a lil sumthin, sumthin. My nickname at school is "El Nino." And for those of you who "no habla espanol," El Nino is Spanish for... THE NINO! And that's real. Bryant Gumbel 3000 signing off...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 02, 2001.

HAHAHAHA Gayz shit is fuckin garbage for real. i liked him before he started getting really cocky. his crew is bullshit, i dont think anyone here (sane anyways) could possibly imagine gayz,beanie bitch, and memphis ass cheek, chould ever win a battle against nas, jadakiss and prodigy. thats what i thought see. and probably the only reason why the dirty south is sellin is because they have nice beats and a catchable choras. gayz is going triple platinum and shit only because white boys trying to be cool dig him, ever since big pimpin id say. he dun got in some shit he cant dig himself out of. Nas,MOBB DEEP, LOX, Terra Squad, and the whole fuckin QB is gonna light his ass up. he only has beanie and memphis to back him up, i think DMX lost alot of respect for him going pop and all and Ja rule is ok but hes doing joints with j-lo then screaming the murder in the very next song, singing about cheating on his girl then turning around and singing i only think about you. and did any of you see gayz on BET lying his ass off about the whole beef shit? man its pathetic hes trying to make ppl not dig nas or p by saying they all just started attacking him lyricly and shit what a fucking pansy. got asked about the takeover song by free and responded "yeah um i was realeasing my emotions on that one song, i hope we can now respect eachother now" bullshit still trying to play as the nice guy. and BIGGIE is the king of newyork, now and forever but greatest alive in ny is Nas, you cant deny it. jayz hides behind good beats so people wont notice his wack ass rhymes, sorry gayz but timbaland's beats aint gonna get you outta this one.

-- Big Jon Stud (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 02, 2001.

I got a few things to say first JADA, JIGGA, and NAS have good qualities as MC's. But JADA dosn't change the style of his lyrics, by that I mean he takes a Timbo beat like "Nasty Girl" on his album and raps the same way he raps on "Kiss is Spitten" two totally different beats. And he follows the same bar rythem in each song.That is not nessesarly bad thing but the songs would be better if he followed the beat. Plus It is a quality that B.I.G and pac both had and they are the two best MC's of all time. Jigga did a good thing by going back to his roots with the "Blueprint." Big JAZ was the main factor behind his rythmical style on "Reasonable Doubt" and the goodfella's, godfather type style of gangster lyrics worked. The "Blueprint" had the slow soulful beats but the "Reasonable Doubt" type lyrics were not there. He needs to go back to the style that gave him popularity. Nas had my respect with "Illmatic" his usage of soulful old school beats and poetic form is what attrated so many people. But that was 1994 and the younger generation dosn't take notice to that style. Jay-z has a similar style but he change with the times. Nas is trying to do the same thing and it did not work with his last two albums.I think he can regain popularity by using his old style. There are some like myself that likes that type of style he uses, and me being 16 not every kid is looking for a crunked beat to party to.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 02, 2001.

Yeah, I saw Jay on BET talking about these people are coming at him because he's on top. He was asked about the greastest rapper in his opinion. He said "If not me then who?" LOL whatever. So the host said "Well, besides you, who?" And he went with the bell out answer: B.I.G. Of course I say Pac, but we've been down that road. Did anyone see the new deathrow movie, "Welcome to Deathrow"? It's a new release at BlockBuster. It's tight; it tells how the east west beef started, how deathrow got started, it shows Snoop at an award's show faking, and Suge was calling out Bad Boy while he was on stage. It also talks about how all of these people are supposed to be scared of SK. Hip-Hop fans should try to see it. Hey LOX, did you hear that Fiesta remix with R. Kelly and Jada? My man says, I don't pimp, I just keep my hoes in order/and I keep my neck filled with frozen water/ we usaually in jeans, but it's linen tonight/ we spendin' tonight/ and everybody spendin the night. Ha ha. Hillis, you gotta translate that one for us. Don, why didn't I think of that? LOL

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 02, 2001.

FUCK SUGE KNIGHT. Hes the reason why both BIG and PAC are dead. the bastard admited when the drive by was happening pac tryed to jump in the back seat but suge pulled him down. the bitch ass also said that even if he knew who did it he wouldnt tell, punk ass motherfuckin bitch!!! i couldnt believe that shit. Tupac was leaving DR to start his own label called makaveli records or somethin like that and he couldnt stand to see his number one man to leave cause without him DR wouldnt be shit(which its not now) PAC used to be my favorite rapper of all time but i think he ran his mouth a bit too much and i liked how biggie hardly gave in to it and ignored it. BIG could also switch styles from fast to slow like on notorius thugs and i hope you niggaz sleep. but they are the two greatest and will never be topped. its a shame that rap has came down to rappers on everyone talkin about cars, money, and ice, big did that but not on every single song like cashmoney be doin.

-- Big Jon Stud (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 03, 2001.

I have a question: It may seem odd to you, but I don't get it.. Why would anyone brag about sellin' crack? I mean, what's the point? I'm supposed to think you're cool because you sold drugs to your own people? And then, to add insult to injury, I'm supposed to go out and BUY your CD so I could pay to hear you say that garbage? I know rappers nowadays are fond of talking shit, (for lack of a better word), but could one of you Jay-Z/Nas/LOX fans help me understand why these people are going platinum?

-- Enigma (enigmatic@yahoo.com), November 03, 2001.

Yo Enigma. They go platinum because of the music, not necessarily because of the lyrics. Delivery and production go a long way in rap, and quite frankly, if the production or delivery of a song is lacking, no one will buy it. However, lyrics aren't necessary to sell in rap. And that goes for any type of music. For example, @Pac could talk about crack babies mommas, then talk about killin Bad Boy, then move on to his mother, then back to Bad Boy, then tell a story about him and his gun, then lament the state of Black America, and then kill Bad Boy again. All of the time, he would sound tight because his lyrics, flow, production, etc. all SOUNDED GOOD! What makes Creed, Luther Vandross, Marvin Gaye, Jay-Z, Travis Tritt, Faith Hill, Red Hot Chili Peppers, NYSYNC, Matchbox 20, and Chrisina Aguilera sell? For the most part, they sound good. If Luther sang about slangin crack, it would still sound good. You might be like: "Yeah, right, Luther. Stick to romance." But it would still sound good. And Jay- Z/Nas/Jadakiss/MC Get Busy/MC Such n Such, etc. sound good to at least a million people, regardless of what they say.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 03, 2001.

Hey Hillis, you posted something on Nov. 2. You gotta break it down for us. What does it translate to in english? Hollywood, I feel what you say about Jada not switching up his flow, but that's his style. I like him mainly because of his content, but that won't appeal to everyone. He doesn't really need to change up the tempo, but I will admit that when B.I.G. did it with Bone it was one of his best verses. LOX, I haven't debated with too many females about rap, but the ones that I have... YES, they all got me frustrated. Oh yeah, when I mentioned that deathrow movie, I meant to also mention that it tells how Dre and his crew were trying to go somewhere other than Ruthless records, but no one would take them, so every time Dre made a track dissin' Easy-E, Easy was getting paid. I didn't know that, but according to the movie, Easy (before his death) made money off of every Chronic CD sold. Lastly, Enigma, you are supposed to buy the CD because it's entertainment. It's music. It's like when we pay to see a movie where the hero kills like 500 of his own people. It's just to entertain. Nine times outta ten, it's all false anyway. P.S. I just heard soemthing new by Nas. It may be called, "Check Yourself" but I'm not sure. But I am sure it's hot. It's a deep flow and it makes you think, so of course I like it.

-- QS/ Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 04, 2001.

"Yo soy gato loco mio tuo espanol si vosotros ustedes. Me llamo computadora y el sabado es il buena suerte. Yo tambien nosotros hablara con russas y montanas. Mi amigo ser ir al cinema y cosas noches son la playa y par la plage. Hasta la victoria siempre!!!"

I am cat crazy my your Spanish if you (plural) you (formal). I call myself computer and the Saturdays is the good luck. I also we will talk with russians and mountains. My male friend to be to go to the movies and things nights are the beach by the beach(plage is actually French). Until the victory always!!!"

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 04, 2001.

I listen to hip hop because I am intrigued by the lyrics and find the beasts to be pretty cool. But what disappoints me is how poorly our black people misuse their fame and status. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know it's not their job to be role models and all that shit. But, c'mon. All these rappers do is bitch about the system, bitch about their environments and bitch about the lack of opportunities for their race. In the meantime, they flaunt an unrealistic lifestyle and emphasize overindulgence and materialism to a listening audience that, generally speaking, can't attain it. As a result, you have a community of black folks (like the one in which I live)that drive around in Escalades, wearing FUBU and Timbs, but can't support their 6 kids from 6 different women, while living in their Auntie's house. But damn, their freakin' SUV is spotless and hooked up with a dope sound system and twenties. I don't deny the power of the hip hop culture and it's influence on society. As a young black man and high school teacher, I know that the music is entertainment for many of who can separate fact from fiction. Unfortunately, A LOT of black (and white) youth cannot make that distinction and are led to believe that their only means to wealth and material success are to dunk a ball, sell rocks or spit rhymes. Cats like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kweli might not be the most aesthetically pleasing to the ears, but they deserve props for making an attempt to use the hip-hop vehicle in a positive manner. I don't mean to bash our race, but sometimes I feel helpless trying to turn these kids on to education, when all they want to do is shoot hoops, fight or listen to music. Honestly, they have the same opportunity as a white kid from the suburbs to go to college and establish a professional career. They might have to work outside of school and apply for grants and scholarships, but the opportunity is there nonetheless. Although there is some good hip hop music, the majority of it perpetuates a stagnant, lazy, selfish, disillusioned and depressing community of black folks.

-- Brian (briang8@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.

All these rappers do is bitch about the system, bitch about their environments, and bitch about the lack of opportunities for their race.

Brian, I appreciate your frustration, but I just don't understand what you're talking about. In hip hop there is ten times or twenty times more celebrating than bitching: celebrating skill, motion, deftness of rhythm and rhyme, toughness, flash, a dance back and forth between voices and beats and danger. I don't see where Jay-Z is bitching about anything in "I sell ice in the winter/I sell fire in hell/I am a hustler baby/I sell water to a well." Certainly there's some bitching in hip hop - and there damn well should be - but that's just a small part of the game. Even people like Trick Daddy and Trina are ambivalent, complicated people (the word I'm looking for here is "artists") - they talk in one breath about how they're forced into being thugs and hoes and then in the next about how proud they are to be what they are and how good they are at it, and then make themselves sound amazing in the process. I think you're talking here more from your frustration than your knowledge - in any event, I wish you'd be more specific rather than talk about "all these rappers" across the board. I do admire you for being a teacher and for trying to do what you're doing - it's a difficult job that I would never dare to take. But I hope that as a teacher you're giving respect to the intelligence and style that exist outside the academic track, and sometimes outside the law. Because without that respect, you'll come off as if you're just trying to talk people out of being themselves, rather than helping them find another way to be themselves.

What music by Common do people recommend? I've always avoided the guy, because everyone always makes him sound like spinach. I mean, is he merely good for you, or is their joy and love and fun, as well?

-- Frank Kogan (edcasual@earthlink.net), November 05, 2001.

Common is indie. Therefore his earlier stuff is better, by law.

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.


You are absolutely right. I am guilty of generalizing and stereotyping, for which I apologize. I am frustrated. Non-hip hop music has bad influences too. Dudes like Marilyn Manson and Ozzy Osbourne aren't exactly positive musical forces. Columbine wasn't in the inner city. My concern is with my people and the effect of the music on their expectations and perceptions of life. I think a lot of the folks on this thread like Frank, Hillis, Qoolout, Second Sage and Maz are intelligent, articulate people who obviously have a passion for the music. I enjoy reading all of your comments and, in hindsight, apologize for disrupting what was a positive and engaging dialogue.

-- Brian (brian8@yahoo.com), November 05, 2001.

Bryant G. (Hillis), I have been away for a liitle bit, but I was reading your messages and I applaude you for your effort at kicking some spanish, although what you said did not really make sense, you did try. Again, I applaude you..."A Life without a Cause is A Life without an Effect"......HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 05, 2001.

Frank: Have you heard "I Used To Love H.E.R."? A good classic single that encapsulates all of Common's strengths and weaknesses in four minutes.

-- Ian (ilx@brown.edu), November 05, 2001.

yo! I give it to nas dat lil flow was tight but he still aint came back. He just another hata hatin on Jay-Z he aint came back form dat time when Jay-Z shut him down on the blueprint. I can break nas in freestylin'think about it Jay-Z have had what 6 to 7 cd's out and nas only had 3 to 4 and nas been in tha game longer

-- Devin Izzard a.k.a in`famas (lil_bone20012002@yahoo.com), November 06, 2001.

Hey Brain, no need to apologize. If some facts were laid down and now you have a different point of view, then that’s one thing, but you didn’t disrupt anything. If you disagree with a point, let it be known. I am also upset about the state of rap and I hope that I am wrong, but I predict it getting worse before it gets better. But as long as we keep this thing constructive, we all learn from each other. And as far as Jay having more CDs….LL’s got more than both of them, but that doesn’t make him better, and Master P has a lot too, and we all know he’s not the best rapper. Lastly, never been a fan of Common, so I don't really know his work; I just know I don't like it.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 06, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 06, 2001.

Gracias, Manny. Yo quiero saber que si te gustan las hamburguesas! Me gustan las hamburguesas mucho! Mi restaurante favorito es il "McDonald's." Ques es tu restaurante favorito? "Taco Bell?" La cena mexicana es muy bonita, no? Yo espere que tu puedo comer muchos tacos a la Nueva York. Buena suerte in la escuela. Hasta la victoria siempre. Y eso es verdadero. Bryant Gumbel 3000 salgo...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 06, 2001.

If you haven't heard Jada claims never to have a problem with Jay and he got in touch with Beans to squash it. DMX claims Jay is a friend of his. Jayo felony hattin. If we (the fans) stop boosting this shit it won't end up like that 2pac and biggie shit. There both great rappers and for those who don't know Nas did start it. But hopefully they'll be big enough to end and let hip-hop progress. If they both decided to go out now they'll go out legends. Stop comparing there first albums. Compare both there 2nd and both they're 3rd and so one. Then you'll have your answer. Hip-Hop 4-ever unless we kill it.

-- Gina (Caramel_53@hotmail.com), November 07, 2001.


-- LOX (hot9kid@hotmail.com), November 07, 2001.

All of you that are talking about who started the beef between Nas and Jay-z think about this. If you guys remember a little rap group that went platnum in 1996 by the name of "THE FIRM." Y'all remember Nas the bonified leader AZ, Foxy Brown, and on occasion Nature. Think about this you have an up and comming rapper at the time (Jay-z)and he does numerous collabos w/ Foxy, and has AZ in one of his videos, plus one of his first hit singles has a sample of Nas's voice on "The world is yours" one of Nas's first hit singles. Jay-z was like the invisable 5th member of the group. Nas from what I herd turned down Jay to join the group. Rejection is a bitch! A need for retaliation aginst Nas. It makes sence because Foxy, and AZ are mad cool with Jay, except for Nas.I think by using Nas's voice, getting his Firm associate Foxy to be on THREE ALBUMS consecutively and also putting Beans and Amil on AZ most reasent album I think it is Jay tring to get in the head of Nas.Hopefuly neither of the two does anything rash to end thier carrers perminetly.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 07, 2001.

Jay-z is da number one rapper in the game for a few reasons: One, he's been the most consistant (From 96 till now he came out with a better than average album 96, reasonable doubt, 97 Vol 1, 98 Vol 2, 99,volume 3, 2000 Dynasty, and now 2G1 Blueprint, the best album right now. Whew!!.None of these albums went lower than platinium except Reasonable doubt, which went gold.Two, he can talk about anything, from blings to kings, streets to beefs, nuns to guns. Three, he proved that he can out battle alot of cats (even though he took the beef with prodigy a little too personal), his diss on Nas should really wake Nas up, so that he can make an album reminescent of illmatic, which was way better than reasonable doubt (sorry Jay gotta go with nas on that one.Four, he can back up his claim that he's the greatest better than anyone. Whatever the beef is, please keep it strictly on wax. one

-- Joseph Pittman (J_dolo@nvctc.com), November 07, 2001.

This thing did start a few album back. They've been on bad terms for a while. Memphis did put it out in the open. But Nas decided to take shots at Jay and the whole crew b/c of something bleek said. Nas should have left that between him and bleek b/c that shit with him and Jay was deaded a while back.

-- (Caramel_53@hotmail.com), November 07, 2001.

Like Jay-z said B-4, the greatest ever in the rap game are Biggie, Nas, and Jay-Z. They are the Holy Trinity of Rhyme. If Jay-Z's the Father (J-Hova), Nas is the son (prophet sent to earth to kick knowledge),then Biggie is the Holy Spirit.One by themself can take over the whole game; together (if Biggie was alive), they could have took over the industry. 2-Pac was ill, LL was smooth, but as far as lyrics, punchlines, and distinctive flows and indifferent word plays, no one was better than the Holy Trinity of Rhyme. Now imagine if Jay- z and Nas squashed the beef and came together to do a one time only album, it would be the beginning of Armageddon even as we speak. Peace, and I give a shout out to the firefighters, the police and medical personal at GROUND zero and bigger shouts to the troops overseas, now this is the beef we all should care about! Peace, and God Bless America. One.

-- Joe "J-Dolo" Pittman (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 07, 2001.

J-Dolo, how can you say Jay-Z Nas and BIG make up the Holy Trinity of rap? Nas has one good album. BIg has one good album. Jay-Z's success lies in production. You can't really believe them cats is better than Pac. Pac has a bigger fan base, more hits, and he's just better in general. You must be from New York with that Holy Trinity. Free your mind. Longevity in the game means a lot. Jay is the only one with any resemblance of that. And he's only been in it 5. Rethink your shit dog.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 07, 2001.

J-Dolo fella, I Have to argree with Bryant G. (Hillis) on this one, you can't be calling JayZ,Nas and BIG the Holy 3 or whatever you called them. what about MC NEW YORK (aka Tupac), L.L., Ice-Cube, KRS- ONE. maybe even Snoop Dogg.....and Dont give me that God Bless America crap. God Bless everybody, cause there are innocent human lives in Afghanistan that are being lost everyday due to these strikes or do you believe CNN and the DOD only.....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.. MANNY GUEVARA....

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 07, 2001.

Yea, that whole trinity stuff I don't agree with either. I respect the fact you got love for all 3 MC's but, Holy trinity! If you were going to put any rappers in a Holy Trinity form of some sort you have to start at the begining of the game with the originators the cold crush brothers and so forth from there. The true patriarchs of the rap game.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 07, 2001.

Not to get off of the trinity subject or anything, but everyone go to this site thaformula.com/interviews and read how my nigga P rips Jay Z saying that he only showed that picture at Summer Jam because Mobb Deep were banned from performing there. He also says that if he was a real nigga that he would have shown up and the Source Awards, but he was no where to be found. Another thing for all you cats that feel Jay Z is lyrically better than Nas...... GET REAL!! Look for yourself at some of Nas's in-depth lyricals at Ohhla.com..................IT'S GETTING CLOSER TO STILLMATIC!! My fault duns the formula site also talks about how Jay Z had a private phone conversation with Cormega asking him about the status of Nas and P. This so called King of HipPop is a fake yall better realize that!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

I didnt mean that they were the holy trinity of "rap";i just said that they were the holy trinity of "rhyme". Rap itself is the overall music ability (beats, rhymes, patterns,etc) i'm talking straight out lyrics, and how they're put together, how they are said, and the ability to flow from the top of the head. Jay-z and Biggie, from what i heard from reliable sources that worked with them, never, and I MEAN NEVER, had anything down on paper! And Nas,even though he probably have written, listen to illmatic, and youll see that he paints vivid pictures of his life and the street life;basically, nas is a natural poet, and Biggie has the charisma, and Jay-Z has the flow. I'm not talking about the best ever, I mean the best recently. LL may had sold more records than all three of them, but lets be honest,right now would he be able to mess with jay-z, nas, or biggie, he barely got by canibus (no respect to canibus).

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 08, 2001.

I gotta agree wit Best. No way is Jay better than Nas if you listen to the content; it’s not even open for discussion. And no way is Nas, Jay or B.I.G. better than Pac. I mentioned LL to prove that a lota CDs does not mean you are tight i.e. Hov. He can flow, I’ll admit that, but if I had a percentage of ROC, I’d put out a lotta CDs too. But that’s neither here nor there. About this so-called rap beef…that’s all it is. Rap. And we as the fans can hype it, all day long, but if it turns to gunplay, that’s not something, I feel, you can blame on the fans. People hype stuff in high school, you gotta be man enough to not feed into the hype. Also, we really don’t know who started it. The person who rapped the first diss didn’t necessarily start it. We may never know what caused this, but I agree Jay got childish by showing them pics. One last thing about B.I.G, I like him as a rapper and he was better than Jay in my book, but he gets no props for not responding to Pac. He said it himself that he wanted to respond, but Puff advised him against it. But then he makes a video dissin’ Faith? An R&B singer and the mother of your child? But you say nothing to Pac? Come on, that’s a punk move if I’ve ever saw one. Oh yeah, we never know if they are freestylin’ or not, so they get no points for that. Just because they don’t write their rhymes, that doesn’t mean they are spitting from the top of the head, they just have it memorized, and that’s not freestylin’.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

As classic as Illmatic was, as of now Nas cannot fuck wit Jay. Everybody who argues for Nas always goes, "Illmatic! Illmatic!" Or even worse, "Wait and see how tight STILLmatic is!" First of all, Nas has one classic and that one makes him better than Jay? Please, Reasonable Doubt and Hard Knock Life (in my opinion) are both better than Illmatic. But even if you disagree, you cannot say any of Nas' other shits (literally, shits) can touch Jay's. Jay's worst album (to me, Vol 1.) is 20 times better than weak ass Nastradamus. And it was written had some great cuts, but overall it barely touches any of Jay's album. I Am was good for a month, then I never listened to that bitch again.

Second of all, the "Stillmatic" is supposed to be tight. Well, "Born Again" was SUPPOSED to be tight, but it was disappointing. "Tha Doggfather" was supposed to be tight, but it was disappointing. Hell, Jay-Z's "Volume 3" was supposed to be the "Thriller" of rap albums. But that shit definitely didn't live up to it's hype. The point is, just like the majority of BIG's fans, you guys jump on the potential bandwagon. BIG had the POTENTIAL to be the best MC ever, but was cut short, but some people give him the crown anyway with only one classic under his belt. And y'all doin it for Nas. Everybody screamin "Stillmatic! Stillmatic!" Well, I'm gonna scream "Nastradamus! Nastradamus!" The album and the gay ass song...

Think about this. I'm a TN Titans fan. They suck right now. Sure they was the AFC champs two years ago, and the NFL's best team at the end of the regular season. But they are still 3-4 now. Until they turn it around, it would be naiive of me to say they're better than the Rams, Raiders, Pack, etc... Remember that Nas fans.


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 08, 2001.

not to get too far off of hip-hop, but i had to respond to manny's comments. i'm still a little ill about the monkey statement which was way out of line, but i agree that many innocent lives are being taken and many of us need to open are eyes to that fact. america was pissed after the sept 11 tragedy and our leaders knew that to satisfy our anger they needed to bomb something. and they've been doing that without direction and we've been silent to the fact that we are taking innocent lives. i do apologize for getting off of the subject, but God bless america? i don't think so. God bless us all!

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

what went on with d12 throwing rocks at esham? anyone know?? the tupac thing is like the princess diana thing. sucky.

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 08, 2001.

Some peeps listen to rap or music in general just so they can nod their head or pump their fist. There’s nothing wrong with that. All it takes to satisfy these kinds of fans (I’m not one) is a good beat or a nice hook. Jigga’s CDs have both. As far as content goes, like I said before, Jigga can not touch Nas. I listen to the words and I like songs that have some type of point. I’m not saying that the song has got to be deep; I’m only saying tell me something and show me you put some effort into your rhyme. Girls, girls, girls is a perfect example of a meaningless song, so is Nastradaums. Izzo has an okay beat, catchy hook, but that’s not what makes me like a song. It does sell. So if the question is “does Jay out sell Nas?” Of course he does, but as far as who puts out better content, I say Nas. If you disagree…well, to each his own.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

i can't help think of "'nads" everytime i read "nas" anyone else have that problem? howbout Mr C? "fure feelin mind in motion flowing like a river into the ocean"...

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 08, 2001.

"FUTURE feeling mind in motion" god i just cannot control my fingers

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 08, 2001.

My question is, why does either rapper give a damn about the other. Are they fighting over who's better or who is the most real, or what? Like Jay said, "What you eat don't make me shit". So who cares make your own damn music cash your check and be EASY. I also believe that though their hatin each other theres still a mutual respect b/c nobody waste their time on bull shit. I mean ain't nobody messing with Nelly and he's walking around saying he's #1. That's b/c nobody cares. I also believe that's why Jay didn't trash Jayo Felony and the others they just weren't worth it. "I like them both"

-- (danny017@blackplanet.com), November 08, 2001.

god i just cannot control my fingers

that usually results in pleasure though, no ?

-- Vic (iodine999@aol.com), November 08, 2001.

Bob and Vic, take it easy with that all that pleasure crap, you clowns wanna hook up email eachother..Im trying to have a dialogue with my young brothers and sisters here...everybodys talking about illmatic, illmatic, holy shit it ain't the bible fellas. name three songs besides "lifes a bitch" and "NY S.o.M." on that album, without looking it up...Don Was did I hurt your feelings?? You have not said anything constructive till your last message so I will upgrade to a Chimp, ok?? .....Bryant G, que fue mi pana?? ...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.. MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), November 08, 2001.

As for you Qooluot, yoou claim to look for content and but you have not once mentioned RAKIM..your a young buck who only knows NAs and Jay-Z, so it would be a waste of everybodys time to listen to your content nonsense, when all you listen to are the mainstream songs like evrybody else. you wanna be thug punk kid. RAKIM pick it up, he has plenty out there....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 08, 2001.

Nelly was #1 though, on the charts. And he probably will be again. But he's so laid back and unpretentious, even on that track, that nobody seems to care except for the underground pop-haters, who he reserves special bile for.

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), November 09, 2001.

biggie only had 1 good record? haha ok whatever you say and born again was tight, listen to song number 17 and 4. Tupac ran his mouth too much and maybe some people are into bullshit like hit em up. Hills, first i think you said that selling records doesnt make you a good rapper but then you go and say that tupac had a better fanbase (white people generaly) whatever

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

Speaking of "beefs" and "dis" records, I'm curious to see which "dis" tracks y'all think are best of all time. Off the top of my head, "Hit 'Em Up" by Pac, Cube's "No Vaseline" and Eminem's recent slam on Limp Bizkit/Everlast "Girls" come to mind. Of course most old school rap was based on lyrical battling, but what do y'all think are the most scathing verbal assaults of all time?

-- maz (moto99@excite.com), November 09, 2001.

See Manny, I figured you had left it alone; I thought you had learned your lesson, but I guess I was wrong. I guess you enjoy me pointing out your ignorance. First of all, you have yet to correctly spell Qoolout. Take your time, I think you can accomplish this small task. Second, why do you keep hatin’ on me? Why do you have such an infatuation with Qool? Why do you like peeps pointing out your juvenile writing skills? Don said he had no time for you and still you try to pull him into it. Learn to spell “you,” and "everybody's" before you address me again. You've never been to Africa, and who cares if you have? And what does that have to do with anything. And I never said I was a thug, so what are you talking about? Why are you such a fool? If you disagree, then disagree and leave it at that, simpleton. For some reason you want me to keep showing just how ignorant you are. So I'll do it again. For starters, I did mention Rakim before, so you were wrong. Second, Rakim is gone. I give him props for paving the way, but that's over now. I don't usually mention record sells, but they meant more back then. Remember his last CD? Did it even go wood? If it did or it didn't, what is your point? I know you aren't saying his flow is better than the people that I've mentioned. He paved the way, but today he is in retirement and I suggest you let him stay there. Just like the old heads in B- ball. They were great back then, but that was then. Ra doesn't wanna see Jay, Nas, Em...none of them. Pac is dead and his stuff is better. And stop lying about being in school. Your foolishness, shows me that you NEED to be in school. Otherwise, why would you criticize me for only speaking about Jay and Nas. 1 that's false and 2 they are the topic. Get some sense. Oh yeah, if it's a waste of time to read my words, WHY do you respond? Are you trying to be comical or are you that much of a fool? Lastly, since you have accepted my other dares, here's a new one: Say something about rap. Make sure it contains NO nonsense. Okay? And see if you can say it intelligently. Yeah, I know I'm asking for too much, but just go try it. Maz, I think I like Cube's diss the best, but Jada's was hard too.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

justin timberlake has good flow. (every month?)

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 09, 2001.

Big J, you can't be serious! Considering that "Born Again" was made with up to date beats, had mad collabos, and took 3 years to come out, that shit was a MAJOR disappointment. You said it's tight and told me to listen to 2 songs. Yeah, right! C'mon, dawg, the only good songs on that album were #4 (wit Cash Money) and "Dead Wrong." "Rap Phenomenon," "NOTORIOUS," the song wit Snoop and Busta Rhymes, and the song wit Beanie were stomachable. The rest of that album was a disgrace to BIG's legacy. How Puff gon let that weak excuse for a follow-up come after Life After Death? And I can say with a straight face that Ready to Die wasn't all that good, either. The production was suspect. "The What" and "Big Poppa" were the only classic tracks. "Warning" was good, too. So yeah, BIG had one good album, but that album happened to be the best album to come out of New York.

Big J, don't get it twisted. Any SUCCESSFUL rapper has a fan base that is predominantly white. How does any rapper sell? Of course rich young white kids put em over the million mark. Be realistic. BIG's fan base was white kids, too. And Nas, Jay, whoever. You can't fault Pac for having more white boys than BIG. And how racist was that statement?! White folks can't like/know hip-hop? You're a waste of time Big J.

The best rap diss ever was definitely Hit Em Up, and anybody who thinks it's "bullshit" (i.e. Big J) really shouldn't have a discussion about rap, because your thinking is obviously flawed.

Justin Timberlake can flow? Really? On what?

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 09, 2001.

i appreciate your response to manny's ignorance. unfortunately i don't get on this thread daily, so by the time i read his nonsense you had already responded. i was so close to stooping to his level as i scrolled down the thread and you saved me the grief. i try not to involve myself in pure ignorance because it gets personal and we really don't know eachother. manny, did you hurt my feelings? well, yeah. though you are no brother of mine, it does hurt me to know that people of color are continually holding eachother down with hateful words, let alone racist words. if you need to direct anything in towards me, do it as a man. i promise to show that same respect. otherwise there are many sights that would welcome your views on black people. by the way, are you an auburn student?

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

Qoollloouut, Tu eres un nino, que no sabe nada de nada, entiende? Why don't you look those words up just like the new words you learned when you wrote your last message. Guy, I have been all over the world, why don't you try getting out of your suburban hood. You fool!...Don Was, your still a chimp, but I dont want you to take that word as as racist remark. Lesson one, never ASSUME anything. I might have said some things about Hip-hop but I never said that I dislike or hate anybody because of their Ethnicity or Color. O.k. sweetheart?...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA..

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

Ok fellas these are my top 5 Rappers of all time (Living, Dead and Retired, is that ok with you Ms. Qoolout)..Now every rapper had a mainstream song outthere and if you cant admit that, then your as much of a clown as Ms. Qoolout...this is NOT in order..1) Rakim, 2) Tupac, 3) KRS-ONE (he can rip anybody in a free-battle), 4) LL 5)Jay-Z. My Sixth man goes to B.I.G.,died before his time and not much to go on after that. Unlike 2Pac who still drops albums just when you thought he was done...Many of you will disagree and if so tell me yours...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 09, 2001.

(Let me make this clear This message is for those who have been doing this battling BULLSHIT over this board past and present!)

look all of you have strong opinions on who's the best who's not and who can take who on the battle field. Thats all fine speak your peace and respect each others opinion. Look I didn't complain before about this because I thought it was funny just like everybody else. But this is a discussion about rap, and yeah it will get emotional when you talk about something you feel strongly about but the constant insults and duragatory comments is kiddy, for goodness sake! All I hear is I'm a grown man, I'm a grown man! Well age does not play a factor in what you guys(some of you not all)consider a grown man! The character, and willingness to conduct a conversation as MEN! Not the number givin by government to consider indivisuals as leagal adults. I'm 16 and I'm not a rightious person trying to kick positive knowlege to you guys, thats not what I'm here for. Nor am I the posterboy for a positive outlook on rap. I get emotional too with my friends when we talk about it but I don't go as far as insulting his or her race or intelegents. A while back when this guy who posted a message on this board I forgot his name, I think it was "rap sucks" but anyways, he dislike rap and insulted the culture of whole genre. You guys really showed him didn't you when you continued to embarrased our allready ridiculed audience. Let that battling shit stay with in the rappers they will get the idea adventually being dead or alive, you know what I mean! As a diverse world we are not going to agree you know that, but why is the WTC, race, and intellegents have any thing to do with what is you opinion about rap and who you think is the best. Keep expresing your opinion if you disagree with someone or you just want to be herd. But the BULLSHIT is not needed!


-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 09, 2001.

wow hills you obviously must still be stuck on the dirty south beats to even realize the greatness of newyork. i was going to make my post longer explaining my so called "racist" comment but i was at school and there was a white boy staring at my computer. plus i dont think that could even be counted as racist comment unless your some kind of arian brotherhood maniac or some shit like that. your not much of a big fan so i dont think you would get much out of it as i would since hes my favorite of all time and listen to the shit almost everyday so i would be saying gayz's shitprint was good because im not a jayz fan.right im a waste of time, i cant debate forever(thinkin about becomeing a laywer) oh and some more tracks that are good. 4 (cashmoney) 11(meth and redman) 17(nas) 15 i think(the one with ice cube, black rob and shitie sigel) the one with mobb deep in it is tight but like i said im mostly newyork and non-pop when it comes to rap music. and you know Suge knight forced tupac to do alot of those dis songs btw. and LOX your the man keep representin man.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 10, 2001.

Hollywood, shut the fuck up! I been battlin in here cuz I'm a grown ass man, and if me and somebody in here wanna battle. we'll battle. And I said it before: If I say somethin about the WTC and you don't like it, you can kiss my ass, cuz I say what I want. Nobody battlin has said anything to yo ass, but you wanna come at us with what you think about us? Fuck you! I don't give a damn what you or anybody else in this thread thinks about my confrontations.

Big J, that shit about Pac's fan base being white was racist! Why did you say that? What the fuck does that mean? No matter what genre of music, Black musicians usually have a predominantly white fan base, cuz there are more of them than anyone else! But you seem to think that fault's 2Pac's success. Fuck that! 2pac is more beloved than any rapper, he sells better than any rapper, and everyone acknowledges his musical skills. He's the best ever! Plain and simple. Ask niggas, white boys, sand niggas, eses, squaws, whoever. They will tell you that Pac was the man.

Record sells don't mean you're the best artist. But, c'mon. They do mean something. I mean, to sell over a million records, they have to do SOMETHING right. Plus, how else can you distinguish the great rappers? I mean we can argue who's deeper, lyrically wittier, whatever we want all day, but that's all opinion. But sales are based on cold hard facts. Record sales for Nelly, Ludacris, etc. are different from record sales for Pac, Mobb Deep, Jay, Nas, BIG, and other longtime players. Nelly selling 7 million on one album, or Juvi sellin 5 million on one album is different from Jay taking 4 albums platinum over 4 years. That's why I bring up record sales. To distinguish the kings.

Manny, your list needs to take Rakim off of #1.

My PERSONAL list (not my considering all the issues list)

2Pac (for obvious reasons), BIG (2 words - lyrical genius), UGK (Pimp C has delivery that rivals 2Pac/Bun B's wordplay is excellent), Outkast (at LEAST 3 classics - SouthernPlayaListic is the best album out the South), Three 6 Mafia (remember, this is MY personal list - long live the Dirty, Dirty!).


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 10, 2001.

Hills 3000 why are you so hostile when people show constructive criticism towards your actions on the board. You did not even get the idea of my message and you to come out and bash someone who actually repected you by not telling you to shut the fuck up.Yeah I used profanity but not towards indivisuals like you have with me. You can argue your point all you want to about who is the best rapper and so forth. I got no beef with that what so ever. My message was to stick to the subject and not insult each other on views,race,and intellegents. You have your opinion about the WTC if you want to express you opinion do so but don't include them in your battles with whoever. That to me is foolish, and you to take offence like I cussed you out, like some other people have. It is wrong I did not even come to you like that I just spoke my mind and you disagreed okay. But you bashed on me. Whatever motive you have to get under peoples skin is wrong and if you were so grown you would have had the mutual respect for me as I did to you. I did not even mention your name as one of the people who I was talking about. I did not want to put names out like that, but that's okay you wanted that way so you got it.I sill got love for you even though I diagree with your actions towards me. I'll take the high road on this one and tell you to have a nice day Hills.


-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 10, 2001.

My bad y'all, but this here post has very little to do with rap, instead it's dedicated to someone. That's right Manny, it's just for you. First of all, since you have such a love for Qool, let's make this official. You wanna question me so much, and you are so worried about what I type...okay, you broke me down. The answer is, yes. Yes, you can be my hoe. All right, as my hoe, let's get some things clear. We are gonna drop that M from Manny and just call you Anny. Okay? And whoever is reading this, you know that that's how we will address this simpleton, as Anny. Next Anny, you've got to get some intelligence. I can't stand a stupid hoe, and no hoe of mine will be stupid. Thus, you will no longer say foolishness like "I've been all over the world." WHO CARES!?!?!? What does that have to do with rap? Oh yeah, if you gonna be saying my name so much, you gotta learn to say it right. I can't have my hoe disrespecting me. So learn the name, so you can "Say my name, say my name." Also, before you try speaking two languages, learn how to speak one correctly. That "Hasta La Victoria" bull is weak cuz, and makes no sense. Okay, we are gonna keep one thing as it is. You know how everyone on the thread has raped you? We gonna let that continue. I know I can't turn you into a house wife so why should I say "you can only be my hoe"? No, no, everyone can still hit Manny...my bad, I mean Anny. It ain't no fun if the homies can't have none. Holla...hoe.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 10, 2001.

Hollywood, I've said that too many times to count. Scroll up. I've been asking to get back on the topic of rap and we took it back for a second. But Anny had something negative to say and he forced my hand. 80% of what you said, was already said by me. I said that if you wanna disagree, do that and leave it there. But, if someone disrespects me, what should I do? I'll do the same you did. I don't know if you will admit it of not, but you said something negative things towards Hillis; you felt he attacked you and you responded. That's all many of us were doing against Anny. I know I probably should have taken the high road, but what's done is done. Don ask Anny to show some respect. We tried all of that stuff that you are suggesting and I even suggested some of that, but fools (Anny) only understand foolishness. Once again, I'll try to stick to rap, but it's Anny you need to address.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 10, 2001.

Damn, Anny! You gon go out like that?! Ha!

First of all Hollywood, it's Hillis 3000! Hillis! Not Hills - Hillis! Second, you can't take the high road cuz you obviously came after me. You "tried" to be subtle, and you supposedly tried to keep my name out ya mouth. But I'm the only one who said anything about the WTC, so if you mention that I know who you're talking to. And fuck that, I say names. I don't appreciate you tellin me what I should or shouldn't say or how I should or shouldn't battle. If you don't wanna battle, pay us no mind. Write what you write, and be out. Don't try to slide lil shit in on people and assume since you don't say names, we'll just take that shit in stride. I haven't let anything in here slide by me since the first time I posted. Ask Anny, lox, JS, Big J, and anybody else that got shit to say to me or about my region. So, I'm not gonna start lettin shit slide with you, Hollywood. Next time you got somethin on ya chest, be more general, and don't be so specific, you cockroach.

Anny! lol! I know you ain't gon go out like that man's hoe! Ha!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 10, 2001.

My bad on saying your name wrong hillis 3000.I'm not trying to tell you what to do, or try to battle you.And when I did not say your name, that is because you were not the only one I was talking about.It was for those people who were doing the battlin on the board,yes you were one of them but the whole messege was not devoted towards you.If you think I'm just putting on a front by being subtle,you were right.Because I thought If I would come to you with out cussing you out and telling you who you are and this and that you would reply with the same respect.You have opinions,and if you feel I attacked you I'm sorry and not to seem soft.I appologize,but it is hard to see this subject get out of hand.This message is not about trying to get back at you but come to an understanding with the situation at hand.Qoolout you are right you said the same things.And manny has been one of guys battling on this board.But just like Hillis 3000 I did not want to point fingers and name, names because I felt it was not my place to put a face on the problem but speak my peace on the issues that I felt needed to be left alone.This my only message

"It's okay to have cival disagreements on sertain issues.But moraly it is wrong for us to attack one another by attacking each others self being.Ignorance excist but using that same ignorance to fight back is not getting anyone anywere.To move above we all must respect each other and use words not as weapons."

Sounds lame I know but it is how I feel

Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 11, 2001.

Now, Hollywood. I can dig that. Holla.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 11, 2001.

Hollywood, Your last message had me crying. Take of your skirt and grab your fucking balls. "im sorry hillis,im sorry hillis, why dont you send him a christmas present while your at it boy!!. There are people in this world who either Know or Don't Know. Qoolout just Doesn't Know. He mocks my phrase, but yet he doesn't know what it means or what it stands for, but yet he is probably using it. You are a puppet Qoolout, I have been pulling your strings at will. Bryant G is learning, but dont get out of line either boy!!..Oh yeah Qoolout, that "Anny" bit was funny, I enjoyed that one...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

Hey Anny, Hillis already told us what your weak phrase means. Best believe, I'm not using it. But look, I don't even wanna beef anymore. You got your opinions and I've got mine. So we can squash it. People can read our posts and they can debate about who won, me or you. I'll even go ahead and call you Manny. For real. I mean, it was fun while it lasted, but let's move on. No hard feelings from this side. Holla. P.S. I'm glad you liked the Anny bit. It had me laughing, too.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

Qoolout, This was not a competition for me. I can tell that you have a lot to learn because you were out to win somehting that could not be won. I came on here to listen to what people had to say and how they felt about certain subjects and I threw out some of my own ideas in the mean time. Respect. A Life without a Cause, is a Life without Effect.....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

I definitly made this board more interesting, didn't I fellas??..But I still heard nobody answer me on the top 5?? NOT in order I got Rakim,KRS-ONE,Tupac,L.L.,JAY-Z...6th man goes to BIG...what you monkeys think??

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), November 11, 2001.


-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.






-- NastYNaSQB (nas_stillmatic@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.







-- NastYNaSQB (nas_stillmatic@hotmail.com), November 11, 2001.

I cried too Manny!But anyways a day ago my girl told me to check out this guy name 50 cent. She thought I never herd of him but all I know is that he hate Jay-z. So I listened to it over the phone and he kinda fuck Jay up on it.I don't know who he really is so my question is why the hell is 50 cent dissin Jay-z and who started the beef.

I am a liitle slow on things but I figured out that on "some like it hot" song on Jay's album vol.3 he kinda made a comeback somewhat by saying "What the fuck is 50 cent" on verse one.It didn't do anything for me.But my girl the biggest Jay fan said he ate him up??????????? Tell me what you think

Holla back ya, Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 11, 2001.

hey hillis, what albums by ugk and three six do you recommend? i'd like to check 'em out? by the way qoolout, "we are the streets" is hot. like you said kiss is tight as hell on that. i haven't heard his solo joint yet, but it's on my list too.

-- maz (moto99@excite.com), November 12, 2001.

Whatever Manny. You are actually kinda correct. Yeah, I was trying to win and you take that how you wanna. And yeah, I have a lot to learn, but people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Moving on... until I hear Nas' new thing, I won't speak on it. What's the best track in you all's opinion on Blueprint? I can really relate to "Song Cry." Let me know what y'all feelin.' Maz, I told you, go head and get the solo too. And Manny, my fave five, not the best, but my best are : Pac, Nas, Jigga, Jada, and Scarface back in the day. Oh yeah, I heard that Rakim is about to sign with Dre. No bull, I heard it on the radio this moring. LOX, what's the name of the Styles-Jigga diss? Holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

"Never Change" is my favorite cut off of The Blueprint. My Favorite Five are Pac, Nas, Wu-Tang, Outkast, and Eminem. That D12 album is pretty tight. It ain't a classic, and the "shock" theme gets pretty tired, but it's got some funny ass lyrics and Eminem's homies are actually fairly talented. Usually when a rapper blows up and tries to help out his boys, they've usually got wack-ass skills. But D12 can flow alright, and that Bizzaro dude is a trip. Straight up that cat's crazy.

-- Maz (moto99@exciete.com), November 12, 2001.

top 5 lyrically(gotta do that cause that's what moves me), no particular order: Talib Kweli, Mos Def, Ras Kass, Eminem, Nas. G.O.A.T.: Pac, Big, L.L., Ra, KRS overall: right now, i gotta go with Jay

also, Hollywood I felt what you were saying, but you did go a little overboard. I got a little teary-eye'd myself. much respect!

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.

Top cut on 'blueprint'-- "Hola Hovito"

-- DonWas (donpaul1@hotmail.com), November 12, 2001.


-- Darius Hogan (YORKSTYLE247@YAHOO.COM), November 12, 2001.

Yo i completely agree York. These niggaz out here actin like they bold gut when them bullet's come ain't neither one o' dem cat's gonna turn in to Neo and start dodgin'. they all go runnin. In my personal opinion you've damn near posted the most intelligent response i've seen on this board if not all! My respects.... DUN!!! ONE-LUV

-- Donell Lufel (donillmatic@yahoo.com), November 12, 2001.

don't mean shit next to doug-e fresh.

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 12, 2001.

Qoolout, unlike you, I am a man of my word and I ended it but you keep yapping your fucking mouth. You want me to think your an adult, yet your still acting like a child. Lesson 2: Always keep your Word....Hollywood I dont know who 50 cent is, sorry brother can't help you there...Hogan and Donell, What on Gods green earth did you two jokers say in your messages!?! "o' dem' catz', das da bess message anyone has posted?? What,What,What,What,What???...Get a dictionary fellas!!Who said Rakim is teaming up with Dre? Is that true?....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MANNY GUEVARA..

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@homail.com), November 12, 2001.

My man lox, I ain't tryin to call you out, I'm just sayin we've battled before, dawg. But you squashed it, so I did, too. Ain't nothin to me sayin yo name earlier. But on the real, I know 3-6 Mafia is suspect on ANYBODY'S top 5 list, but I love their beats and their style of rap. Songs like "Chickenhead," "2Way Freak," etc. are all songs with tight beats and funny subjects. They're supposed to make yo laugh. They're lyrical crap, but they bang and entertain.In my own opinion Juicy "J" is in today's top rappers, but that's my list. I know good and well, that 3-6 Mafia is not in the top 5 in a list considering all the facts and issues, but 3-6 appeals to the South in me, so I gotta go with em.

If anybody is interested in UGK, they should get they album "Ridin Dirty" which is a Southern classic. #2 (One Day) has Ron Isley so it's an instant hit. #3-#6 are tight, too. #10 is a hot one, too. The other tracks are just good, but the aforementioned are bangin. Also, UGK did a lot of hits wih No Limit. Get "Slangin," "Break Em Off Somethin," and "Playas from the South." Plus get "Stick Em up" with UGK and Ludacris.

If anybody is interested in Three 6 Mafia, they should get "The End" which is personally my favorite album. "Gotcha Shakin," "Late Nite Tip," and "Cash Flow" are hot. There are other good tracks, but those are the standout tracks. I love all their albums, but if you like The End, you'll like the album after that: "Chapter 2.

My favorite cut on "The Blueprint" changes. First it was The Takeover, then it was Hola Hovito. Next was Renegade, and now it's Jigga the Nigga. But overall, I'd say Hola Hovito because that's the best beat on the song.


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 12, 2001.

freedom williams is the best mc that ever lived

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 12, 2001.

Another thing: I heard 50 Cent on this song where he raps about robbin numerous artists with the Madd Rapper. He aiight. He sounds like a cross between Beanie and Jay-Z. On any note, he's a man that only gets half a bar from Jigga.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 12, 2001.

I'd like to submit my list of top 13 hip hop albums of all time. I'd like to know what y'all think. Don't beat me down too bad. Y'all are some opinonated and passionate folks!

13) Raekwon: Only Built for Cuban Linx-It's a must for any hip-hop fanatic like me. Totally innovative lyrics and beats. 12) 2Pac: All Me against the World - I love 'Pac. There's probably better albums than this, but I love 'Pac. 11) Beastie Boys: Paul’s Boutique – Many people have missed this album. A music masterpiece—at least a sample masterpiece. These three white boys improved upon their debut album by putting together strong lyrics with a collage of beats. One of the most intriguing albums of all time of any genre. 10) Public Enemy:It Takes A Nation of Millions to Hold us Back – Brought political rap to the world, while maintaining the soul of Hip Hop. Flavor Flav was a great compliment to Chuck D. Terminator X’s brought loud in your face beats that backed up lyrics which made for a lethal combination of riotous music 9) Wu-Tang Clan: Enter the Wu-Tang(36 Chambers) – Dirty, grungy beats and lyrics from the East. Introduced Method Man and RZA. Concentrates on various different styles of the many members of Wu- Tang. Considered by many, the finest exhibition of lyrics and flow of all time. Definitely brought their own style to the industry. 8) Dr. Dre: 2001 – Long time to wait for a second album! Dre, once again, brings the highest quality of production and popularizes his new simplified version of his old style. He brings in more live instruments, mainly guitars, bass and keys. 7) Notorious B.I.G.: Ready to Die – Great lyrics. The listener could always picture what Biggy was talking about. Creative use of metaphors and similes. Beats lacked a little, but the feel of the album combined with the flow made up for it. 6) Eminem: Marshal Mathers LP – This is where pop rap is at the millennium. Slim Shady’s style is controversial and aggressive. Another artist that give the listener visuals. His delivery is obscure but not hard to get used to. Another feather in Dre’s beenie. Without Dre, Eminem wouldn’t even be a morsel on the map of the rap industry. 5) EPMD: Strictly Business – One of the first to put an emphasis on witty lyrics. Instrumental in developing the east coast street style. 4) 2 Pac: All Eyez on Me - Yeah, Gangsta rap was around for a while by the time this album dropped, but this 'Pac's best? . 3) A Tribe Called Quest: The Low End Theory – Jazzy laid back album with Q-tip working the boards. Offered a popular and respectable alternative to the gangster trend that was. Positive and self help lyrics helped define the difference between Hip Hop and Rap. More musical and less typical was this product. 2) Outkast: Southernplayalisticadillacmusik – These two brought the South to par. Great sounding album. Very free and musical sounding, topped with fast flows and conventional lyrics. After hearing this, it’s not hard to wonder how these guys have had staying power, and have been considered the best rap duo ever. 1) Nas: Illmatic – Lyrics, lyrics, lyrics. Tells stories of growing up and surviving with in-depth emotional words. Tough to beat if you want to hear great, classic style east coast lyrics.

-- P-Dub (pwatson@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

Number 1 Karl, KISS MY GOD DAMN ASS! I been with the rap game since I was old enuff to get the moneys to by shit on vinyl and tape, so FUCK YOU! Number 2, I'm just using Pac/Biggie as an example. I could give you many more, but your fake ass wouldn't have heard of them. And number 3, in the words of my man Jay Hova, "he who does not feel me is not real to me, therefore he doesn't exist, so poof! vamoose son of a bitch!"

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 13, 2001.

i just love the fact you go to the university of gloucester!!!

-- gareth (gareth@norfolkwindmills.com), November 13, 2001.

All rappers brag but gayz does it so much, that faggot better make some friends quick because the whole fuckin QB dont like his ass. anyway unlike most of these new rappers biggie tried to have fun with his shit and hillis what was the name of that song where he supposedly disses faith? i dont know about that 50 cents guy but one of my friends told me that sticky fingers made a song dissing tupacs mom and shit, i dunno if its true and i doubt it. i also heard one of cashmoneys new artist dissed QB on that song with lil wayne, mack 10, baby, and the other dude. could anyone tell me who the fuck is on tommy boy records? cause on song number 3 on the violater cd nore disses it. oh and manny dont call anyone a monkey that shit is racist.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

Hey Manny, I ended dogg. Yous the one being childish. Yeah, I said peeps in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, but I only said that cause you said I gotta lot to learn. That's what you think? Whatever, just keep it to your self, pay me no mind. Ok, you got the last word, you said I keep running my mouth. Can we drop this now? And you can save the lessons too. And I said that about Rakim and Dre. Cuz from EPMD said he heard that they were (Dre and Ra) trying to work out something. I don't really like Ra, but that is what I heard. Oh yeah, the reason why I say "song Cry" is my fave is because I can relate to it. That last verse... we probably all can. LOL. I give it to Jigga right there, he's spittin' the truth. That's your fault, how many times you forgiven me?/How was I to know that you was plain sick of me?/I know the way I was livin was whack/But you don't get a igga back like that/I'm a man with pride, you don't do s--- like that/You don't just pick up and leave and leave me sick like that/You don't throw away what we had, just like that/I was just fu--- them girls, I was gon' get right back. See, that man needs to bring it this way ALL the time.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

chubby checker and the fat boys - doing the twist peeps don't diss that shit jigga

-- bob snoom (bobwest@talk21.com), November 13, 2001.

Hey Big J. That wasn't Hillis, I said that about BIG. I can respect that he never came back after Pac called him out, but you gotta apply that attitude to everybody. He didn't and that was a punk move. (Just like Jay) The song is called "Get Money." Charlie Baltimore is in it and she plays Faith; she's looking just like Faith in it. Plus B.I.G says some things about her in the Flow, like "Tattoo on titty sayin' B.I.G." Only Faith has that tat as far as I know. And Tommy Boy is the label that Naughty by Nature was on back in the day. I don't know who else was on there.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

Jay is tha hotest like he said" holding it down six summers damn" Second is jada.Nas should have never came out tha mouth wit that b.s. Stillmatic.Jay straight carried tha man. If I was him i'll climb in a hole. boyyeeee

-- youngthug (nastynigga@yahoo.com), November 13, 2001.

lets go off subject a little bit,I want your opinion on this one? Who do you think is the best producer,between these people.If I forgot anyone include them in you vote.

Timberland Dr.Dre Suge Night Manny Fresh Swizz Beats Jermaine Dupri

These are just examples you don't have to chose these particular people, but you can.Also say why they are the best to you.We all know that having a hard beat is essential to having a hard song.

Holla Back, everyone answer this one! Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 13, 2001.

Timberland Dr.Dre Suge Night Manny Fresh Swizz Beats Jermaine Dupri

Ok, Jermaine Dupri acts too much like p diddy(always dancing in his artist videos) i dont like manny fresh because all his beats sound the same and cashmoney sucks, and like i said before FUCK SUGE KNIGHT, dr dre is ALRIGHT, id have to say its a tie between Timbaland and Swizz beatz.

haha and id like to hear gayz free style lol

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 13, 2001.

As to the discussion on the best producer, Timbo, hands down. P.Diddydaddydumbass can't talk shit, JD can't say anything but "O" and "Uh-Huh", and as for the rest. NO. And back to the Jay-Z/Nas beef. I heard a couple of tracks off Stillmatic and they are hot. BUT there are a couple of hot joints on Nastradamus, that don't make it a good album. I hope it will be so Nas can get off of Hovas ass. And after Benie cracked a bottle over Jada's head at a recent party, I got another good reason to tell Karl to kiss my ass! And it's the University of Gloucester-fuckin-shire!

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 14, 2001.

hahah where the fuck did you hear that shit? cause i can tell its not true

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

I heard that shit from my cousin who works for the Source's offices in London. There you go, 1-zip.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 14, 2001.

I'm not trying to start anything, but why would the Source have any office over in London? They sell a lot of rap over there? I doubt if there is any truth to Beans hitting my man with a bottle. It may be true but that's how rumors get started. If I see it in Vibe or the Source, maybe it will hold a little more weight with me, but they print the false stuff too. I gotta say Puff is one of the best. Hear me out. I liked his first CD, but not too much after that, but anyway, he makes people hot. It's one thing to make B.I.G hot because he already has a tight flow; so I guess that would be kinda easy, but Mase, Black Rob, that 1st LOX CD. These are not the best rappers, but he made all of these people known. And then you gotta look at how he has signed R&B, rap, pop and even some rock. What other label can say they did all that? Not many. Plus he introduced us to some of the greats i.e B.I.G, Jodiec, Mary J. He ain't the best beat maker, or flower, but when it comes to the biz side of it, I say he's one of the best.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

i hear you, but one thing, London aint shit compared to the Cotswolds

-- gareth (gareth@norfolkwindmills.com), November 14, 2001.

You're right Qoolout. There is no London Source office. That dumb bloke is full of shit.

-- Steve Berman (SBerman@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

"My poetry's deep/I never fell/nas's raps should be locked in a cell/it aint hard to tell" excerpt form "it aint hard to tell" Illmatic. Life ills/

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 14, 2001.

"My poetry's deep/I never fell/nas's raps should be locked in a cell/it aint hard to tell" from "it aint hard to tell" Illmatic, and "Life ills,poison my body/i used to say "fuck mic skills/i never prayed to God i prayed to Gotti" D'evils reasonable doubt.I can go one and one and type their lyrics from the top of my head all day, but these two excerpts are the ones that stick to my mind the most They're both ill in their own right. It goes to show that as far as lyrical brillance, they are on top. Any way, im going to my top ten greatest mc's of all time(D.O.A)in no particular order: Jay-Z, Rakim, KRS-One, Nas, Redman,L.L Cool J (yes i said LL Cool J), 2-Pac, Biggie, Scarface, and either DMX or eminem. if Big L was still alive he could have squeezed into my list too, cuz he would have been on Rocafella pourin out hits outshining Memphis Geek and Beani Siegel. I mean no disrespect

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 14, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

LOX, you can't tell? Yeah, of course I like JADA. He's one of the best right now if you ask me. I'm not from Philly, but I don't know if they are hatin' on him right now or not. Like I said before, he killed Beans in that little diss battle. But yeah I like him...it seems like you and I are the only two that reconize this man's skill. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

until nas's album drops jadakiss IS the best right now. and i didnt see one shot of gayz in Big L's last video.. oh well. man all the neptunes beats sound the same im tellin you, rayj's first video "wait a minute" was by neptunes and he has another video out i dont know the name but the beats are almost identical. and with 300million dollars i could make fuckin Gary Coleman the next good rap star or even a damn pop singer lol. yeah every time i hear a damn fake internet story its always "my friend told me" or "my cousin says" damn bullshit. i think there should be a newyork complamation album (minus gayz) that would be sweat i could picture one of the songs having nas,jada, and mobb deep on it.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

"Salute Me", "The General"

So you call yourself god mc J-Hova/drunk the glass of blasphemy and forgot to pray over/your games over/crossed the warpath of a brave soldier/you're a makeover/my protege trying to "take over"/I was the shepard that led you/but you bit the hand that fed you/YOU MAD CAUSE SINCE I MET YOU I NEVER DID RESPECT YOU/and as hard as it seems you know I fathered your dreams/you's a groupie always begging to be a part of my team/another case of a boy and his teacher/I was the first to poison your speakers/so kill all that noise you preaching/I understand/all your plans to underhand/aired threats of you pulling my card next summer jam/let me make this clear hova/YOU HAD MY LEFT OVAS/she told me your little problem of the night when you slept over/but that's another subject homey/nigga you phohy/I'm coming to collect the debt from the years you owe me/so what you capitalized.....only cause I allowed you/I'm taking aim at your dome/and reclaiming my throne....

How you planned on facing/the half man half amazing/Don't need a fam, Nas is a one man invasion/claim you hot, but you flopped with Roc la Familia/cause real recognize real and your not familiar/call yourself gangsta, but you were begging for pardon/that night in Carbon/when the terror squad flipped on your squadron/Tried to front on their checks/till Pun put the gun to your chest/You said yourself god, "NAS IS ONE OF THE BEST"/Don't need to search for some dirt to expose you/I leave it to my flow to dispose you/when I oppose you/This is it I'm callin' ya/come out and play like "warriors"/studied my blueprint then pieced together your formula/guess the knowledge I speak to deep to follow/that's why your stomach to weak to swallow/The real truth that Nas is/the greatest of all timers/**** "skeletons", I keep only weaponry in my closets.

Check out the new Source with my dun Nas on the cover. Every one go out and cop STILLMATIC on the 4th of December it will be worth your while.

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 14, 2001.

A,yo this is Hollywood once again changing the subject.This time I bring info on the forum.remember a little while back I ask about 50 cent the rapper who got beef with Jay-z.Well I found some dirt about him a lightweight.And for you who didn't know much about him just as much as I did I pasted an article from this website: http://members.tripod.lycos.de/adm/popup/targeted/roadmapcat-1.shtml It's an old article from 2000 but for those that know about him aready you don't need to read any further than this line! If you want more info go to this place and click on the 50 cent picture on the right of the screen.Here is the article.

Ja Rule vs. 50-Cent

Rapper Ja Rule and members of his crew the Murderers, were allegedly involved in a stabbing incident wherein rapper Fifty Cent and two others in his clique were the victims.

According to the New York police department, three unnamed men were taken to New York's Roosevelt Hospital Thursday night (March 23) with stab wounds. The stabbing occurred at the New York recording studio, the Hit Factory. One 21-year-old victim was stabbed in the arm, a 24- year-old victim was stabbed in the stomach, and a 28-year-old victim was stabbed in the hand. The police had no names for the assailants and no arrests have been made.

click pic to read another article about that topic Ja Rule's label Def Jam had no comment regarding his alleged involvement in the stabbing.

Sources say the incident was apparently retaliation for a beef between Ja Rule and Fifty Cent that occurred at a recent concert in Atlanta. Apparently, Fifty Cent struck Ja Rule and the alleged stabbing was an act of vengeance.

Some attribute the ill will between Fifty Cent and Ja Rule to Fifty Cent's "How To Rob" single, which was released last year. In the song, Fifty Cent fantasizes about robbing many prominent rappers and R&B stars, including Ja Rule's friends and labelmates Jay-Z and DMX.

I also found out that Ja is dissing 50 Cent in his verse on Shit Gets Ugly off The Murderers album, he raps "May the law be with niggaz who shout my name in vain/ I'm a Murderer motherfucker, you nigga, loose change/ I get head in the whip probably from your bitch/ Cuz she's a hoe like yourself and it's making me sick".

Other rappers are beefing with 50 Cent too, Big Pun (Rest In Peace) said in My Turn off of Yeeeah Baby, "And to the 50 Cent rapper, very funny, get your nut off/ Cause in real life, you don't know/ I'll blow your motherfuckin head off". And in Jay-Z's song It's Hot off Life And Times Of S. Carter Vol. 3 he says, "I'm about a dollar, what the fuck is 50 Cents?".

And in Sticky Fingaz' song Jackin Beats, Sticky says, "My Sticky Fingaz turn fists across ya jaw/ Beat ya ass in real life at the source awards/ The real Fifty from Brooklyn, God bless he got outed/ You just a fake clown who front and rout about it/ I got a new deal/ For a few mill/ Shoot to kill/ You fruity like Dru Hill/ You spare change you ain't even half a man cuz/ Matter of fact you ain't even half the man ya moms was".

Keep talking and disscussing about who is your favorite producer.I just got my hands on this article and I wanted to share it with yall and see what yall thought about it.

Holla back! Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 14, 2001.

O.K, Puffy does make shit hot, but in all fairness, do you really think he could do it with Bubba Sparxxx? NO! And I don't know why theres an office in London, but thats where my cous works. They do sell a lot of raps over there though. If you want, check out the new joint by Roots Manuva, Listen to him, he can compete with anyone the states has (well maybe not everyone!). But thats enuff about that. Heres another name for the producer discussion shit, Damon Dash. If you don't agree with that, fine. Anyway, don't they got a petting zoo in the cotswalds?

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 15, 2001.

DAMN, someones been lying to me, I feel, kinda, DAMN! I guess my cous is homeless and sleeping in a cardboard box somewhere! He's not the only place I heard the beans/jada shit from though. To be truthful wit you, i dont know if its true, but its what I heard.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 15, 2001.

i dunno, but if beans really did hit jada wit a glass bottle, he's acknowledging dat jada has dissed him royally, and he couldnt stand the heat, so he got outta the kitchen and got the extinguisher (metaphorically speaking) and took out the fire, but dont think for one minute that jada will let that slide, and dont even think that STYLES will think that shit will slide. jada will retaliate wit words, but styles will wit guns. Nore and styles, those some wild niggas. Styles bout to blow up too. Remember who u heard it from first. One

-- joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 15, 2001.

That 50 cent rap is dope. The rappers he went after coulda shot back much more creatively.

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), November 15, 2001.

Who made Budda hot? Tim right? First of all, I'm not even in agreement that Budda is hot, but I like that one song I heard called Ugly. But anyway, Tim did that. Timbo does have some of the bset beats out there. I'm not even into beats like that, but I gotta give it to him right there. But I'm saying his beats made hot people hotter. Jay-Z, the Lox, and whoever else, but he doesn't make the weak rappers shine. Look at Missy, he does her beats sometimes, but that does not seem to help her as a rapper, or Magoo, or even his own solo CD. Point is, Tim's beats make the hot hotter, but he has yet to make a weak rapper hotter. Now Puff has made plently of people shine, who otherwise would have failed in my opinion. And as for Dash, who has he helped? Jay would flow with or without Dash. And Bleek and Beans and all the other ROC peeps are okay, but they are not even close to being hot.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 15, 2001.

"Sunkiss like a soda" was hot , but "I had too many beanie Macs" was hotter.But anyway, Camron is signed to the Roc. I hope that will rejuvenate his career as far as the commercial mass. Stillmatic, as far as I know from some songs i heard is hot. Memphis Bleek's flow gets worst every time. Time for J Hov to use his ghost-writing skills to work. I'm from Waterbury, CT, and theres' cats out here way better than Memphis Bleek lyrically. If only they had the exposure and luck (yes I said luck) that Memp had.I'm not hatin, because I have everything Bleek has (cars, money, house, etc) so there's no need to hate. In a matter of fact, there's alot of underground rappers way better than memp (Mad Skills, Headrush, Khrist, etc)It's all about timing and who u know in the business as well.

-- Joe-Joe (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 15, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 15, 2001.

yeah that song on the violater cd with nore and styles is sweet, chrorus is a little annoying, i also like the one with prodigy and jadakiss on it.

Gayz is the only halfway decent rapper on ROC. one more thing who the bloody fuck is nelly talkin about on that gay ass #1 song. he says somethin about someone trying to copy his style but i dont see anyone making fucking orgasim sound while they rap.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 15, 2001.

I've been looking at this responses for about 5 min. and I wana say that I think B.I.G. is the G.O.A.T. and that Jadakiss has been the hottest in the game since the lox dropped "Money, Power, and Respect". Also the lox are the best group out there. No other group has the kind of combination the lox has. Jada has the clever punchlines, Styles P. has the deep real lyrics that makes you think, and Sheek has that crazy "I don't give F**k' attitude. Does anybody agree with me or am I all by my lonely on this?

-- The Franchise (franchise@webtv.net), November 15, 2001.

I think nas and jay-z are both very good artists. They have two different styles. I personally like jay-z more that's just because he has had more songs that i like.I think that their feud is cool (another way to make $) I just hope they keep it on the c.d's and it doesnt end in anything tragic

-- q-t 3.14 (wjones9@n.crr.com), November 15, 2001.

Whether you like it or not, what i am about to tell you is true, no rumour shit. I think though that the best way to explain this is through the words of one of my boys, understand this, he aint no rapper, but he givin it a go! So if you dont like it dont complain to me, if you do, give him a contract;

Now I got the proof/this is truth, i be tellin/while y'all haters was yellin'/Jay ring shots to yo' melon/That "you know who line"/on the joint "Takeover"/who fucked the baby mama/the one, Jay HOVA/So Nas reply wit some shit about the firm/when he gonna realise that he missed his turn/commish of the rap game/just like Howard Stern/when Esco gonna learn/HOVA the king/Blueprint/the return/So stop the promotion of the shit STILLmatic/fake thug rhymin' bout AK's, automatics/like DRE/hold on, who wrote that shit/JAY

You may not believe me but its true, HOVA has been bangin' Nas's babymama, still dont believe me, then go to http://www.hot104.com/hotwire/10501137a.html nuff said. R.I.P. Ose.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 16, 2001.

Jigga hit Nas' baby's mama. So what? Should I give him more respect now? Who cares besides Nas, Jay and that female? I don't care if Jigga man is sexing Nas himself. And once again Jay is copying my man Pac by even bringing this info to light. Think about it.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 16, 2001.

And another thing, who believes that he's still hitting her, while she is messing with Nas? If you believe that...Oh well. But on another aspect, your boy, or you probably, whoever wrote those lines, he has some skills. For real, I liked it, but I would suggest you flow about your self or something like that, instead of making rhymes about Jigga. Still it was pretty good. Joe-Joe, you know that ain't the only diss Jada put out, right? He got a whole song for Beans. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 16, 2001.

I aint sayin nas was still wit her cos he wasnt, i just thought it adds another little twist to the beef, all that said and done, it looks like the ROC is buildin up quite a team, i still like Amil tho R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 16, 2001.

You do realize that Amil.....really sucks....

-- Big J (Makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 16, 2001.

Yo! i hate to bring up old shit but MANNY MANNY MANNY.... youza immature punk ass faggot, and i hate to have to post such a thing but, i gotcha muthafuckin dictionary right here bitch! I ain't appreciate you dissin my dawg hogan like that you busta as punk. he was sayin that beef IN rap gets people killed which is true to an extent... but if you disagree be mature and say so but don't come out the mouth with those bullshit disses in your posts.... Punk muthafucka! LESSON 1) KEEP YOUR LESSONS TO YOUR GODDAMN SELF! pussy!

-- Donell Lufel (donillmatic@yahoo.com), November 16, 2001.

Yeah i read that shit he put up there too! it november 12th... that shit hogan wrote was tight and then MANNY just dissed him for no reason... that shit was immature! NA NA NA NA NA Manny got dissed out! looll lololo l o oolol ol ol ol ol ! Good Post donillmatic! !!!!! haha haa h ha hah aaoh oi ho ohohoho holo llo o lo lolololo!!!!!......

-- Kareem Joleson (2minican@yahoo.com), November 16, 2001.

Yes I do, I do realise that Amil really sucks, BUT, please hear me out now, she got a unique voice and a nice ass. When shes on a joint you know it aint gonna have a lot of lyrical flair or even ability (unless Jay is on it) but it is gonna be different. HA! as I write this im thinkin to myself, MAN, IM TALKIN SHIT! So fuck it. come to think of it, she is wack. Anyway, dont stop with the producer shit, i like it. But no.1 still gotta be Timbo.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 17, 2001.

By the way y'all, I heard a live tape of Jay-Z last night, and for all of y'all who said he cant freestyle, I bet you havent even heard him kick it before. No.2 producer: Swizz Beats. R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 17, 2001.

DAMN! 3 messages in a row! I just been reading some old stuff up on this thread, the whole Manny(Anny)/Qoolout shit made me laugh man, maybe we should be talkin about you two instead of Nas and Jay. Anyway it got me thinkin about the top five rappers, past and present etc. So, in no particular order: 1) Jay-Z (theres been enough debate, so i aint got any more to say) 2) 2PAC (none of you can doubt me on this one) 3) KRS-1 4) The late great B.I.G (one word - lyricist), and finally 5) hmmm... even though i been hatin' on him cos of the Jay beef, the performance on Illmatic puts Nas in there. I'm gonna have to give P.DiddyDaddyFucker a dishonourable mention in the lyricist catagory. Not only did he rip the beat EXACTLY from Public enemy on "public enemy number one", but he ripped most of the words EXACTLY as well. And if any of y'all doubt me, listen to "Yo! Bum rush the show" that public enemy dropped in '86.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 17, 2001.

Wassup! I'm writing from France. Here people don't even know about Jay-z,Nas or Mobb Deep.People only listen to Eminem,Snoop and Dre.Iknow much about hip-hop and I can say that for now Hova's the best and he's ripped Prodigy and Nas.But I think Nas is gonna change da game with Stillmatic.Mobb Deep was great with Infamous but now they over,even Infamy won't be as dope as the shit. In France people who're really into hip-hop aren't like you americans:people check a sound coz it's dope and not coz it's Brooklin or Queens or Long Beach or whatever. You niggaz should do the same!

-- Paul Nzayo (pn2001@caramail.com), November 17, 2001.

Hay manny where are you,have not herd from you sence the 12th of november.It seems you make enimies every time you make a messege on this board and I want to hear your opinion on my question I asked on the 13th.I'v been waiting on a reply for who is your favorite producer? I think every regular on this message board has answrerd except for you? Come on voice your opinion,I'd like to hear it!

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 17, 2001.

I've read just about all the posts on here. I say 1 of the best from blueprint is All I Need. Jay just rips it up, simple as that. And one of the best gotta be Swizz cause all of his stuff so far is tight. And to 3:16, that Anny vs. Qoolout was one of the funniest things I've saw on here. So like 3:16 said, we should talk about them. How did that start? Who do you guys think won it? Hov

-- Real Deal (darealdeal@aol.com), November 17, 2001.

What up my niggas. I read in the latest issue of XXL that Cormega is in talks with ROC-A-FELLA to join their so called "Dynasty". Well anyways, I'm pretty upset about this because, First, being that Cormega is from Queens Bridge (like Nas, Mobb Deep, etc..) and Damn near everybody in queens bridge hate the Rocafella niggas, ain't he gonna make more enimies than friends? Second, he turning his back on his hood (QB) to join the enemies camp (the Roc) just to make a few dollars. Third, Cormega is by far one of the rawest Emcees to come out in a while (Check out The Realness, or The Testament(Bootleg.) So him joing the Roc camp would be the best thing that ever happend to the dyansty. He'll provide some balance between the mediocrity of Beenie and "M-Easy" and Gay-Z. So that being said, I was wondering how yall niggas felt about Cormega joing the Roc. I personally don't like it, cause hanging around with "Jah-hova" and "M-easy" will probably make that nigga go comercial and he might change is name to "C-money" or some rocafella bullshit. I know a nigga is trying to make it, but I just hope he don't sacrifice his individuality. One

-- Bwrecks (buzz@hotmail.com), November 17, 2001.

the only reason why this beef is good for hip hop is because mabey nas will get hungry again and come with the real.cause if STILLMAIC aint got nothing like the lyrical fire of ILLMATIC nas in my book will be forver written off as the mc who robbed his real fans by tricking us with a misleading album title.CAUSE IF YOU GONNA CALL YOUR ABLUM STILLMATIC YOU KNOW WHAT THE FUCK WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR (ONLY-REAL-SHIT) . i swear if he pulls some nastradumas shit on me i'll never buy another album by that nigga. p.s fuck jay'z jahova iceberg jigga jay peco (bitin off the wu by switch his name)

-- rich (rcpiii@msn.com), November 18, 2001.

nas's illest shit list fast life song verbal intercours song life's a bitch song to my song and a whole lotta other shit ghost face new album is hot image jigga and a ghost battle

-- rich (rcpiii@msn.com), November 18, 2001.

Hello Fellas, some people had a lot to say since I have been gone, but the champ doesn't stay gone for long. So who do I address first??..Hollywood, my young hermano, to me the best producer would have to be PremierW/Gangstarr. Ofcousre there are other producers as well and I am sure you know them....Kareem Johnson? OHHHH papa you sure you want to get in to this??.You Monkey!!....RealDeal? What are you babbling about?? what's your sorry ass story??...Paul Nzayo I ahve been in France for a while, one of my favorite rapers is MC SOLAR, what do you think about him?....To everybody else my Lessons will continue, till I decide that you cheerleaders do not need any more....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE.....Manny Guevara

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 18, 2001.

Now no disrespect to Manny, but at the time I think Qoolout won that battle, yeah you held your own Manny, but Q just kept comin and comin and comin and... well, hell. I been to France too, spent 3 weeks there, and yeah they do got a hip hop culture, Solaar is hot (at least his beats are), but i cant understand a word that boy is sayin'. Movin' on, Cormefega allready has beef wit most of QB, Nas disses him in a track i cant seem to remember, but theres a line about "as corny as corn-mega". Anyway, the ROC dont need him right now (in my opinion). What I want to know is what y'all think about ghost writing, i think theres mans out there who are gettin no credit, but that its thier own fault. If they were to get up in front of the mic and kick it themselves, they could be in the money. But imagine how many albums HOVA would have released if all the track he wrote was in his name. R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 19, 2001.

Whats the dilly, Playas? Im trying to get in on this. I have been reading some of the past messages, this is a funny board. The Manny- Qoolout battle was heated. I agree with you 3:16, that Qoolout kept coming but I gots to give it to Manny. I think He is on a different level than Qoolout in what he was saying.but whatever. Yo Nas is the illest, December his shit is gonna drop and nobody can stop that.Peace.One.-Steve

-- Steve (sakuiack@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

HEY MANNY, what the fuck did i tell you about using the insult monkey? better quit that racist bull you faggot.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

& while we're at it, can we stop with the anti-gay insults too?

-- Sterling Clover (sterling_clover@yahoo.com), November 19, 2001.

Hey 3:16, I respect your opinion, dogg. You gotta respect a man who can admit when he's wrong, like with that Amil thing. And that Mega diss that you were speaking of is at the very top of this page; it's the last line in the verse. Steve, I respect your opinion, too. Of course I disagree, but I see what you are saying. Manny, I got nothing bad to say about you, I'm glad we squashed it, but I'm just wondering who is MC Solar. Is he underground, or what? I think somebody else on here mentioned him too. Somebody let me know. And lastly, did anyone hear DMX's new CD? I was thinking about getting it; let me know what's up if you have it. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

hey Q i heard it sucked so i never bought it, but they could be wrong.. BTW did anyone see the new mobb deep song on bet today?

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 19, 2001.

Big J, why don't you read the statments that I made before about the words that I choose to use and what I mean by them when I direct it towards someone.. pick up a banana and begin your first lesson, you Ape. is that better? and your obsession with Makaveli and the Outlawz is a bit to extreme...Qoolout, MC Solaar is from France, who was real good a few years back and is still nice. Beats,Flow everything was tight, but it's kinda hard if you dont know the language, but I suggest you pick it up and give it a shot, you might like it...Steve, I hope you saw both points, not just mine. but take it easy with that Nas infatuation. HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE.....Manny Guevara

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 20, 2001.

Cormega? On the Roc? Is Jay crazy?! Why add that weak ass nigga to yo camp? Cormega and Memphis Bleek gon come out with a song called "Complete Doo Doo." And then there'll be a remix called "Total Boo Boo." C'mon, Cormega combines weak delivery, average flow, and aiight lyrics. That nigga ain't too impressive.

And then I hear more Stillmatic/"Nas will return" garbage. The nigga ain't Jesus. Nas is disappointment after disappointment. For all of you Nas fans who can't seem to recognize when a nigga has fallen off: Nastradamus (the song as well as the album).

Did someone say something positive about Amil's skills on the mic? Did I mention she would do the hook on Bleek and Mega's two songs? Amil, Cormega, and Memph Bleek need to take some notes from Robert Smith: retire.

Oh yeah, Timbaland is the hottest producer out, with Dre following his heels. But that list of producers is biased to popular/northern producers. True Swizz, Manny, Neptunes, JD, Rza, etc. got it goin on, but don't sleep on that nigga Pimp C from UGK. He been makin sweet beats for a while and I'll put his shit up to Timbo and D-R-E any day. Check out "Diamonds & Wood" or "Look At Me" or any of they shit. UGK is hot as hell. Plus, Earthtone and Organized Noise (the cats that do Outkast's beats) are nice, too. But really, Pimp C is hot as Timbaland in my book.

Manny! Bienvenido! Donde fuiste? Hasta La Victoria Siempre!!!

"And I'm out this muthafucka!" (got that from Bernie Mac)

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 20, 2001.

Sorry i've been away. Anyway I've been reading everything, and this kinda turned into a Quoo vs Manny beef (sorry if I spelled ya name wrong) Q got dat nigga though, no offense to Manny.Any how I couldn't have agree more with whoever said that Cormega shouldnt join the Roc, only cuz of da beef between QB and the ROC. I hope Cormega knows what he's doin. He better not sell out doing some "happy Annie Beats" like Jay. Im not dissin Jay cuz Jay could rap over any beat and "make it a hot song", but Cormega is the streetz and to me he's more street than anyone in the Roc. The "realness" was kinda tight, even though he waited too long to come out,but please Cormega, for the sake of your street credibility (If only you knew how much love you have in the streets in Connecticut, NY and NJ), dont do any "sell out songs" I dont care how much jigga is payin you. Do youreslf. We all know how you bitched out Nature, took his chain AND was rockin it in front of his house. And stay outta jail. And dont fall into the "rock ice rock ice rock ice"catagory. Keep it real and youll still get love from the streets. Trust me. Nas's stillmatic better be as tight as his album title. I heard songs and he's still ill, but the album I heard was an unfinished project, so we'll see when it hit da stores.....Jadakiss, one word, SKILLZ! Style :Raw and uncut.anyway i'm out. be back soon. One.

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 20, 2001.

OK, how y'all doing? Qoolout, MC Solaar is a rapper from France, he's tight, his beats are tight, and if you can get a translation of the lyrics, they're tight to. Big J, the new shit by DMX is, just OK, theres some real hot joints on it, but as y'all know, that does NOT make a good album. Joe P, you right man, Cormega don't belong in the ROC. Now I aint sayin he cant hold his own, but I dont personally think he would fit in. But thats my opinion. If y'all want to listen to a practical unknown, who has flow and who has toght as fuck beats, listen to Roots Manuva, all the way from the British block. His new shit is called "Run come save me". You could describe him as a cross between Emininem and Busta Rhymes, but I guess the best way for y'all to feel this is if I show you what he's talkin about;

Swigging that deep root juice/Now we deh 'pon it boost/Set them spirit them loose/Go 'head go slash up the noose/With conclusive proof of both the truth/The right/'cos whether we hitch hike or push bike/or travel kinda trash/manifest that/with wholesome roots rap/manifest that yeah/I do my zing way/Ain't nutten else I know/Gone up in the life/With this I-ragged born flow/Squeeze the pain from my belly and set my soul free/Travel over ocean land and sea/Faced nuff stress and difficulty/Flung back from the brink/Gwan'ing kind of stink/We don't give a frig about what them fools think/Frig your network/Our dett work will speak for itself/Proof of the trophy/And the champion belt/Come sun come rain come hailstone pelt.

If you can't understand it its cos some of it is Jamaican and some is UK slang shit, but if you need a translation, let me know. R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 20, 2001.

I really dont know much about Cormega, and his skills, and this message board is kinda mixed up between some think he is hard and some dont.My only statement to that is if QB don't like him espesially the bonified leader of queens bridge Nas then he has no reason to still be allined with them.But I am not sure if going to the roc is the best alternitive.I think Jay is tring to get some warriors who will stand with him in this on going battle between him and Nas.And I figure from what I read in the past thredz Cormega has a prominate street image that is an advantage to Jay dispite his talent being good or bad.It's all academic from there!Jay will be fetured on 40% of the album,a hell of a lot of T.V time,you will see him on TRL talking with Carson Daley and so forth.He really has no choice if you ask me.It is a struggle trying to put your self out to the public,and Cormega has not done that yet.Look at me for example I have not listen to him that much and I'm constantly at the store listening to rap.So more than I think people want to admit it the streets can only take you so far then you have to give in to the popularity of the suburbs to get on their awards shows.All rappers may want to stay gutter but that can only get you popularity for so long.The suburbs make the Jay-z's,and the 2pac's, and Jadakiss's. It sound a little dumb at first but think about who made them that big, when you go to an overseas country they know who they are.And for some reason this applies to the rap genre.You don't see Britney Spears in your CD collection do you! I know this has more than likely been said before but it had to be addressed about cormega.Insted of rapping about how the streets made them they need to say the streets started me and the suburbs gave me the grammy.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 21, 2001.

Y'all should get the December issue of The Source. Theres a whole article on Nas and his beef with Jay-Z. It really explains everything good. It also talks about the 2pac feuds and the Death Row shit with Suge Knight, Snoop, Dre, 2pac and all that. But basically the Jay-Z-Nas beef wuz started by Jay-Z at that '97 Summer Jam concert. My opinion of all this is that its sorta funny but Jay-Z is the king of New York and no matter what Nas does he can't beat him. Jay-Z's awesome and the blueprint is a fuckin amazing cd!!! Oh ya, funny lil thing, Jay-Z messed around with Nas' girl hahahaha. lataz xox

-- -$>Steph<$- (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

yo i gotta question, what do u think bout 2pac and if hes coming back???? i think he is for sure...2003 baby...

-- $teph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 21, 2001.

To all my Constituents and Minions, Happy Thanksgiving....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE.....MANNY GUEVARA

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 22, 2001.

My God. This thread is well on its way to developing a sub-culture all to itself.

-- Dan. I. (w1nt3rmut3@hotmail.com), November 22, 2001.

Happy Thanksgiving to all! Hope you get fat just like me today! Finally,represent anybody who rooting for Detroit. They need your prayers for their first win!

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 22, 2001.

I'm gonna say happy thanksgiving to y'all even though I dont do it myself I know peeps who do. yep, that Dec edition of the Source is tight, and after shamelessly trying to promote my man Roots on this thread he got a little bit of recognition. Trust me, hes a rude boy. Anyway, now that Suge is out and tryin to rep Tha Row, we gonna have some proper shit to talk about again. That ma thinks he's going to get back up top again. hmmm...

Hey I know its pretty much done and dusted and all of that, but back on to best producer, here's a new name for y'all; Adam F. He the one who did that "Blow yo' horn" joint with Redman. R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 22, 2001.

Oh Yeah! before I forget this shit, theres lyric off of "The Rulers Back" on the Blueprint. It's explained somewhere in the Source, but if you dont got that here it is;

I help you out, heres what you do/You gonna need a wide lens cos thats a ver' big shoe/You got a couple of /but you dont have a /the situation is /I'ma keep it /Fuckin wit me, you gotta drop /cos if you gonna cop something you gotta cop f'real

Call me a crazy ass muthafucka, but it looks to me as though he's talkin about Beanie Sigel, DJ Clue, Memphis Bleek, Rell, and Amil, hmmm... Shit, y'all probably know this shit already, but if you didn't, there you go. And Amils been dropped aint she. R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (
s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 22, 2001.

FUCK! the words didn't .com out right. MUTHAFUCKERS! DAMN! OK! Here we go again, damn this fuckin' internet shit!

I help you out, heres what you do/You gonna need a wide lens cos thats a ver' big shoe/You got a couple of "Beans"/but you dont have a "Clue"/the situation is "Bleek"/I'ma keep it "Rell"/Fuckin wit me, you gotta drop "Amil"/cos if you gonna cop something you gotta cop f'real

One other thing i just found out. During the week of the WTC attacks. The Jay-Z joint copped 400,000! Damn! R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 22, 2001.







-- STILLMATIC (aidan1023@yahoo.com), November 22, 2001.

Yo! Who the FUCK is you? You call yourself Stillmatic but you never was in the first place, FUCKER! Aint you heard the blueprint you jackass fuck! And what the fuck are you on sayin Nas would shoot Jay if he set foot in QB? Do you even think Nas still lives in QB? I seen all the Qoolout/Manny shit on this thread as i'm sure you have. That shit made mans laugh, and I got no problem in havin' them same mans laugh at you. You tryin to stick up for Esco? HUH? Tell me what hes done that stands out since Illmatic. Do not make me laugh at the too commercial shit you tryin to rip on hove. What the fuck is Nastradamus.

Motherfuckers/say that I'm foolish I only talk about jewels/Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?/See I'm influenced by the ghetto you ruined/That same dude you gave nothin, I made somethin doin.

Tell me when Jay has ever written down lyrics (apart from when he writes for other rappers) and then maybe I'll respect your point of view. Until then bitch, get yo' mind right, and stop the fuckin bitchin'.

hit ya/back split ya/Fuck fist fights and lame scuffles/Pillow case to your face/make the shell muffle/Shoot your daughter in the calf muscle/Fuck a tussle/nickel-plated/Sprinkle coke on the floor, make it drug related/Most hate it

Jay-Z gets more sales cos he the best, simple. So Fuck you. I aint got no problem bringin it, have you, FAGGOT?

R.I.P. Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 22, 2001.

Ya 3:16 knows his shit. Jay-Z's lyrics are fuckin amazing just give it a chance and stop writing him off as gay and pop and shit just cuz of a couple of songs. The Blueprints a classic and u all know that even u die-hard fans of that Esco trash. Well no not necessarily trash he ain't all that bad but he can't compare 2 jigga. And to all you muh'fuckers who're sayin that Jay-Z ain't a battle rapper...ure contradicting ureselves. Cuz then ure goin and sayin how great his song Takeover is (which it fuckin is!) andtheres no way Nas can beat him at that and there ya go...hes battlin and hes good at it rite? Hell ya! And on The Ruler's Back, which is a wicked song, i'd noticed that stuff he said about Beanie, Bleek, Amil etc....whats he mean by it all tho other than the Amil part I don't get it...??? Holla.

-- -Steph- (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 22, 2001.


a yo i gunz from italy/smoke trees considerably/midstate and green it seems where all my niggas be/the ghetto misery/shootouts in liquor stores/a perpendicular angular clout war/police searchin up my lex over,who's petro?/my tech blows straight off the roof i test your respect yo/noone respect me they got me handcuffed, rough life/i just be up nights /breethin with scuffed nikes/pourin beers for my peoples under the stairs/these years i got they name in my swears/poppin cyrstal/like it's my fist child lickin shots holiday style/rockin steal sweaters wallibes down/ 24 karats countin cabage like the arabs/ the marriage of me and the mic is just like magic/elegant performance/bubble lex full insurance/guzzlin geunis shootin catchin cases concurant/IT'S NAS SEVEN HUNDERD WISE KING SOLOMON SIZE WE ON A RISE MY AND G GHETTO WISE GUYS/falucciano franky yayo bugsy segiel/ green papers with eagels from a trade thats illegal.


-- RICH NICE (richiii@msn.com), November 22, 2001.

All you Jay-z luvas out there need to get real. Do you REALLY think this man can take Nas in a mic battle? C'mon! I like J and all, but what really seperates the 2 for me is substance. Nas has an abundance, even on his lesser albums, and Jay-z barely has any. Hell, The Blueprint is one of my favorite records this year, but the whole record is basically just him ridin' his own dick! Where's the depth? The only stab at makin' real sense comes on the title cut at the end of the record. Tell me, what in J's catalogue can even fuck with "I Gave You Power", "Life's a Bitch", "Black Girl Lost", "The World is Yours", the list goes on and on. To tell the truth, who'll win will more than likely be decided by production. If the production on "Stillmatic" matches or even slightly surpasses The Blueprint, then it's Game Ova for Hova. The production on The Blueprint is the best thing about it and Stillmatic will have to stand toe to toe with it to have an impact, but as far as the lyrical battle? Jay-z is fucked, no doubt in my mind and his crew ain't shit! It'll end in tears for the ROC. Peace.

-- Brenya (hatche_r@bellsouth.net), November 22, 2001.

Aiight, I read (beleive it or not) the majority of the posts on this thread. Well I admit I skipped a couple weeks but fuck it lol. So ya my posts b4 were quite a bit outta touch with whats been goin on so sorry bout that! 1st off i wanna say that the whole Manny/Anny vs. Qoolut(so sorry if i spelt it wrong!) and Hillis 3000 wuz hilarious. Manny wuz a pathetic idiot (sorry 2 say) Qoolut and Hillis 3000 were mature but funny about it all so ya, thx 4 the entertainment guyz ;) Also I know it wuz a while back but i wanna give my opinion about how people be thinkin hip-hop and rap are below everything else. I've seen a helluva lotta that shit and well thats what it is, shit. And what people be thinkin about others who listen 2 that music. i'll give it to y'all im a 16 yr old white girl who don't relate 2 much in a lotta the music i listen 2 but i love it still and especially the lyrics. A lot of it really is poetry and fuck those bastards who say rap is mindless and not poetry or wtv it wuz cuz it sure as hell can be. and yeah i love listening 2 all the stories u hear thru the music and about how different all these peoples lives (fabricated or not) are different from mine. and also all the pop fagot bf/gf shit pisses the fuck outta me and i don't wanna listen 2 that! But yeah so I'm really into hip-hop and rap and all and know about it too but then some people write me and other people like me off as posers because of it. Fuck u don't have 2 have grown up like jay-z did to listen 2 his goddamn music and i ain't trying 2 act like anything but myself. it pisses me off. but anyway enough of this shit... Oh ya and im Canadian. livin in Montreal actually (french rap...*shudder*) and i dunno if any of u have heard anything of Kardinal Offishall's. Canadian from T.O and really y'all should give him a chance. Alrite so his debut album ain't exactly 5 mics or nothin but his lyrics ain't too bad and ya know being his debut and all there isn't all that stuff most of u refer to as "commercial" on it. "Yo that kid nice/where he from tho?/T-dot (ohh)/Where the ice at? Oh I see underground MC" im sure his next album is gonna be sicker once he learns some more about the game. the guys got potential, y'all should check him out. peace.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 22, 2001.

Seriously folks. Nas...he's good lyrically. In my opinion his delivery leaves a lot to be desired. Plus, people don't bump Nas all over America, especially down heah in the South. But Nas...he's good. However...folks...seriously...none of you REALLY think Nas is fuckin with Jay-Z right now, do you? I mean, Nas had ONE good album. ONE. I've heard that Nas' lyrics are so much deeper than Jay's. Seriously, are they that much deeper? Come on...really... Nas has nothing on Jay at this point. Nothing. Nas is living (and soon to be dying) by Illmatic, and it's getting old. How many weak ass albums can that nigga come out with before his Illmatic acclaim wears off? I mean, I haven't heard BONE "Creepin On Ah Come Up" or Mobb Deep "The Infamous." I mean, you guys love Nas for ONE album that didn't even go gold, and in my opinion, ain't even in the top 10 albums of all time. Jay-Z has AT LEAST 3 albums as good as or better than Illmatic. AT LEAST! I really feel Jay when he asks, "Do you fools really listen to music?" I mean, do you? For the sake of argument, take away "Illmatic." What else has Nas done to be deserving of acclaim? What else? If I say it now, I've said it 30 times - Nastradamus erases everything good about the Illmatic. Jay-Z would never put his name on that garbage. It's probably cuz Jay has some fuckin musical sense to go along with his lyrical skills. So folks, really. I know y'all think Jay is pop. But that obviously shows me you haven't listened to his albums, cuz he has more street songs on every album than "pop" songs. And Nas has some pop songs, too. You love to call Jay-Z pop, but Nas has taken it there, too. Three words: "YOU OWE ME!" That was more pop than anything Jay has done. Ginuwine?! Why not have Sisqo in that muthafucka... But folks...really...you REALLY don't think Nas can fuck with Jay-Z right now, do you? Do you?

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 24, 2001.

If you are going by who sold the most CD's, I'm with you, Jay got Nas. If you are going by who is better known, I'm with you, Jay wins. If you all are talking about more videos, the most airplay, all of that, than Jay wins. It's no contest. But all I'm saying, and have been saying for the longest is that that does not appeal to everyone. I believe that maybe that is what most rap fans like, but not all. Some people wanna hear songs that make you think or a song that makes you say, "let me rewind that last verse and study what he said." That's what some of us like and that is what Nas has. I'm not saying Jay can't do that. He has some stuff that makes me think, but I'm saying Nas has more. And overall, Nas' last CD was a disappointment, but it still had some deep tracks. I'm not saying it was a classic, but I don't think it was str8 doo either. I guess both of them did there share of pop stuff. Both have done tracks with Mariah Carey; she is pop. I got a few of MC's CD's and I found them under the pop section. Hov just did a joint with MJ; he is also pop. Point is, both Nas and Jay can flow. Both did some pop, both did the hardcore songs, both did the radio friendly songs and both did songs with deep lyrics. However, if you lay out all of their songs, Nas does the deep lyric thing more often than Hov. I'm not saying, therefore, Nas is the best rapper, but that is what makes me like him more. And that's why I see him as the better rapper. And to Steph, I don't agree with everything that you said, but I feel you for the most part. You don't have to come up in it to appreciate it. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

Now, see, Qoolout? I feel you. You, I can understand. You make very good points. Nas is deeper than Jay, thus making him better in your book - and your book alone. However, you do understand overall that Jay is doin more than Nas (i.e. sales, popularity, good albums, lyrics, production, collabos, etc.) So, I'm talkin to the "Illmatic was good, so Stillmatic is gonna be good" irrational fans. And the "Jay-Z is gay and pop! Nas is so street" folks who obviously only hear Jay on MTV and conveniently forget about Nas flirts with hip- pop. I'm not Jay's biggest fan, but I know when one rapper is better than another when I see it. And for RIGHT NOW, Nas isn't even close to Jay as an enterainer or as a rapper overall.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 25, 2001.

What is pop! I know that N*Snyk and the backstreet boys are pop.But really that stuff I said earlier about the suburbs and what not.plays an intrical part in that.It's a sicological thing Jay say he makes song for the streets but in the back of his mind he knows Resevoir Dogs will not sell on MTV only Hard Knock Life will.Watch MTV unplugged when Jay is on their.You won't see him dig into the valut and rap some Reasnoble Doubt stuff! Now I think about it I bet he won't even pull out the Vol.1 for them fools.I have nothing aginst Jay or any other rapper but people have to reconize that you have to rap the stuff that brung you from the gutter to the suburbs.Or just like one of Jay's song title "From Marcy to Hollywood." Where I live you best belive that Vol.2 on up in the Jay-Z collection gets more heavy rotation than Reasnoble Doubt and vol.1.Nas can't live off the succsess of illmatic if you read my very first message on november 2 you will see my opinion on Nas.That's it I'm out! Thanks for reading Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 25, 2001.

OK i was reading alot of earlier post and saw some new things that kinda piss me off

#1 some idiot on september 18th said Nas couldnt rap fast... just how many nas songs have you heard youngin

#2 manny i dont give a fuck what you posted before im tellin you not to use it now

#3 hillis i think hit em up was complete and total bullshit because tupac had no reason, i repeat, no reason what so ever to be mad at BIG that faggot suge knight probably made him make that song.

oh and did anyone see that top 50 rappers on BET? that was some bullshit as well jayz number 2? and biggie lower than that? gay ass online voters i tell yah cause there is no way. i could understand jayz being atleast number 10 i liked him up until that gay ass dynasty record and the beef with QB so i got to give him credit up until there. i think biggie should have been #1 but i dont mind tupac being number 1 cause they both had the same talent but pac talked shit which sold and biggie was laid back which sold but not as much. and of all songs of tupac they play they had to pic california love shit i would have much rather have heard i aint mad at ya.

anyway heres something from bet.com

For those wondering if the Queensbridge MC struck back at Jay-Z's scathing dis on his track "Takeover," the answer is yes. Wasting no time, Nas fires lyrical barbs back at the Jiggaman on the LP's second track, the lethal "Ether." Ironically, like Jay-Z's Blueprint, Stillmatic is mostly Nas and only features the contributions of AZ, Mary J. Blige and newcomer Amerie. Producers on Stillmatic include DJ Premier of Gang Starr, Large Professor, L.E.S., Salaam Remi and Swizz Beatz.

The track listing for the LP is as follows:

1) "Stillmatic (The Intro)" - produced by Hangmen 3 Productions

2) "Ether" - produced by Ron Brownz for Family Tree Entertainment

3) "Got Ur Self A..." - produced by Megahertz Music Group

4) "Smokin'" - produced by Precision for Precision Crafted / Davert Entertainment

5) "You're Da Man" - produced by Large Professor for Paul Sea Productions, Inc.

6) "Rewind" - produced by Large Professor for Paul Sea Productions, Inc.

7) "One Mic" - produced by Nas for Ill Will Music and Chucky Thompson for Chucklife Productions

8) "2nd Childhood" - produced by DJ Premier for Works of Mart, Inc.

9) "Destroy & Rebuild" - produced by Baby Paul for P.G. Sole Productions, Inc. and Mike Risko for Heat Holdas Productions

10) "The Flyest" - featuring AZ; produced by L.E.S. & Staff for Big Things Entertainment, Inc.

11) "Braveheart Party" - featuring Mary J. Blige; produced by Swizz Beatz The Monster for RR / Full Serface Productions, Inc.

12) "Rule" - featuring Amerie; produced by Track Masters Entertainment

13) "My Country" - produced by Lofey for Soundlofer Music Inc. / Desert Storm / Skane Management

14) "Poison" - produced by Salaam "The Chameleon" Remi for Dashiki Productions, Inc.

Bonus Track: "Every Ghetto" - produced by L.E.S. for Big Things Entertainment, Inc.

HELL YEAH SON, also mobb deeps new cd comes out on 12/11 and i cant wait for nores new cd hahahaha QBs the shit.

-- Big J (Makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

I GOT QUESTIONS FOR BIG J since you listed all the tracks for stillmatic did you hear it,and if so was it street, how would you compare it to hov's shit,what are the standout song's to look for and what makes those standout songs.one last question how good does if feel to hear az and nas spit fire again. give me a one to five mic rating.

p.s. if you head stillmatic and it was wack don't reply big j. my day is goin good so far and that's all i need to fuck it up.

-- RICH NICE (richiii@msn.com), November 25, 2001.

i havent heard it, i got all that from BET.com

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

Q, you see, Nas DID some pop but Jay DOES pop ever since that album with big pimpin on it but the nas's was just on nastradomas and a little bit on the cd with "you can hate me now" on it"(eventhough i thought it was a good song but puffy? -_-

Hillis, Nas is basicly a one man army because he doesnt need collabos to boost album sales (not saying jay has done this) its seems like its all about whos on your album these days, god damn i miss good ol mid 90's rap, "grab ya dicks if you love hip-hop and fuck you niggas that shot big poppa" -Ice Cube, Born Again: "If i should die before i wake".

Rap has gone downhill since then and theres not many good cds these days, the newest one i bought was violater 2.0 and born again(someone stole my last one) guess ill have to wait for mobb deeps new cd (dec11) and nas's(dec ??)

oh and i almost forgot, FUCK GAYZ

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

Yo-Yo, whats the deal people!...Not to get off the subject but damn Manny not a lot of people seem to like you kid (BigJ,Qoolout,Steph and more) Where you from son? and whats that phrase that you always write when your done mean? You gonna come back at these MF's or what?....Back to the shit, Hillis I agree with you, but also every rapper goes Pop. but whats wrong with that?everybody always gotta be hard? Biggie went Pop, Tupac went Pop..NObody calling dem bitches....Holla.One. -Steve

-- Steve (sakuiack@hotmail.com), November 25, 2001.

Who was it that made a comment about collabos on records. For the benefit of them would somebody please stand up and say exactly how many there are on the Blueprint. OK there have been a lot on previous HOVA albums (notably vol.2) but that was at a time when collabos sold copies in the stores. Jay is showing he can do a record on his own. Just in case you needed further proof. And whoever said that Nas is gonna live and die by Illmatic, thats the one thing that made the most sense since the start of this thread. Every single time Nas is about to release a CD peeps are shoutin from the rooftops with shit like. "YEAH YEAH! NAS NAS! THIS IS GONNA BE HOT SHIT!", but a week after its dropped they say, "it wasn't that good, but the next one is gonna be real". Guess what? they been sayin that since Illmatic all the way back in the last century. hmmm.... "DAMN, STILLMATICS GONNA BE HOT!"

Wheres that stillmatic dude that talked shit up the page? anyone seen him? anyone? guess not. But speakin of which, where the fuck has Manny gone? Maybe theys the same person?

I noticed a lot of "too pop" chitter chatter up on here. So listen to a lyric straight out of the mouth of Nas, your beloved street rapper, keepin it real...

Nasty Nas to Esco/to Escobar/now he is Nastradamus.

...so let me break it down for y'all: Nasty Nas was hot, Esco was OK, Escobar was LAAAAAME! and as for Nastradamus, use yo' BRAAAAAIN! Thats my interpretation of it. Look at it how you want, but it came out of his own mouth on a track that was so poor I forgot what its called. By my reckoning, if he continues like this its gonna be Nastradamus to homeless. Which i'm sure y'all would like, cos he'd be back on the streets.

Manny come back, COME BACK MANNY! I enjoy readin your shit, even if I dont agree with a lot of it!

And finally, Steph, whos the dude you were talkin about. I like listening to unknown shit, or shit before its got big but I do like listening to lyrics I can understand (so what laguage does it come in). Remindin me to tell y'all to cop Roots Manuva's joint, "Run Come Save Me", in all good record stores now.

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 26, 2001.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA first of all nor biggie or pac went pop. when did you ever see fuckin someone corny as britney spears in one of there videos? just what the hell is your definiton of pop son? mine is forgetting where you came from or doing alot of collabos with corny ass people like so so def, or making a song just for its chorus(not counting dirty south cause thats all they do) yeah theres more. anyway, hopfully ill be getting this cd the same day it comes out and i will give my unbiased opinion even though i hate that fag gayz, ill listen to his too and ill compare.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

All y'all Nas dicklickers can chat all y'all want, but just as Jay pointed out, Nas has got the worst flow in the whole fuckin song. I just checked out the lyrics to that comercial as McDonalds Oochie Wally shit, and I can say myself that even though I thought Nas had tight flow, Hove was right, my mom could flow better than that, I could flow better than that, P.DiddyDaddyFucker could flow better than that! Man, DAMN! and who the fuck was it... Rich Nice... was it you who said try and find a tight Jay flow, well, OK...

from "Where I'm From" from "In My Lifetime, Vol. 1"

I'm from the place where the chruch is the flakiest/And niggas is praying to god so long that they Atheist/Where you can't put your vest away and say you'll wear it tomorrow/Cause the day after we'll be saying, damn I was just with him yesterday/I'm a block away from hell/not enough shots away from straight shells/An ounce away from a triple beam still using a hand-held weight scale/Your laughing, you know the place well/Where the Liqour Store's and the base well/And Government, fuck Government, niggas polotic themselves/Where we call the cops the A-Team/cause they hop out of vans and spray things/And life expectancy so low we making out wills at eight-teen

now, son, do you really want to compare, track for track, I can go on and on and on and on.

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 26, 2001.

Big J let me correct you on that.B.I.G did a cut on Michael Jackson's history album a few years ago called "This time around" and it was not a hip-hop beat either. B.I.G I am afraid to say has done pop! I am not sure about pac but he probrobly has one somewhere.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 26, 2001.

Yeah i remember reading that but how many people out there would refuse jackson? not many even through i think he is a fuckin idiot.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Yo its true, wheres Manny been at??
3:16, the "unknown dude" i was talking bout wuz Kardinal Offishall. Hes not unknown at all in Canada lol he gets quite a bit of airplay on muchmusic. I'm surprised u havn't heard of him. But anywayz u'll understand him hes english. His album's called The Firestarter vol. 1.
Good songs: -Bakardi Slang -Ol Time Killin -Husslin' -Mic T.H.U.G.S
Check him out.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

This is one of my favorite Jay-z verses tell me what you think of it. This from the Reasnoble Doubt album song title Can I live verse 3 I think.

My mind is infested, with sick thoughts that circle like a Lexus, if driven wrong it's sure to hurt you Dual level like duplexes, in unity, my crew and me commit atrocities like we got immunity You guessed it, manifest it in tangible goods Platinum Rolexed it, we don't lease we buy the whole care, as you should My confederation, dead a nation, EXPLODE on detonation, overload the mind of a said patient When it balls to steam, it comes to it we all fiends gotta do it, even righteous minds go through this True this, history school us to spend our money foolish Bond with jewellers and, watch for intruders I stepped it up another level, meditated like a buddhist Recruited lieutenants with ludicrous, dreams of gettin cream let's do this, against T-D-S So I keep one eye open like, C-B-S, ya see me stressed right? Can I live? Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 26, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Yeah, why exactly did Jayz tried to pull Nas's cards? Just cuz Nas didnt want to do a song with him??Now that is ...LAAAAAAAAAME!I may not know both of them very well, but I 100% guarantee that if Nas was to go up to Jigga and ask him "what was that for", this would be jiggas response: "yo my bad yo ,i was just mad yo i didnt mean to make you mad yo u know i didnt mean all that shit i said yo, lets squash this yo.dont hit me yo." then they'll squash it, and then the next time jayz do another summer jam or radio show, he'll try to diss nas right behind his back again like a bitch. Tell me if I'm wrong. Jay-z may be the best right now, but that was a bitch move that he made to get to the top(embarassing prodigy by showing him in a tutu, and calling out nas when nas didnt even know jayz had beef with him). What they need to do is an open mike contest between Nas and Hov... (I'm not even gonna show disrespect the LORD by callin gay-Z "Hova") and see who outshine who in a freestyle battle. Anyway i hope y'all had a good thanksgiving. Shouts out to my niggas Quooout (sorry i spelled it wrong again), Big J, Hillis 3000( yo name is ill ), 3:16 (your opinions are well supported), LOX (see styles LP in Feb or march).oh yeah by the way, sorry I HAVE to say this, but if Nas had atleast the same level of production HOVA has had, sorry, GAME OVER 4 HOVA. Some one said it i forgot who. If anyone disagrees with me, thats ok its all love.Peace out, God bless da globe. bin Laden your days r numbered(almost to none) and i'm out. One!

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 26, 2001.

Lord forgive me if I address Jay z by the name "Hova" again. One

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 26, 2001.

What up LOX? I see you repin' up in here. LOL. I feel you for the most part. I didn't see that BET thing yet, but Pac would get that number 1 spot and no way in the world would Hov get number 2. That just goes to show you what kind of nonsense is out there. We tried to have the Source awards because the other shows ain't give us our props, but the Source is just as bad. And about that 5 mic thing, let me quote my man Jada "Screw how many mics you got/ How much ice you got/ My bullets'll make you icy-hot." That Source bull is just that... bull. Yeah Jay got one one the best joints out right now, but that's cause ain't nobody really out there, but fools like Nelly. Speaking of Nelly, how many mics did they give him? Don't quote me on this, but they probably gave that clown 5 mics too, so that proves that the source spits BS. Plus, I liked the Hard Knock Life CD more than Blurprint. It's just that BP is new right now, so people are acting like it's the tigest thing ever. And 3:16, no offense dogg, but come on that jigga verse is weak; I never did feel that song; I don't wanna hear about Marcy anyway and I never even heard of it until he started yellin it. Ok, ok, my bad, I'm hatin' now, so disregard what I said about Marcy, but for real, look at it this way. Jay gives Nas a shout out on at least 2 of his CD's, and now he's acting like Nas is trash. Don't believe that cause that man Jay doesn't even believe it. And Big J, I think it was you who said this about Hit em up, but my bad if it wasn't you. But someone said Pac had no reason to make that song. I don't think he should have but he had plenty of reason and if we were in his shoes, who knows what we'd do? But if I put you on, introduce you to the world, or at least help you get in the door, and let you open shows for me, and then I come in your hood and get shot FIVE times, please find out who did it. I'm your boy right? I'm not saying go ride on the ones who hit me, but get me some info. BIG did none of that, and he didn't have to, but Pac didn't have to help BIG, but he did. And that's the thanx? So I understand why he made Hit em Up. Lastly, joey p? Are you 4real; is it an honset mistake or are you trying to start something? I'm trying to chill, but if you got something to say, say it, don't imply and once again it's on up in here. If it's just a misunderstanding, then my bad. Holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Yo Hollywood, thankyou for picking up yet another tight Jay-Z verse, and just as to hammer a point into Rich (did I not say I could go on and on?) heres another one...

from "Takeover" on the Blueprint

A wise man told me don't argue with fools/Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who/So stop with that childish shit, nigga I'm grown/Please leave it alone - don't throw rocks at the throne/Do not bark up that tree, that tree will fall on you/I don't know why your advisors ain't forewarn you/Please, not Jay, he's, not for play/I don't slack a minute, all that thug rappin and gimmicks/I will end it, all that yappin be finished/You are not deep, you made your bed now sleep/Don't make me expose you to them folks that don't know you/Nigga I know you well, all the stolen jew-els/Twinkletoes you breakin my heart/You can't fuck with me - go play somewhere, I'm busy/And all you other cats throwin shots at Jigga/You only get half a bar - fuck y'all niggaz (is this a better one Q, theres lots more to choose from)

There you go, it looks like you may have been wrong Richard.

OK Steph, I think I might just cop that Kardinal joint y'all is on about. Q, now I do know that the Source chats shit a lot of the time, but the only people who got 5mics so far are Ice Cube for "Amerikas Most Wanted", and Nas for "Illmatic", but I do see your point. The other thing is that the Hove/Nasty feud is proffesional, not personal. I dont think either of them would shoot each other over it, but because of it, Nas is gonna go platinum, all eyes are on him now which might just wake him up, and Jay has already gone platinum (many times over I do believe)

Will somebody OUTSIDE the UK please cop Roots Manuva!!! DAMN! (In all good record stores now)

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 26, 2001.

Qoolout, my bad if u misunderstood me. I really didnt know how to spell yo name by heart. no disrespect at all. matter of fact, i was giving you a shout out on my last messsage.You r 2 real yo, and i like the fact that you tell it like it is.Any way no love lost there aiight, now back to the issue at hand, for all those who really think that Nelly i number 1, y'all need to get out this website RIGHT NOW. Big ups to Big J, da 3:16, LOX (put ya hands up) and Hillis 3000, as well as Q. I'm out one.

-- Joe p (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 26, 2001.

ah LOX back up in the motherfucka.

hmm Q, your right pac did let big open shows for him and i have a picture of them togeather to prove your right. but still suge knight did force his artist to do alot of shit but still if i thought someone shot me five times id be pretty angry at that person lol. oh another question does anyone own the 2pac greatest hits cd disk 1? what the hell is this one song called god bless the dead? i remember most of the song its starts out, rest in peace to my motherfucka biggie god bless the dead, god bless the dead and biggie dont worry if you see god first, tell em shit got worst i aint mad i know you representin the crew and i can picture in heaven with a blunt and a brew. and this other guy raps after a verse his name is stretch and it sound almost just like biggie and he mentions him a few times too, its strange because i think they cut some of the end out of it.

ok anyway back to nas and gayz. too bad things cant be like they was back in the day, they could just battle right in front of each other.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

Okay Joe P. It was just a misunderstanding; we qool, we str8. 3:16, yeah that qoute is much better, but still I think Jigga got some verses that are wayyyy better than that one. Now that last line, I gotta admit, I'm really feeling that. All you others taking shots at Jigga... But I would have called their names. Anyway, like I said before, I like both Jay and Nas, but Nas more because his stuff makes you think. How much time do you think Jig put into Takeover(not much). It is harsh, but it ain't hardly his best work. And about that CD that all y'all seem to hate, I'm not trying to say it's tight, but a few songs on it were and here is a little sample. 3:16, let me know what you think, and holla when Jay lays it down like this. "LAST WORDS": I'ma prison cell six by nine/Livin hell/ stone wall metal bars for the guards in jail/ My nickname the can, the slammer, the big house/ I'm the place many fear cause there's no way out/I take the sun away put misery instead/When you wit me most folks consider you dead/I saw too many inmates fallin apart/Call for the gaurds and let them out when it's dark/Convicts think they alone but if they listen close They can hear me groan touch the wall feel my pulse/All the pictures you put up is stuck to my skin/ I hear ya prayers (even when ya whisperin)/I make it hotter in the summer colder in the winter/ If the court paroal ya then another con enters/No remorse for your tears I seen em too often/When you cry I make you feel alive inside a coffin/Watch you when you eat play with you mind when you sleep/Make you dream that you free then make you wake up to me/Face to face with a cage no matter your age/I can shatter you turn you into a savage in rage/Change ya life that's if you get a chance to get out/Cause only you and I know what sufferings about/Yo it's stunning when bed sheets become your woman/And I'm the one that gotcha weapons when the beef is comming/Maybe one day I'll open up my arms to release you/You'll always be my property igga stay legal. Ha ha. Need I say more. Now he put some effort into this.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.

First off, the "gayz" thing is gettin a lil lame. Also to whoever it wuz sayin how the 5 mics from the Source are BS its not. Sure it don't matter much but like I think it wuz 3:16 said, they don't go giving 5 mics to everyone. And I highly doubt they gave 5 to someone as weak as Nelly.
Here's some Kardinal Offishall for y'all: "Turn up the speakers so my words shine through/My nigga dem street cats will hussle u/We gotta live, positive or positive/Action is your parogative/Clip the spark it in the parkin lot while time gets dark/We celebratin with the crew/My nigga, what else could we do/Hand to hand pass a contraban/Runnin from Babylon/Makin the money cuz, yo, that's the solution/They won't hire my brothaz to work a 9-5/So instead of suicide/We husslin to stay alive"
Anywayz, Qoolout now that wuz a damn good quote in Jay's favour. Big J I disagree its a helluva lot better hearin the battlin in the music and keepin strictly professional and shit. I mean we don't want hov' or nas 2 end up dead do we? Well I don't lol. And 3:16, I think I'll look into this Roots Manuva that ure so into.
Later y'all.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 26, 2001.


I saw niggas get smacked and have the street thinkin' they real saw niggas wives and knew 'em as the cum drinkin' girls hosaditty, she act like she innocent she act like her Pussy is place that no nigga been why she act like she never met me? she can't forget me thugs respect me, jealous niggas say F me 'cause my cruise shots like Lefty and Sunny Black your Hoes wanna lick Honey out my crack I'll fart in your bitch mouth, she call me psychic 'cause I knew she would like it push fleetwood Caddy's feelin' righteous I eat good, no red meat I like Fish ya'll never in your life seen money I live like a Gangster from the Nineteen Twenties smuggle bootleg liquor I shoot 'till you dead nigga I'm about bread, these rhymes is off the head nigga wear Esco leathers and Esco fleece I could flow over techno beats and rep the streets you a one verse assasin I'm a multiple LP long lastin' peekin' again grimy nigga with different color ink in my skin former low life, now I'm the Bling Bling King respect it see me with the shit I say on record not like these fake thugs, please wake up If I die I'm'a rise from the grave


-- RICH NICE (richiii@msn.com), November 26, 2001.

I said don't quote me on the Nelly thing because I didn't know if it was true or not, so everyone can stop writing stuff saying "He didn't get 5 mics" I was making a point, let me try again. The Source's 5 mic scale is str8 up BS!!! If Nelly got anything more than 2 mics they need to listen to that nonsense again. Jigga got 5, so what? Blueprint is a good CD to me, but it ain't the best in the world or even one of the best. Did they give Me Against the World 5 mics? Probably not and that's one of the best rap CD's ever. But let me tell the truth...I don't care if they give Jig 10 mics, I put no stock into what the Source says. I don't buy my music based on what they say; if you do, fine, but don't try to get me to do that. And look at the Source Awards. Are you sure you really want to stand behind "The Source"? Furthermore Steph, that was a good quote in your opinion, but in my opinion it was not. Like I said, Jig can spit, but he didn't impress me with that verse. Big J, I heard that song, I think they had someone on there trying to sound like Pac when he said R.I.P to B.I.G because as we all know, Pac died before B.I.G. And I agree that Suge probably did hype him to diss all of those other rappers. 3:16, who is Ose? And to whoever has any info on this next question, let me know. What's up with saying "Suge shot him" on that Mackaveli CD? To all who don't know, it's on the 1st track before the music starts; you gotta listen closely. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

2 Pac has a way of telling the future in his music.Suge I think could no longer control pac and this was a virtue back when Suge had that power in the hayday of Death Row. Pac somehow knew suge would lead to his eventual downfall.And that stuff about "Suge shot me" Suge had the manpower to take out even his own bread and butter trust me Pac knew 100% it going to happen.2 Pac had a lot of infomation that was going to leak out that would incriminate Suge.I think in future 2 pac songs you will find it unravel before our very eyes.And I know for a fact Pac had some dirt on Suge and it is just a matter of time before we see another album with those allagations.Correct me if I'm wrong have they even attempted to question Suge on the sircumstance of being a conspiritor in the shooting!And not on the grounds as a witness!it seems strange because 2 Pac's mom could have easily sent him to court I think fear has struck a cord in Ms. Shakur from Suge! That is my opinion.Someone please respond to this cause I know there are a lot of opinions on this subject? Thanks Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 27, 2001.

Uhh oh. I know I done started something by even raising the issue, but it's here now. I have my many theories about what happened, but some of them cancel out the others. I will say this Hollywood. I don't think we will ever hear anything else from Pac saying that Suge had a hand in his death. We may, but I doubt it because most of Pac's unreleased work was on D-Row, thus Suge owns it. If he set Pac up or not, no way is he ever gonna release something like that (if it even exists). If there were such a song or recording, my money says SK got rid of that info a loooong time ago. Oh yeah, I don't think that's Pac saying "Suge shot me," (I could be wrong) but I think it is saying "Suge shot him," and my guess is somebody form D-row included it just before it hit the stores. Let me know what y'all think.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

that day he got shot suge advised tupac not to wear his bullet prooft vest, when the shooting was happening, tupac tried to jump in the back seat but suge pulled him down(he said so himself) and when they asked if he knew who killed him would he tell and he said absolutley not. see that loser suge pisses me off he ruined music but at the same time made it better but hes still a punk ass in my book.

anyway whats with all these people on the top 50 mcs of all time kissing up to GAYZ(thats right i said it) i think he paid someone to get him that high, lol i they had nelly at number 19 folks, he didnt even deserve number 100. they need to have a real hip hop channel where the music is unedited.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

OK, I got some topics I can spit on for the moment, Qool, Ose is a friend of mine who got killed a couple of weeks ago, thats why his name wasnt up there when I first started on this shit. And little Richard, squash it, I aint gonna tell you again. But I will say that the flow you copped from Nas was weak. You can find the tight shit in his early stuff, haha!

Ohh... back to 2pac, y'all would think this would have been ended by now. I got my own theory to that Suge shot me line. Thats refering to the fact that Suge was all for the rivalry with B.I.G and pushed pac to go further, going further is what got him shot. I think someone on D-Row put it on. Probably one of them mans that left tha row.

That was a tight flow on Nastradamus, but...

courtesy of "Big Girl" from the same album... I'm the type that'll get you by the fireplace/Get you hype when I lick it, put it in your face/Sipping red wine, is it bedtime/You can kick it with your nigga while we listen to Faith/I'm feeling richer today/I can hit it then stay ...that was plain weak ass flow. Qoute something from Illmatic. Thats where you'll find the real tight shit.

Thankyou Steph, for checkin out my man Roots, (y'all can do the same in all good record sto.... FUCK IT, I'll let the music speak for itself).

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 27, 2001.

Sorry to hear about your man. You said the flow was tight then you say take something from another CD. Just go head and accept it; he has put out tight stuff since CD #1. And you really don't wanna start naming weak verses do you? Cause I'll name a few nonsense hooks. Like H to the izzo. Come on, or girls, girls, girls. And please don't try to tell me that these hooks are hot.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Yo check out this:
Pretty lame, doesn't say shit about the album. Only info it gives really is that Nas is "still a poet".

I think Suge does have 2 do with pac's murder cuz I think hes still alive and that Suge Knight wuz involved in the whole thing....pac'll be back yo.

This industry can get so fucked up and confusin with everyone hatin on everyone........
But anyway, yeah 3:16 I d/l some Roots Manuva, havn't had the chance 2 listen 2 it yet but i'll let ya know what I think when I do. And sorry bout ure friend Ose.


-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

I have no pitty for those who feel that Nas isn't better than Jay Z. Jay Z is a smart business man. He is smart in the sense that he borrowed BIG's flow and manipulated into his style, he has clever catch lines. Never the less, this nigga has nothhing on Nas. I don't understand why you people can't see this. Like my nigga Nas said, rap niggaz is so concerned with their ice that their flows are watered down. I have no remorse for the WACK AZZ SOUTH!! you cats are wack, you duns don't know real hip hop. You dudes are just like BET, thinking the amount of sales of an lp determines how nice the emcee is. I would defend Nas because believe it or not "Ether" kills Jay Z's "takeover", he spits four bars on that mad joint that could possibly destroy Jay Z's entire career. The reason why Nas, Big, and Pac are considered to be greats because they were humble in sense. They never self procalimed them selves as the greatest, they left that to the fans, but in almost every joint Jay Z talks about how he is the God MC...... negro please, take your kindergarten hooks somewhere else and stop hiding behing your great production.

"the liar is greater than the thier/the thief is after my riches/the liar is after my reality"-Nas "the pen is mightier than the sword/'cause the pen writes the words/"that send the sword to war"-Nas

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Fuck it. I'm through bein nice. Nas is straight garbage. I'm sorry, I don't give a fuck no more. This weak ass nigga has put out 6 good songs his entire career, and one "classic" album that didn't even go gold, and he got sorry pussy lickin niggas like "The Best" ridin his dick off of one fuckin album. "Booboodamus" was worse than any album I've ever heard. I've heard better shit from Lil Romeo than on that wack ass album. "I Am (Wack As Hell)" was just as gay and pop as anything you faggots say about Jay-Z. "You Won't See Me Tonight" with Aaliyah was gay as hell. That wack ass singing on "Money Is My Bitch" was horrible. That faggot ass nigga stole an R. Kelly song to make "KISSING." And "Doo Doo Was Written" was wack, too. The nigga stole Pac's beat on Street Dreams, the only reason "If I Ruled the World" was good was cuz Lauryn Hill did the hook. Foxy Brown ate him up on "Affirmative Action." And Nas is the only nigga I know who could fuck up a song produced by Dre other than Dre himself. "I Gave You Power" was tight, but Jay-Z could have done a much better job, and countless other rappers cuz Nas' delivery sucks ass. The nigga still sounds 12 years old. So fuck "The Best" (bitch ass bastard) and his "whole style is bitten, read about Pac's life in the papers" boy, AKA Esco's Trash. Jay-Z is ten times better than Nas' weak ass, and if NAS had any true musical skill he'd could AT LEAST put out 2 good albums instead of one. Jay-Z ain't still ridin Reasonable Doubt acclaim or Volume 2 acclaim. The Blueprint is tighter than anything Nas could have a wet dream about. And Jay-Z isn't even in my top ten rappers. I also love how y'all faggot ass Nas lovers keep postin his lyrics. That's great cuz the only place his lyrics are tight is on paper cuz that nigga's rappin sounds TERRIBLE. So tell weak ass Nas to make just ONE MORE GOOD ALBUM and maybe he can toss Jay-Z's salad. Maybe...

And another thing for that weak ass "The Best" bitch. Fuck you and wherever you're from. I hope you ain't from New York cuz I'll get all in yo ass on that one. But bitch, the South runs hip-hop. We make the best beats and ou music sounds the best cuz we know what the people like. That's why all you wack ass up North cats want Timbaland to make your beats and UGK, Ludacris, Missy, Jermaine Dupri, Outkast, Cash Money, 8Ball & MJG to improve on your wack ass songs cuz you can't deliver like the South. The South is all over hip-hop because we do it for the people. People wanna bob they heads, and we give it to em. We are truly the People's Champion. That's why Bubba Sparxxx can go platinum down heah, cuz we make All-Stars. Everybody else make crybaby ass whinin about the White man and boohooin in the ghetto sad depressing songs (that supposedly make you think, but really make you wanna change songs) and the majority of the people don't wanna hear that. And the South has never gon pop like you wack ass up North rappers love to do. We keep it grimey and dirty all the time, bitch. So fuck you "dun." You and your other "hip-hop heads" can go peel in your "whip" and be "fresh, dunny." Me and my dirty niggas will come down on slabs while leanin on that bar, ho. Check the South lingo if you really wanna enjoy music.

And another thing, sissy ass "The Best" bitch: If nobody buys FUBU is it a tight line of clothing? If nobody buys Hilfiger is it "chic." If Air Jordan's don't sell are they a tight ass brand of shoes? HELL NAW, you stupid bitch. Sales don't make an artist, but they say somethin about his overall appeal, and bitch the South outsells everybody else, so we must be doin somethin right, you punk ass beeyatch. Why don't you marinate on that "dunny" and call Nas up and ask him if "Stillmatic" is gonna be 1 or 1 and 1/2 mics. Weak ass Nas...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 27, 2001.

And another thing about Nas copy cat ass... One of his 6 good songs was Project Windows. His weak ass got Ron Isley to do the hook and Mr. Biggs improved the song 10 times over cuz Nas is straight monkey piss. But hold up! UGK did a song with Ron Isley called "One Day" about 5 years ago, so tell Nas' bitin ass to get with the times. UGK been done did a slow, soulful song with Ron Isley on the hook. Nas is a little behind. And when I say Nas is a little behind, I means he's late as well as an asshole. Weak ass, gay ass, one decent album, no sales, hasn't been good in 8 years ass, faggot ass, slop ass Nas...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 27, 2001.

Wait! There's more! According to Nas, Jay-Z must have copied Pac. Nas keep talkin all that shit about Jay-Z copyin him, Nas is just a fake wanna be 2Pac. I mean can understand Nas stealin from 2Pac, cuz 2Pac is The Best, but damn, he ain't gotta be a hypocrite. How he gon clown Jay-Z for copyin him, when he copied Pac?! Jay-Z stealin from Pac too, but he ain't no hypocrite about it. Fuck ass, Esco's trash is just LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME!!!!!!!!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 27, 2001.

There was so many things wrong with those post i wont even adress the shit (haha the disses on the best where a little amusing though)

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Hell yeaaaaaaaah, Hillis! Y'all betta recognize the dirty up in here "runnin' this rap shit". All this bullshit 'bout who's the best MC and who got the best flow ain't shit unless y'all throw my dogs pimp c and project pat in da mix. yo, i'm just foolin' 'bout project pat, but i am serious 'bout the south gettin' some propers on dis here thread. ugk, three six and outkast all can make you think, laugh and most importantly, make your head bob. all y'all nas junkies need to revaluate why you listen to rap. if y'all like poetry than read it. hell langston hughes is one of my favorites. i listen to music to be entertained and moved. if i'm having trouble sleepin, than maybe i'll throw in one of nas' weak ass, boring as a muthafucka, drab ass, pseudo intellecutal CD's in the playa. oh and why the fuck is "pop" such a negative thing. you mean niggaz is supposed to try to sound unappealing? i'm not sayin' that gettin j- lo to shake her ass and sing some gay ass hook is always acceptable, but there ain't nothin' wrong with wildin' out in some club bouncin' to cash money millionaires, ludacris, or hell, even nelly for that matter. it beats the hell outta sittin' in some depressing ass rundown apartment listenin' to nas bitch about his "new york state of mind".

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 27, 2001.

Look Hillis or whatever you call yourself dun I am not trying to start a confrontation on the INTERNET, that's not my style. I am entitled to my opinion, and the south is MAD WACK. Yeah wo I am from Queens, but I attend Southern University in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I am not a geographical nigga I don't base mad hot sounds on hemispheres dun I like what ever is intelligent and sounds good. Face it, the south is wack and they are riding desperately on those mad wack azz choruses....ex.) Ludacris-Roll Out, Cash Money-Shyne, Three six mafia-tounge ring (their sexuality is suspect!!) U.G.K.- These dudes are wack also I heard their new c.d......AND dudes point is what! Wo keep it on wax yall south niggaz is reppin the east's style big time wit the ones and tims and mad shyt like that, but that is another subject homey. That south in all lacks substance, the rhymes are basic, and one dun said it perfect on here yall dudes make "CLUB BANGERS" that chicks shake their ass to = not hip hop.

Now on Nas, dudes be hatin on this cat fo real fo real. He is the only emcee being constantly compared with his first c.d. For instance, duns been doing this forever saying It Was Written or I Am lacked the intelligence and lyrical power of Illmatic so they are failures. I don't her dudes comparing Jay Z's later c.d.'s(which in my opinion are all trash) to RD because they all are not even close to the lyricism of RD. Niggaz need to stop hatin on dude cause he is mad tight.

Hillis I figured that you were ignorant dun because you trying to put up an arguement against Nas with cats like Ludacris, Jermaine Dupri, and Cash Money.....NEGRO PLEASE. All these wack cats do is make rhymes suitable for the simple minded audiences. There rhymes are arrogant and hillarious. They are praying to win over the MTV crowd. "niggaz so concerned with their ice, that their flows are watered down"(think about it)

This is Nas's intro verses on Stillmatic peep (simple minded duns need not look)

jakes pounding on the concrete/ creep in unmarked cars and jeeps/ searching? funds?/ merking burns in the boxes they sleep/ rocks up in the socks of my fam up inb the tri-state/ tempting their fate/ sometimes feeling I need a break/ snatching up my trees, coat and pen then/ smoke more dutches then revolts in England/ hope u been listening/ if not let me begin/ thug gentlemen/ slugs whistlin'/ clippin your chin/ slickening, like Jesus wit a devilish grin/ definition contradiction, I AM heavens presence in sin/ yang and the yin/ speaking with the slang from within....

I know my post is mad long but one more from the dis track on Stillmatic called "Ether". This is the bootleg version, I personally think that this will not be the official dis track, even though it kills dude(Jay Z)

First off when I met you Jay/ you was nervous nothing to say/ said you loved illmatic/ said it was in the system to this day/ went from reasonable doubt to a hard knock life/ when we was on tour you didn't have a tec maybe a pocket knife/ Ima tell that truth about Shawn Carter/ ya pops neva left? moms was raped, so who's ya father?/ America, thats the truth I heard it from JIGGA/ you never slang crack you sold ETHER nigga/ remember you in marcy with that hoe Nicole/ she approached me at my show saying you had a small dick HOV.....

CHORUS: jigga is wack, doesn't need to be black/ u sold ether, the poor mans crack/ take your doe, your flow is old/ it's the takeover, I takehova and go...


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Even commercial ass B.E.T. know that the south is mad wack yo. Greatest emcees of all time and were any south "rappers" in the top 5?.....Sorry the south is the weakest region....GOODBYE!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

"Wait! There's more!" (Hillis 3000) On Affimative Action "wordie" Nas wrote Foxy's lyrics....yeah I know you already knew that huh. Oh, one more reason why THE DIRTY SOUTH....LOL receives no respect because I witnessed these cats on rap city (freestylin') make a complete fool out of themselves. Ex.) 8Ball and MJg, Three Six Mafia, Cash Money. And guess what they had to flow off someone else's beat so they couldn't hide behind those looney tune azz beats huh "wordie". If any dude disagrees with me just listen to the South's beats and tell me that they don't sound exactly the same. I swear dun that Juvenile beat for "Set it Off" has been used by many other SOUTH artists many a times. Don't get it twisted Timbaland to....listen to Playas "Cheers to You" then go and listen to Aaliyah's "One in a Million" WHAT DID YOU SAY DUN?!!! Yeah Hillis "YOU GET IT FROM YA MOMA" (JUVENILE) DON'T YOU EVER CONFRONT ME WITH THE WACK AZZ SOUTH SHYT AGAIN.LOL


"i found out this world is a beautiful place/ had niggaz opinions ruinin my musical taste"-Nas

"I don't really like to exercise but i'll push up on a nigga"-ME

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Hey y'all we can disagree all day, but the Bama cuz already hinted at what I've been saying all along. He said he listens to music to be moved. See he and many others focus on the beats and the hooks. Us Nas fans want a little more. That's why I couldn't listen to some nonsense like "She get it from her Mama." I'm not about to hate on the entire South, but for the most part, I'm not feeling them. I felt a little of Bubba and I used to like Scarface and the Geto Boys so I'm not gonna say they have nothing for me. But stuff like "Bling Bling," that doesn't move me, but I guess every coast has their share of weak rappers. The Best, why do you think that that verse won't be on Nas' CD. That thing was tight. Now, what Jig fan can say that the lyrics of takeover were better than those that Best posted? Be for real. And Big J, I feel you. Bama, tell me this, are you saying that Nelly is better than Nas? I'm not even gonna try to convince you; you don't even get half a bar with that. Oh yeah, Hillis, you didn't like that Aaliyah/Nas joint? That thing was tight, but I respect your opinion.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Qoolout this probably wouldn't be the official disk track lyrics because that dis is not Nas, maybe Jay's type of dis, but not Nas. In that I mean he doesn't talk about sexuality and all that, and women another nigga has been with shyt(Jay Z). He kills dudes on the lyrical and business side of the game. He makes dudes feel immature and embarrassed for coming at him, and in plus those lyrics are too simple even Hillis 3000 can understand them. 1

"you rap niggaz make me mad yall crazy azz/ and i don't give a fuck what u sold that shyt is trash/ bang this 'cause i garuntee that you bought it/ all day air play nigga without the CHORUS/ i keep it thoro"-P from MobbDeep

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Hope you didn't think I was going to leave you out Bama ("Here We is Boy"=grammatical errors) Oh, so you say you like to dance. If that is the case dun just have the beat and excuse those lame azz lyrics the south has from the song. Wo dancing is for women. "UGK, Outkast, and Three 6 Mafia all can make you think" (Bama). Dun, THINK ABOUT WHAT?!?! getting some head, seeing how much ice you can buy, or who will be the first to own 22" rims. I give Outkast credit....THAT'S IT. I am not going to knock you for dancing, but in Queens dudes don't dance we live for the lyrics. Oh, who said that we don't have tight producers.....Alchemist, Rocwilder, Swizz, Neptunes(even though they are starting to get played out), Havoc, DJ Premier, believe it or not Dr. Dre prefers the east (Aftermath), Mad Rapper and so many more. Don't overlook the east's producers wo. I sometimes ask myself if there wasn't MTV or BET would any of you have a legitimate argument about who's hot and who's not?!

"Salt lumps acquired taste quench throats/ God's masterpiece Fantasy Theater in trench coats"-Nas

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Yo, this is my first post to the site, respect to the veterans, you guys have some lively discussions here. Now, my 2 cents on the Nas vs Jay Z lyrical beef. Hear me out guys.

The first time I heard Illmatic, I was chillin in a record store and they played "halftime". The shit was soooo dope! I had to cop the CD (and this was a totally unknown rapper at the time), it was one of the best Rap CDs I have EVER purchased. Pure unadulterated lyrical genius, track after track after track. In the 100th Source Magazine Special Addition, they labled that album, "the most underrated album in rap history", damn I agree. This nigga was spittin pure lyrics and what also got me was that he wasn't on that flossin, cashmoney, fastcars, video shit! He was straight up representin and no one could touch it, that's what made us want more.

Then "It Was Written" came out and I saw two things: 1) lyrical genius was still intact, and 2) the commercial shit had started to set in. As his other albums came out, he switched, much more commercial, less pure lyrical genius. No one can deny the boy has talent, but he lost a HUGE chunk of his fan base album by album by getting more lazy and talkin about shit that everybode else was talkin about, flossin and shit, and he went totally commercial. So I couldn't relate and stop buyin his shit. Every once and a while he would still hook me up with some dope tracks like "verbal intercourse" on only built 4 cuban linx!

So, part A) of my point is that Nas is an awesome talent, who (as far as many of his once loyal fans are concerned, and also as far as his record sales are concerned) has fallen a few levels. Does he still have it (shit, he never lost hit!), but he doesn't show it to us anymore, not the way he used to. As far as battling goes, this will be interesting because Nas (early edition) never spent his time bragging about how hard he was or how weak another nigga'z shit was. I always noticed that he spent more time on the lyrics and on his experiences in life and it was cool. He never devoted a whole rap to (how hard he was, and how light other MCs were, not in the way Jay-Z or Redman would) I think this is essential for battling. But we're assuming a good lyricist can flip and be that good on any topic... we'll see.

As far as the dissin goes, I have to take this with a BUCKET of salt! Half the niggaz he's dissin now, he was praisin in the past. AZ, Cormega, Jay-Z, and others. And then there was the move to The Firm, "Escobar" and now some new cliq name, it all shows signs of instability and indecisiveness. And now, I understand he's cool with AZ again. So, as a fan, I have to watch how much I get caught in this shit, cause 6 months from now, he and Jay Z may be doin tracks together (don't say it can't happen, remember EPMD?) not that they were that close, but u get the point! So, either Nas is a horrible judge of character (and clique names) or maybe he's the problem. I don't move in their circles so I can only speculate. One minute you'd die for a nigga, next minute u tryin to kill him,what up wid that? So, all that shit aside, if it's just for the lyrical ride, I'm down and I know it WILL be colorful. I know Jay Z can be colorful and lyrical when he's ready (and commercial and shitty when he's ready) and I know there aren't much niggaz that can hold a stage with Nas on the mic when he's on. But can he go battle style? I hope he come's back up. He said in a recent interview that he'll never try to make another Illmatic type album, and I'm thinking to myself, why do rappers/singers/etc always 4get what put them on top in the first place??? If you've got to do your thing, do as RZA did (change your name to bobby digital, do bobby digital shit, but don't fuckup the track record that Rza built). That's my two cents on part a) the Nas side.... if you niggaz feel any of the shit I'm sayin, and I'm not kicked the fuck out, I'll post my opinion on part b) the Jay Z side. thanks for givin me a little air play, stay strong niggaz!

-- SX (duran007@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Yo, yall hear about the event that happened at the Powerhouse concert in philly?? Jada was freestyling dissin beanie and when the crowd found out who he was dissin, the crowed threw bottles, sticks, car keys, etc, and a tired Beanie was notified (they dont even know where he was coming from. it seems like he came outta nowhere), so when jay was done, Beanie spitted some shit like this:

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 27, 2001.

Yo, yall hear about the event that happened at the Powerhouse concert in philly?? Jada was freestyling dissin beanie and when the crowd found out who he was dissin, the crowed threw bottles, sticks, car keys, etc, and a tired Beanie was notified (they dont even know where he was coming from. it seems like he came outta nowhere), so when jay was done, Beanie came out said "i I'ma do this right" and spitted out something like this:I'm thinkin about fuckin his mom and lettin him watch/I'm takin his time and takin his watch/I'm takin his his grime, puttin 5 eights on his block.....If you want to hear more check out allhiphop.com for the artcle "beanie/jadakiss beef flare up in philly" and at the bottom you can hear both their disses on Real Audio. I fell out my chair when i heard that shit beanie said. Anyway, peace to my niggas ya know who ya is, i gotta ball now so i'll check ya out later. One

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 27, 2001.

Yo, Just read a really interesting article on the beef on MTV.com. It's a good read, just goes to show, that this thing is more show than we think it is. You can find the article at http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1446481/20010809/story.jhtml

it contains quotes like "It's music," Jay-Z said last week, on the set of the video to "Izzo (H.O.V.A.)" (see "Jay-Z Gets Serious, 'Soulful,' On New Video And Album"). "It's rap music. Rap music was built on being competitive — MCs from back in the days battlin' and trying to be the best. But now you've got money involved, so you take that competitive fire and you add it along with money, and you got a lethal combination. But it's good for rap music."


Jadakiss swears it's mostly hype.

"The industry ain't like that," said Jada, whose solo debut, Kiss Tha Game Goodbye, was released Tuesday. "Most of the beefs you hear about ... are phony because the people you hear talking about each other, you can catch them downtown having a [hand]shake over some seafood, and it's not that serious.

"Usually everything is to make money," he explained. "If you can make money off it, then it's beneficial."

U be the judge.

-- SX (duran007@hotmail.com), November 27, 2001.

Why is there a fight about South and the East.There is no winner! South makes the beats that got that knock you play all day in your car.And east got the lyrics the type where the beat is shitty as hell and the lyrics make it a hard song.They both appeal to different audiences I am not going to play "New York State Of Mind" on the dance floor I am going to play "Sippen on Some Syrip" when I am in my room I'm going to play "Polticts as usual" not "Southen Hospitality" and nobody has answred my question. What is POP? Holla back!

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 28, 2001.

Look, "The Best," you stupid bitch... What are yu gonna say when Stillmatic is basically Booboodamus continued? Are you still gonna suck Nas' dick? You mention Jay's recent albums aren't as good as Reasonable Doubt. Whatever. But there's a difference between Jay and Nas. You see, Jay has gone 10 times platinum after Reasonable DOubt plus The Blueprint is just as excellent as Reasonable Doubt. Plus Volume 2 is a classic. However, Nas went from shit to even more shittier than we thought possible. You see, Nas can say he's "Stillmatic" but he's not "Stillgood." Jay-Z on the other hand is doin it, whodi (not wordie, you fag). And another thing "dun," Queensbridge might boast the weakest rappers in the nation. If Nas had the worst fuckin verse on the song (according to Jay) then he needs to retire cuz them other QB niggas got about as much skill as Lil Romeo on crack. And don't even mention sickle cell ass Mobb Sleep. Them niggas really need to quit. And bitch, while you hatin on the South, just remember - Prodigy asked BG to be on his album, not vice versa. We don't need any of you wack ass Queens garbage ass niggas on our shit "Down Heah" cuz we can do it on our own. We don't need help from who's hot at the time. And another thing, why would anybody "Down Heah" be worried about some gay ass nigga from a place called "Queens?" That's all you got rappin in yo weak ass set is a bunch of faggots who still can't believe that they had Pac rushin em. Fuckin sorry ass Nas, Mobb Deep, and the rest of them niggas. Tell punk ass Nas to quit tryin to start beef with Jay cuz he's King of New York now and he wants to revive his Illmatic career. And let's not forget he attacked Memphis Bleek first. That's sayin much. I'll battle with another wack ass, non rhymin bastard in Memphis Bleek. I bet Nas is like, since I'm still ridin Illmatic acclaim, I'll attack another bitch similar to me in Memphis Bleek, who's riding Jay-Z's Volume 2 acclaim.

And how we bitin off you weak ass cats on the East coast? Bitch we been sittin on dubs and comin down on slabs with that syrup (AKA bar, lean-ah) for the longest. These gold grill boys been chasin fast hoes in them big bodies for the longest, you gay ass nigga. By the way, "The Best" you should change your name to "Queenie" or somethin to represent your gay ass borough.

Shout outs to my nigga Bama, he on point with his. I agree with everything he said, ESPECIALLY that shit about sittin in yo rundown apartment claimin Nas is speakin to they heart. All Nas does is write down poetic garbage and claim that it's for the streets, so you weak ass niggas who don't know nothin about the streets assume Nas is bein real. That shit is weak. People been rappin about the ghetto forever. nas ain't hardly special.

Please tell Nas to get some bass in his muthafuckin voice! "Dunny" sounds like he's due for puberty any minute now. If he had some hair on his nuts, maybe he wouldn't sound he still had zits to pop. Faggot ass Nas.

And another thing, that wack ass list of producers you gave? Hell naw. Dj Premier is the only halfway decent one, and the Neptunes are only hot right now. Plus "Southern Hospitality" sounds just like "I Just Wanna Love You" which sounds like "Lapdance" which sounds like "Shake Ya Ass." And I KNOW you didn't have the nerve to say all the beats in the South sound the same, and then put Swizz Beatz (I'm gonna use this brass and trumpet section as much as possible) ass on there. "Down Bottom" sounds just like "Twisted Heat" which sounds like "Jigga My Nigga" which sounds like "Gotta Man" which sounds like "Girl's Best Friend" which sounds like "Ruff Ryders Anthem" which sounds like "One More Road to Cross" which sounds like "Y'all Gon Make Me Lose My Mind Up In Here!" and so on and so forth. And for your information, you jackass, "Set It Off" is Manny Fresh's beat from around 1996/97. He made that beat awhile ago and Juvenile just used it, kind of like gay ass Nas usin Pac's beat from Street Dreams. "Dunny."

But wait! There's more! You dissin UGK, but bitch, I guarantee Nas hasn't come out with a song realer than "One Day." If you really think you know UGK, go find somebody with Ridin Dirty. Listen to "One Day" or "Hi Life." Nas hasn't come out with anything as tight as them two songs. Them niggas laid it down on them tracks. Or check out "Diamonds and Wood." That one song is tighter than every good Nas song (i.e. six) combined. And "Ain't That a Bitch" on their new album is smooth and soulful. If you heard that, and still say they wack then you obviously don't know good music.

And another thing, at least you can tell Outkast from UGK our from 8ball or Juvenile or Ludacris or Three 6 or whoever. When a certain southern artist comes on, he has his own style. But Nature, AZ, Cormega, Pharoah Monch, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, Black Thought, and the majority of the up North losers all have that same busted ass basic flow from 1989. Mas included. Damn, if y'all switched up your style maybe you could sell more than two albums a year.

"This weak ass nigga named The Best come here dissin the South/lil does he know later he gon have this dick in his mouth/oh wait, he might enjoy that so I'll put the gat up his butt/oh, he'll enjoy that, too, so I point it at his gut/then I call Bin Laden, I need another borough terrorized/Bring the plane crashin down on Queens, I see the terror in ya eyez/Dunny, The Best turned bitch, straight lickin Nas' balls/But after Nas'last 3 albums, Nas fan base became appalled/If Nas came Down South maybe he'd have a platinum plaque/His fans would crawl back, and start jockin his strap/But if he stays in sissy ass Queens, the nigga won't sell a thing/He'll have to do song with Dru Hill, and pay Sisqo to sing"

Lyrically, I'm not all that, but I bet if rapped that shit and put it on wax, it would sound a million times better than weak ass Nas' shit. He need to crawl up under the Fairybridge, oops! I mean "Queensbridge" and fuckin retire. Weak ass, Nas...

One last thing: of course sales mean nothing to a weak ass nigga that doesn't sell. Of course rap is watered down when everybody is buyin everything but yo shit. I'm sure Nas is bitter because the South puts out platinum plaque after multi platinum plaque while he sits and wonders why his dick shriveled up after Illmatic. But wait! Stillmatic to the rescue right, "dunny?" LOL, bitch.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 28, 2001.

WOAH! A lots been said. East vs South, H vs Best, Jada vs Beans. This is how it should be. It makes peeps interested. For the benefit of y'all, I'ma go with the East, H, and Beans. Q, i cannot be fucked to go head to head with lyrics. It just means that I have to think of them and spend time writtin that shit down. But that aside, I connot think of one wack Hova verse from the top of my head, i'd have to look it up closely. nas on the other hand, well... thats a bit more easy, but I will not waste my time gettin them down right, so thats that. Undoubtably they both had a couple of wack lines. Who the fuck hasn't. Pac has, B.I.G has, KRS-1 has, Rakim has, Outkast has had far too many (im sorry ms Jackson but that shit is wack). Nas and Hova have just had less than your average rappers. Thing is, Jay-Z is straight up better. Peeps can stop complaining bout "he too comercial cos of his sales" cos he got those sales thanks to the ghetto celebrity image he showed everyone in Reasonable Doubt.

Yo Hillis, you been making some sense up in here. I appreciate you comin out and spittin it like it is. The flow was tight though, you should ghost write or something. So Best, shut up fool. Plus that pushin up lyric has been used before, its not yours.

Yo! anyone know where Manny gone?

"Go play somewhere, I'm busy" - Jay-Z

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 28, 2001.

Look, if I shoot you, I'm brainless But if you shoot me, then you're famous -- what's a n*gga to do? When the, streets is watching, blocks keep clocking Waiting for you to break, make your first mistake Can't ignore it, that's the fastest way to get extorted But my time is money, at twenty-five, I can't afford it Beef is sorted like Godiva, chocolates N*ggaz you bought it, I pull the slide back and cock it Plan aborted, you and your mans get a pass This rhyme, you're operating on f*ck time Y'all n*ggaz ain't worth my shells/all y'all n*ggaz tryin to do is hurt my sales/and stop trips to John McNale/The type to start a beef then, run to the cops/When I see you in the street got, one in the drop/Would I rather be on tour getting a, hundred a pop/Taking pictures with some b*tches, in front of the drop/The streets is watching

From "Streets is Watching" - In My Lifetime, vol.1

Sorry, couldn't help it!

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 28, 2001.

Hillis comming with the lyrics now,damn! We definately need to make this a multimedia page so we can hear some of our fellow rap entusiest put some lyrics to a beat.Even though I do not like the whole battleing thing I like the little dis you put up there.The Best you gotta throw back some fire dogg.I'm gettin too into this now!I need to stop. But yall keep up with the lyrics.Oh to sattify 3:16 i got something for you this is the classic Dead President pt.1 featuring the now most hated man along with The Best on this board, Nas here it is:

Well I was fit that wonderama shit me and my conglomerate share remain anonymous caught up in the finest shit live out by dreams until my heart get vowed and while we crave you know exactly what the shits about fuck y'all mean handlin' since a teen I dish out like the point got off your favorite team without doubt my life ain't rosy but I roll with it my mind was fine till the dough hit it and told me that the mo' did it and now it's closer shit and so I said it I blow a digit on a dimin' in a minute but no bitchin' watch how I'm walkin' cause even the thoroughest niggaz be knockin', tryin' to strike a bargain, hopin' that they might get part in shit on me boy we got me pins and needles and my cerebral be's the wickedess evil thoughts that this boughter feed you feed back in a game so deep fien's can catch ya freeze off my knee cap can y'all believe that got the city drinkin' Crystal raise up the fee rappers going broke tryin' to keep up wit me my rise the riches surprise the bitches think harder you know this nigga Jay-Z Shawn Cotter G.S. to fuck up, three years to fuck up Watch me shine like a brightly be gets to fuck up All rhymers forget like altimers small timers I said it I'm adressin' all drama torture

As always holla....By the way can someone explanie what the hell is pop!No one yet has answerd yet could you like included in your disses or something please. Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), November 28, 2001.

yo this is da illest post that I've been in by far. the conversations are deep, and everyone is pushin their opinion to the max! thats how it should be. thats why more and more people comes to this post. "Keep it thoro, niggas!". Personally, I dont care what coast the music i hear is from, as long as it moves me enough to dance to, or to bop my head to or make me think, that's all that matters. If you want to just chill out and hear songs that make you think, songs like "NY State of Mine" and "Dead Presidents 1+2" paint pictures and tells stories for the head. If you want to breakdance or do "the uptown/harlem shakes or the heal toe tap dances, then listen to "Special Delivery" by G-Dep or "Lets Get It" by Bad Boys( Also if you forget bout the wack lyrics). If you just wanna wild out and be hyper Listen to "Got my mind right" by Memphis Bleek and Ante Up+ remix by M.O.P.,Southern Hospitality from Ludacris, and Put ya hands up by Jadakiss. If you wanna dance and floss jewels at the same time at the clubs listen to anything from Cash Money And Jay-z. It depends on what mood you are in during that time of what music you prefer and what your taste is. You're not gonna hear "NY State of mind" at the clubs or smoke w*** to anything wit a fast beat. Yeah, and Beanie got Jada in the lastest freestyle (Sorry Lox fans Jada's my mans too but Beaniegot him this time

-- Joe .p (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 28, 2001.

3:16, you cant' think of one wack Hova verse? Dogg, I respect what you've been saying on here so far. I disagree with most of your points, but still you've been making points. But now...I don't know. Please just reconsider that particular aspect. Hov has plently of wack verses, lines, hooks, etc. (I know what girls like) Like you said, I don't even wanna keep typing lines back and forth that another man wrote, plus, I don't own too many Jigga CD's so I would be at a disadvantage, but I think we all know he's put out some weak rhymes, just like everybody else in the game. So just think about that and then holla back.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Yo Hillis, you know I got ya back playa. As for the rest of y'all, lemme set the record str8. I don't hate the east coast at all. In fact, I got mad love for catz like biggie, wu, jada, and even dat young nigga fabolous can move me. The west is str8 wit me also. But to modify a classic Biggie verse... If I got to choose a coast/I got to choose the South/I live out there/so don't go there/But that don't mean a nigga can't rest in the West/See some nice breasts in the West My beef is with wit deez catz who overglorify Nas' talent and impact on the rap game. His first joint was fairly tight. I can concede that. But why do y'all need to keep posting his '94 lyrics up in here like they're from the bible? Trust me. Nas ain't that profound. Tight lyrics? Sheeeit. Check 'Pac's "Me Against the World". You want introspective, coherent and intelligent flow, with strong ass delivery? Then that's the joint y'all should be ravin' 'bout. If y'all wanna post some '94 Nas shit, then I'm gonna post some '95 Pac shit.

I take a shot of Henesse now I'm strong enough to face the madness/Nickel bag full of sess weed laced with hash/Phone calls from my niggaz on the, other side/Two childhood friends just died/I couldn't cry/A damn shame, when will we ever change/And what remains from a twelve gauge to the brain/Arguements with my Boo is true /I spend mo' time with my niggaz than I do with you/But everywhere it's the same thang/that's the game/I'll be damned if a thang changed/fuck the fame/I'll be hustling to make a mill-ion, lord knows/Ain't no love for us ghetto children

And that shit is real.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 28, 2001.

Oh, did I hurt someone's feelings (Hillis). Like I said before dun I am not going to argue with you over this situation because you are throwing cats like Ludacris, UGK, and Cash Money in the mix.....THAT'S A NO NO DUN!! Oh, I and do listen to some of the South's shyt from DJ Screw to UGK to Eight Ball to Lord Infamous to Pastor Troy to Lil' Flip (damn you ask yourself how does he know those duns....LOL), and to me all of that shyt is wack and I would never cop one of their albums. You say that Nas is wack, when half the time you probably don't know what he is talking about..."niggaz fear what they don't understand/hate what they can't conquer, guess it's just the fury of man". All the south talks about is how much ice they have, how big of a "pimp" they are, how many whips they have etc......they may have a real song worth listening to one track out of their entire album.

Back on Nas this wo don't give a fuck about publicity actually I think the dun hates the shyt. He doesn't give a fuck about being on BET and MTV like Jay Z or the south niggaz do....QOUTE FROM PIMP C "Man I can't stand BET they don't never play any of the south's shyt" CRY BABY AZZ DUDE, WHO GIVES A FUCK!!! Nas don't give a damn about sales, the nigga is already rich, and believe it or not his least fortunate album went 3x platinum(nastradamus), but it is still labeled as a failure. Like I said before all you south duns do is rate a dude by how much he sells....LOL. Man I am done talking to your wack azz wo. I can't explain shyt to niggaz like you, but I am going to leave you with this since you want to so call battle me.

QB animals spit venom in your eyes/ battling me ....Hillis I thought you were wise??/ well im a non believer, my lyrics mixed in ether/you beating me is like seeing an all white zebra/it's just not possible so change your hypothesis/ FREEZING YOU WORDS is the only way you can "ROC" to this/ im a metropolis, your small PARISH or town/ youll get fucked verbally, i saw your panties down/ ill battle the whole south from one man to a crowd/ you cry for mercy, the only thing that will be loud/ stop the chatter, your only gangsta on the COMPURTER/ pressing enter numerous times thinking i can shoot ya/ get a life, seek a future/ get off that south shyt/ too bad, you fuck wit dudes that lack conscience/ stay in your place dun and don't ever disrespect QUEENS/ cause next time wo you'll prophesize to be on ya knees...muphucka

"Wuz up with all this NAS hatin Hillis, u can suck my dick/ got ya chick naked gone make her fuck my fist"-Me

Oh and for the dun that said the pushin up bar aint mine. "phuck you tha shit is mine" 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

What up LOX? Yeah I heard that too. I heard that Pac and a lot of his boys met with Nas and a lot of his boys. Nas said "I heard you dissed me on your new CD." This was before it was in the stores. Pac said, I'm cool with you, and don't get caught up in this east/west beef. They squashed it right there (from what I heard) and Pac said "I'll take that diss off of the CD." But then he died and Suge released it anyway. Now I don't know if any of this is true, but I believe it. Joe P, is there a new Jada vs. Beans diss, because I've only heard F Beanie by Jada and Put your hands up by Beans. Jada won that one, but let me know if there is something new. 3:16, until I hear the new stuff, Jada still got that W; I'ma stay outta the H vs. Best thing; and I agree with you on the East vs. South, East gets that W. Hey y'all, I gotta go to class now, holla back.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@HOTMAIL.COM), November 28, 2001.

"Wait! There's more!" Volume 2 a classic....HARDLY. That lame azz project should have been called DJ Clue The Professional Pt. 1.5 for all those damn collaborations. Everyone remember back when BIG and Pac were alive and they had the whole nation who was the only other emcee still receiving recognition.......you guessed it NAS. Yeah that was when Jay Z's shyt (for all you duns that are so concerned with sales) was going WOOD!! AND WHERE WAS THE SOUTH???!!! Believe it or not Nas changed the whole rap game with Illmatic because before that mad hot joint dropped cats was rappin about Gold chains and shyt.....the only one I can give credit to that portrayed lyricism was RAKIM/KRS-ONE/MC SHAWN. "Hillis" you bitch....LOL stick to wearing tees, girbaud's, and rees faggot!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Hold the fuck up, slowdown. LOX, Best, this mother fucka Hillis dont know whats real out here he damn sure dont. first off i dont like to post disses like this but when you talkshit about QB you talk it to me bitch ass. first off Scarface is the only real down south rapper there is and hes one of my favorites, ludacris is alright but when you do a concert on MTV with rock bands while crazy white boys are doing tricks on bikes theres something wrong. you admited it yourself a while back Hillis, the south, lyrical is shit, so your saying fucking beats is all that matters? dumbass. if you wanted to talk shit like this before then you should have you fake ass hillbilly motherfucka. yeah my nigga Best did you see on rap city when juvenile was freestylin? he actually did a song on his cd called "ya dig" lol. hmm lets see who could freestyle better, Nas, P(prodigy for you punk ass hicks), capone, nore, and styles(the hardest nigga out here btw) and your fuckin UGK, ludacris, nelly, jd, and bubba sparxxx, hahahah i thought so bitch. oh and you say the fuckin south is the shit yet you always seem to be ridin gayz's dick (sadly from newyork). lets see whats better, big pimpim(a load of suburbon shit) and if i ruled the world. I dont know what i was smokin that day but i bought the st lunatics shit and there wasnt one good song on that shit, i sold it for $5. and as usual shittie siegel cant rap worth shit. why would mobb deep need to quit? there the fuckin realest group out there. OH FUCK THAT GAY ASS GIRLS, GIRLS GIRLS, BY GAYZ JUST CAME On, the song which he uses every fuckin sterotype even against his own race, hell yeah nas is right he doesnt deserve to be black the fuckin michael jackson wanna be. Tell me this, can your fuckin UGK, project pat, 3-6 mafia make one fuckin song with out repeating the same line or word 50 fuckin times? dont think so. id rather listen to damn pdiddy. and your punk ass nelly fakes a country accent bitch like miss fuckin cleo, but i dont need a phsychic to tell me that real niggaz dont listen to that bullshit. no one gives a flying fuck about record sells but MTV and little of BET, you flaming faggot. i know you used to rock "quiet storm" and "Nas is like" before the gay ass south came in and started making songs by repeating a word or phrase 20 times. oh and you say only in the south can a man like bubba sparxxx go platinum? and your right and i think that goes against your argument cause only in the south can a person with no rhyming skills what so ever even get signed. look at the violater cd, is basicly a NY complamation bitch. BG is alright, he aint fake like the rest of his crew and how the fuck would you know who came to who bitch? the only fuckin argument you can produce is that the south makes more money(off of bullshit) and have slightly better beats and i mean slightly they all sound the fuckin same too. i dont give a fuck about sales like any real rap fan would. let me guess your a pig shaggin redneck trying to be black right? hahaha you dont deserve to listen to rap you wannabe mother fucker.

and my nigga Q, you know what he posted was wack man.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.



-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Yeah Q and Lox i heard that too and i also heard that he was gonna meet up with mobb deep in three days(they said it them selves on MTV)

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Yeah, Big J, I know what you mean. I didn't really agree with the stuff Hillis said, but I was just trying to leave it at that i.e. a disagreement. I'm really trying to stay out of all this dissin, (I've already been there) I am tryin to chill now, thus, I got no beef with H. But I gotta agree with My dogg LOX; Hillis, Best brought it to you. Them lines were tight LOL. I'm just waiting to see your response. And another thing Big J, I feel you all the way on that Girls, Girls, sterotype bull. Jay can do better.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

HAHAHAHA going wood!!!! oh my god hahaha.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

And another thing. To the Bama, first of all, where are you from dogg, with a name like Bama? I guess it means something different where you reside (no disrespect). But 2nd of all, I agree with you that Pac stuff is better than Nas', but come on, you can say that about Jigga. Pac's style, words, etc. is way better than Jig's and better than anybody else you name. Plus Jay has copied Pac more than anybody else has if you ask me. And as far as Nas not being profound.... Are you telling me Jay -Z is? Even the Nas haters on here have said that Nas is the deeper of the 2. But if you don't believe, just listen to or read the lyrics (either one you want to) to Takeover and then see what Nas said in response. That will answer the question right there. P.S. I been said that going wood thing a few post back when I was speaking of Rakim. LOL

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Big J, LOX, Qoolout where yall rep...Big J what part of Queens? LOX thanks wo. It took me like 20 to 30 for those bars dun. Ah, but I am done conversing/arguing with that Hillis dude, he is mad lost yo, don't know shyt about emcees, maybe "rappers", but not emcees, maybe beats, but not lyrics, maybe commercial, but not street, maybe Jay Z, but not Ali Vegas!! Dude probably one of those niggaz that thinks "CHOICES"(3/6 Mafia) deserves 5 mics.....LOL Probably determines whos a nice "rapper" by The Source's mic system!! faggot I'm done wo 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

"never argue with an idiot, he/she will lower you to their level and defeat you with experience. Dun I am out fo real fo real I have to go to class 1.

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Yo! this time up on here I will not diss anybody, i'ma save that for later y'all, but for now i'ma tell you something sick, none of y'all would have even thought possible. I dont really believe its true, but its there. peep this, this is pretty much a straight copy of the text.

"It seems that Nas has a few things to say on his new album, "Stillmatic". According to MTV, Nas unsurprisingly goes at Jay- Z on diss track "Ether", but also attacks Prodigy, Nature and Cormega on "Destroy & Rebuild". Nas' one time Firm affiliate claimed that Jigga also took the blame for the Un stabbing to cover up for a friend. "Stillmatic" drops on December 18th and will address a LOT of unsettled issues that Nas believes, needs answering"

I can understand the whole Cormega diss, but P and Nature? And if anyone knows something bout the Un thang, holla back.

oh and Best/keep them push-ups/work yo' chest/buy a vest/even better/buy another pokemon sweater/go home and take yo' pen knife/go run for yo' life/y'all dont belong in the game/you just here for the fame/by riding Nas' name/cuz, yo' post up is LAAAAMMMEE!

I said I wasnt gonna do it but I did, oops. My bad.

DAMN MANNY! COME BACK CUZ!, Y'all would enjoy this shit!

And by the way, Ice Cubes "Greates Hits" is the last time y'all are gonna see him on Priority Records, Kiss got forced off the stage in Philly by the crowd (hmmm... I guess y'all know that anyway). Cam'ron has officially signed with the ROC (i guess y'all know that too), and Dr Dre (that no-writing "still gangsta" fool) along with Xzhibit, Scott Storch and Loud Records are all being sued for copying lyrics (for Xzhibit's "X").

Yo Q, I aint sayin Jay aint dropped his share of wack lyrics, I just cant think of them, they dont stick out. What do you think, when Nas takes a shit it dont stink?

Right, Hollywood, here is my defenition of pop, just for you. N sync is pop, B.Spears is pop, Westlife is pop, Backstreet Boys is pop. Pop is something little kids idealise and stick up on they walls. Its something they ask their moms to cop for them. Its something girls play at pyjama parties. Its something where nothing bad happens, where everything is good, clean wholesome fun. And it ussually contains lines like "ooh I really love you baby". Rap is not pop, Jay- Z is not pop, Nas is not pop, hell, even Will Smith aint pop (well maybe just a little bit).

Im out for now.

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 28, 2001.

Yo Qoolout, I'm reppin' Mobile, Alabama up in here. Yo dog, you're missing my point with my dis on Nas. I don't think Nas is profound at all. But at the same time, I don't think too many rappers are all that profound (except for Pac and a handful of other niggaz). Shit, the dudes I like ain't profound at all. But they entertain the hell outta me. This is just music, playa. Do I agree with Best when he says that all the south does is talk about ice, pimpin and whips? Hell yeah. He's pretty much right on. I like the shit because it sounds good and moves me. Just because Nas may spit about the streets once in a while don't make him profound. He's got a handful of dope ass cuts with some impressive lyrical flow, but it's still only a handful. The rest of his shit is the same superficial bullshit that y'all bust on the south for puttin' out. I'm sure if I took the time to really evaluate Nas' lyrics in depth, it might be fairly insightful. But for me, a bomb ass beat with some funny lyrics, is more appealing than Nas' shit. That's just my opinion y'all. Nuttin' personal yo. Y'all seem to dig ol' Nasty Nas and that's cool. I hope Stillmatic is hot. For real. If it is, I'll cop tha shit.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 28, 2001.




















17)4,3,2,1-LL COOL J










-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

See 3:16, you're talking nonsense now. That's what it is. Don't act like I ever said Nas was the best or a God or any of that. Maybe you've got me mixed up with another Nas fan. I said his stuff is deep and makes you think. Many don't like that kind of music, but don't hate on me because I do; that's childish. And keep in mind that this here is just what I think: I'm not feeling your rhyme at all. I'm not a hater, just a person who is expressing his opinion, so I hope you take it like a man. Nas is deep and that's what appeals to me. Either disagree or agree that he's deep and we can go from there. Bama, I think you already stated your answer, so we just have to disagree. Point taken, but you said yourself that if you study his words then maybe it would be insightful. I say he is, if you can't see 3:16 or anybody else, it makes me ask "are you serious or just hating?" Holla. Oh yeah, Best, D.C., born and raised.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Damn, fresh from Chemistry and what do I see, this 3:16 dude wit something to say. Well 3:16 this is dedicated to you dun.

3:16 or 36/24/36?/of Adam's qualities, or do you attain a women's preference/ dun ya flow is mad premature/ Ill spit nicer bars wit out acquiring American literature/ "Stone Cold" you fuckin groupie/ If we battled on a U-haul truck ya flow still wouldn't move me/ Wit Hillis's dick between ya lips/phuckin faggot stick to workin ya hips/ Cause ya spits is pitiful/ We could take it to the streets, Ill leave ya condition critical/ How dare you come at "The Best", Im a lyrical general/ dun Ill steal ya soul, leaving you utterly invisible/ Im a disect your foolish lyrical career/ Ya flows is D.U.I. consistently in fear/ This concluding bar will definitely cease you to rest/ Furious at me cause positive was the results of ya AIDS test.....muphucka

Oh and the single "One Mic" on Stillmatic is better than the whole phucking Blueprint Album!!

With the Nas and P/Havoc beef I am not sure...niggaz at home say it is not true. Oh yeah Nas and AZ had a concert in Rochester a couple of weeks back and some dun threw a bottle at Nas and then Nas spit in this dudes face. A mad azz brawl broke out and I hear that AZ ran. This better not be true. I'll keep duns posted 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Theres no way Nas would attack P.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Qoolout, if you want to hear the story, just scroll back to what i posted on November 27,2001, or also go to allhiphop.com and the story is called "Beanie/Jadakiss beef Flares UP" You'll be able to do the rest. Holla at ya boy Q

-- Joe P (j_dolo@nvctc.com), November 28, 2001.

Before I post my response lyrics, I just wanna prove to everybody how weak Queens is. Ain't nobody Down South ever, I mean eva, eva, eva, eva, eva, eva... got they ass roughed up by somebody in P. Diddy's camp! And then that faggot had the nerve to wanna press charges! Bet y'all forgot about that Hate Me Now episode. Faggot ass Queens can't even stand up to the softest nigga in rap! His name was damn Puffy! You know he ain't bout shit, but he whipped Nas' Esco-ass. LOL... Queensbridge need to get real.

When I wrote these lyrics, I ain't read that shit from faggot ass Big J (or Big Gay) so he ain't mentioned, but don't think I ain't noticed you tryin to represent ya broke ass "never sold albums in triple digits" set, and I will come after your gay ass.

If real niggaz don't care about record sales, why does Nas keep puttin out albums? His shit don't sell so why bother? He just keep it underground, right? Hardly. The bitch cares about record sales, which is exactly why he did that song "Nastradamus" and "You Owe Me" and that gay ass remake with Mariah Carey. So don't gimme that real niggas don't care about record sales trash. Real niggas wouldn't sell drugs or steal cars if it didn't pay you garbage ass nigga. Niggas DO care about sales.

Here I go, with this new flow, DUNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

"Don't make me bite you, The Best, with this venom drippin from my teeth/the poison I inject in your bloodstream will make you squash all ya beef//A true DOWN SOUTH playa ain't worried bout no queen from Queensbridge/we comin hard wit some other shit that you ain't ever seen, kid//The Best ain't on my level, the criteria is too demanding/start a battle with me, and I'll be the last man standing//Nas is a wasted poet who has done nothing for music/If you put yo trust in Nas, I guarantee he will lose it//Don't be fooled, kid and don't get it twisted/If you wrote down Nas' credentials, it'd be a short list, bitch//Naw, I take that back, it'd be a blank peice of paper/Nas should take all his albums and toss em in an incinerator//No sin is greater than an artist livin off one LP/There's no savior for that sin so Nas is goin to hell, G//Please quit postin Nasty Nas' lyrics from Illmatic/It's not 1994, dawg, Nas doesn't still have it//Stillmatic's gon be garbage AKA Nastradamus Part 2/So pull out the tissue, cuz Nas gon break yo heart, dude//So I suggest you beat ya meat and get cozy with the vaseline/Test me and I will put my foot through ya guts right past ya spleen..."

If anybody REALLY wants to hear me rap, I can put that shit on wax, make an mp3, and send it to you somehow. I don't give a fuck. I love to rap. Lox, we cool, take my shit about NY in context. I ain't got nothin against NYC, it's cool. But if some NYC cats diss the South...well, you know what I gotta do, cousin. But you still straight. Qoolout, 3:16, y'all cool, too. Nothin but love here, dunnies! Bama, keep it dirty, dirty on them wack ass QB hoes. I got mad love for Bama (even though they used to whip up on my beloved Volunteers when I was growin up...) If them Queens from Queens get out of line, just say you gon send Puffy to whip they ass, and they'll fall in line with the quicks. LOL... Puffy runs the whole QB...LOL

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 28, 2001.

I said I wasn't going to reply to this cat, but damn here I go.

im a specialist/ better yet "The Best" of this/ watch me get treacherous/ i flow like trancendentalists/ my rhymes is high tec, cause sharp minds think bolder/ ya flow is pre school, wait til they get older/ so im official/ ill blow through hillis like a tissue/ oh yeah, its meant to diss you/ i don't want "Southern Hospitality"/ my queens atmosphere is the reality/ comin' at me like an unarmed robbery/ dun you must be dumb/ how you goin' to defeat me wit no lyrical guns?/ ya couldn't play 6th man on my team/ flows is too experienced, stay pursuing 3/6 Mafia's "tongue ring"/ HILLIS, face it dun ya spits is bogus/ need to do like j-hov and "stay focused"/ no need to reply wit ya hocus pocus/ betta stick to what you do best "SINGING THA CHORUS"/ my flow is a disease it makes you sick/ i guess i can climb down to your lyrical level..........NIGGA SUCK MY DICK....muphucka

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

Hillis you a solid cat. I find your disses humorous. Coming from the south I would not even have expected you to write even that. It's mad cool though, keep being who you be, and I will respect you for that. 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

The "Best" in this game is not in the computer/you got guns i got cannons thats ready to shoot ya/not real ones but lyrics comin out the "future"/i ride bikes while u niggas ride a scooter/i dont battle but i will if i have ta/if forced to ima have to come at ya/the best ones are dead/i'm talkin bout biggie and Pac/the real ones bled/From Brick City to Watts/ya'll gonna have to gimme my spot/before i go get me my glock/ten shots niggas now gimme my props/Jay-z talkin bout that he swear he da best/next time you come to Queens hope you wearin a vest/Jay-z or J-Hova/u crazy it stays colda/stillmatic comes out its Game ova/ One

-- J-Dolo (J_dolo@nvctc.com), November 28, 2001.

reply to j-dolo:

cannons disappeared in the 18th century/ nuclear lyricism, dun its within me/ ya flow barely touches the basics/ my spits are the Jordan 17's your's the 80's asics/ my rhymes is juicy, yours fruity like roll-ups/ i spit immensely and u swallow my throw up/ i don't even know why you decided to show up/ i strategize ya flows, torture and hold u for ransom/ u not physically suitable for a gloc, maybe a magnum/ and u will be meritted to earn ya spot/ nothin' in life's for free, so i pray those lyrics aren't "bought"/ your a foreigner, acceptance cant possibly be serious/ saying "his flow is clever" i know u curious/ my flow is jedi "may the force be with u"/ ive advanced ya rhymes they were evidently misused/ QUEENS may have been terrorized/ but battling me, dun u committing suicide...muphucka

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 28, 2001.

back to the best bastard

I bomb atomically/socrates philosophies and hypothosis/even wu-tang couldn't conceive these/yo' style is weak/blown over in gentle breeze/while mine stand tall like trees/you tremble at the knees/like phoroe monch said/i'm the worst nightmare you ever had/but yous scared of bunnies/so i guess i aint that bad/but yous is one of them hip hop queers/go listen to britney spears/drink yo' non-alco beers/you still owe me arears/yo' crew is n-sync, while mines is the ROC/mines make you think while you just suck cock

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 29, 2001.

Q, I aint pointin' shit at you, you just brought up a point that I replied to, no offense meant dog, but like H3000, I stopped being nice.

Best, this is for you. Crack head...

This time i'm takin' time to write, just to add to the battle/fucker i seen yo' crib/all you got there is a rattle/yous following the "matic" herd like yo' name was fuckin' cattle/keep spittin' at you till your colleages start to cackle/You sat here tryin' to rep yo' reputation/but all you known for in the streets is yo' constant masturbation/in the current situation/i can see yo' frustration/real thugs wont even give you lubrication/im the SAS, fuck y'all marines/Best get out from that screen/dont make me start a scene cos my shit is obscene/can you face up to me?/then why you on your knees/beggin' to God PLEASE!/dont let him take my Gs/what fuckin' Gs y'all got, you aint even got D/cos im post-apocolyptic/never hesitate to flip it/muthafucka can you dig it/No, you just dig your own grave/either you mighty stupid or yo' ass is fuckin' brave/I dont believe the latter, so i guess yous the first/is that a crew car over there, damn thats your herse/peeps are lining the streets when they be seein' you passin'/but is they all mourning, hell no they all laughin'/will they burn him up, or throw his body in a hole/in my opinion they should have left you where you fall/but your gums are still flappin'/give up the fuckin' rappin, you readin' rap for beginners/QB is not the winners, just like HOVE said, i will not lose/therefore you cannot chose/so walk a mile in my shoes, and bop to my beat/so i can show you the street/but this time without the laughter/thats comin' after/dont ever think im afraid to clap ya/but like your favourite son said/you can hate me now/he should've never said it/look at y'all now

If y'all want to know more on the Nas dissin' Prodigy, Foxy and Cormega, its at jackin4beats.com

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 29, 2001.

what up Willis? need a whole day to think of lyrics just for me? well i would too seein how badly i disses you rednecks downsouth, oh by the way BIGGIE was the FIRST rapper to ever go diamond(sold 10 million records) keep bringin it to Queens and ill keep bringin it to you bitch. and i aint typing no damn rhymes either.

p.s i think nas is sellin out if he disses my man P.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Yo! This is the last time I'ma kick any lines on this thread, cos I cannot be fucked with all of that. I'ma just stick to talkin' bout rap.

Dont forget the Streetfighter soundtrack/the Men in Black soundtrack/that Oocie Wally track/is that what y'all kick in yo' shack/the joint with 3LW and the joint with ginuwine/the joint with mariah, just pop with a rhyme/NAS IS LIKE... Ronald with a reefer/friendly for the kids but hangin' on to street thug culture/like the hip hop vulture/pickin' at 2pac/with yo' claims of sellin' crack/but like Roots Manuva, i'm kickin' the cack/hasn't been MATIC since he was ILL/but y'all followers yellin' that he STILL got it/check your optic/but IT WAS WRITTEN that he allready lost it.

Damn, I need to find something that rhymes with Nastradamus.

Im provin' a point right in front of your eyes, beef promotes interest, thats why theres so much more posts on this thread now, in the same way hova and esco have done it.

YO! i'ma drop some more promotion of UK shit. Producer Adam F, got his own album called "Kaos", featuring the likes of Redman, M.O.P, Capone and N.O.R.E, LL, Beenie Man, De La Soul, Pharoe Monch, and a load of others i cant remember right now. If you aint got it yet, get it, its some hot shit. Yo Bama, Hillis, Qool, J-dolo, Steph, LOX, Hollywood, and everyone else, i got nothing but love for y'all. But peeps gots to realise that until Nas can say different, Jay-Z (like my boy Lennox Lewis) is the current undisputed heavyweight champion of rap. Other people like Beans, Jada, and Mobb Deep (no matter how good they are) are middleweights, and thats how it will allways be. P.Diddlydiddly is lightweight, straight up.

R.I.P Ose

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 29, 2001.

i think that jay-z iz hatin on mobb deep because they are realer than his corny ass when jay-z came with the takeover he was just wasting his time doin all that bullshit talkin but when prodigy came out wit his underground shit about j he made it clear that he want war and roc aint ready 4 queensbridge niggas jay-z got them niggas far as sales but lyrics prodigy iz way more real about the streets FUCK ROC AND EVERYBODY ON JAY-Z DICK wait till infamy drop dunn,

-- SLIMM FROM FLOYD $T (MEDDIE478@AOL.COM), November 29, 2001.

Damn some of y'all need helmets, gloves and a drivers license the way y'all be ridin these niggas dicks. Just admit it fools, for one, hip hop headz will never fully agree on anything. So this is all senseless. Second, Nas is a very gifted emcee (even though he got Big Daddy Kane-itist and forgot where his strength was and ventured off in to bling bling land and can't get back.) The case in point is that he got out right Shitted on!!!! (I mean elephant shit...big ass turds and the brown watery shit!) If he is the God y'all say he is and he thinks he is, he'll come back give us our expectations. I say wait and see. As far as Mobb Deep....I hear they are dissin Jigga on every track. That's what it's gonna take but, anyone who has done that fell off hard (ie:Kool Moe Dee-Knowledge is King and Antoinette- The Gangtress....who?....exactly...Lyte dug in her ass like a suppository). Prodigy got straight clowned (Like he got shitted on by a herd of large animals in waves.) How do you comeback at a picture yourself in Ballet garb.....simple....YOU CAN'T!! No matter how gangsta and thug you claim to be....your skirt just got lifted. The whole world now knows you are that fake ass thug! Just my commentary...oh yeah Nelly (the new MC Hammer will be gone in a month or so), Fabolous (c'mon now, If Ja rule is DMX jr then this Nigga must be Mase jr...his album has some bangers on it for dancin...but longevity....NADA!) Lastly Pac, he was good....but the best....not hardly. White kids and kids under 26 believe that. One

-- R-Son (Lionpsyche@yahoo.com), November 29, 2001.

3:16, you really need to stop making a fool out of yourself with those corny lines.

I doubt that was my man P in that picture.

Willis, keep thinking.

Im finding it really hard that nas is dissing P, it wouldnt be logical they both hate Gayz, whats to beef about.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

R-Son, before I cuss yo ass out for that bullshit about Pac (I mean, you have to be Black and over 26 to have a legitimate pick for the best rapper of all time? Are you seriously that ignorant?), who do you think is the best?

The Best, I would normally appreciate your comment about my rapping, but it was laced with this condescending, patronizing tone. I guess you were "patting me on my head" for being a good lyricist, or something. Then you had the nerve to imply that since I'm from the South, you were surprised that I could do "even that (your own words)." Kind of like White folks are surprised when a nigga has 4.0 GPA. Shit like that. I bet you didn't think I would notice, so a la 2Pac, "I don't care if you kiss my ass from here to across the street boy: It's on."

Back wit some mo flow for ya, DUNNEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!!!!!

"It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas/Showed Nas had no courage; he better find the Wizard of Oz//It's like Queens been soft ever since Pac blasted Mobb Deep/and came with that shit to make Queens' whole mob sleep//I'll come to Queens and wreak HAVOC, cuz I'm the real PRODIGY/Ain't nobody from fuck ass Quuens gon be stoppin me//Ain't no QUIET STORM here, the South bring thunder and lightning/And best believe that the South bring the thunder when fightin//Queersbridge need to sit down and listen to my lecture/And quit tryin to figure out who's pitcher and who's catcher//Mobb Deep's career is over, I seen it in the back of a hearse/listenin to a QB album is true HELL ON EARTH//Imagine weak ass Queenie niggas tryin to impersonate the man/I suggest you practice safe sex, so you don't impregnate ya hand//Big J ain't shit to me, I've raised the bar/He can go suck Nas dick in the back of Esco's car//Escobar's fallen and he can't get up/I'll kick a man while he's down so Nas gon get hit up//I might let The Best lick my balls, cuz that's what enemies are for/Bring ya gal DOWN SOUTH and it's 23 at ya whore//23 niggas with 23 big dicks/We got yo gal ready and willing to take 23 big licks//Send the bitch back to Queens and I catch y'all walkin alone/I start fucking with you and ya boo before you reach home//You turn and ask me 'Why you fuckin wit me, man?'/I pull out the piece and say, 'FUCK YOU NIGGA! CUZ I CAN!!!"

Like my nigga Juvenile say, "Whodi, what's up?!"

RIP to Pac, Biggie, QB's credibility, QB's appeal, and Nas' nuts And soon to be RIP to sickle cell anemia ass Mobb Deep. LOL... You KNOW Queens ain't shit when Nas gets his ass served by P. Diddy! LOL.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 29, 2001.

first off dumbass pdiddy and his bodyguards ruffed up the guy of put his dumb ass on the cross in the video and not nas, idiot.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

hahahahaha Willis, its funny how you claim the south to be the kings of rap but your post was better than any south rapper could do. first off any rapper from the south would start it off like It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea whodie)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah. then the beat would, after 10 minutes come in and then guess what would happen? Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah)Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas(yea yeah). then they would finish the rest of the song but saying each word and make it seem as though they wernt really rapping(which they dont, for them its reading)

but really that made you seem even more of a flaming faggot that you are. QB are the only real rappers out there right now son.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Damn im liking this online rhyming thru battling! And some of it wuz pretty damn good. The Best, i wuz impressed ure fuckin good at it. Big J, I must say, that wuz pretty damn funny shit about what a rapper from the south would say hahaha. 3:16 i wuz really feelin ure last post. U're so rite about beef sparking interest and this thread is sure as hell provin that. Btw loved that line there "hasn't been matic since he was ill".

I totally agree about all the shit about music from the south. It really pretty much all is club shit with no depth but yo the QB rappers got songs like that too. Just not as much. And c'mon we all love 2 hear that south music at some point so don't go hatin on it too much y'all.
i'm out, later

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

Yo Big J. I think you've made some good points dog. I'm from the south y'all but I got love for anybody that puts out good shit. But I've got my man Hillis' back fo' real yo'. By the way H3K, your Vols are the shiznit this year playa. I wish my Tide were as good. But enough of the azzkizzin. Hillis, all yo' shit is the realest muthafuckin' shit I've read so far. Keep reppin' the dirty. We know the truth kid. As for my QB niggaz. Y'all are cool. That's what this thread is all about. Exchanging ideas and arguing about who's tight and who's wack. Personally I think Nas is overrated. But I'm open minded enough to give his new shit a shot. If it's dope, then I'll be the first to post some humble ass shit up on this thread admitting my bad. At the same time, if Stillmatic is "doo", me and my dog Hillis will be the first up on this shit to beat on our chests. In any case, I got love for all of y'all. I might disagree, but I ain't no hata'. And that's my word.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 29, 2001.

I don't care who Puffy roughed up. Point being, wouldn't nobody DOWN HEAH be worried about soft ass P. Diddy. And I know you ain't tryin to diss the South like that! If it was an up North rapper rappin my lyrics it would be like this: "It's like Queens been soft ever since Puffy roughed up Nas" Then 1 minute later the CD would be ejected and thrown out the window because the beat was shitty, the flow was busted, and the sales were nonexistent.

See that's why you cats up North can't sell shit. You're too arrogant to work on your MUSIC because you think lyrics outweigh the beat and words outweigh delivery. And y'all think anyone who chooses a beat over lyrics is simple minded or a white boy or some other type of ignorant shit. First off, niggas down South listen to Mobb Deep, Nas, Jay-Z, Common, and all you up North/East Coast cats. We appreciate the lyrics and all, so I don't know how you can say we're simple minded. The fact is, we place emphasis on how a song SOUNDS. True, Three 6 Mafia don't talk about shit. Sure, Cash Money hasn't done a song outside of fuckin hoes and Bling Bling. Sure, Master P made millions off of yellin "Ungh!" on every track. Sure, Nelly has less talent than Nas. But I don't give a fuck what anyone of you say, all the aforementioned rappers SOUND 10 times better because the beat is bangin and they rap to the beat. Whereas someone like Common may be deep, but he SOUNDS like he should rap in 1989 with Kool Moe Dee or somebody. His beats aren't impressive and his delivery is too basic. That's why he will never sell until he switches up his flow.

Look at Jay-Z if you don't believe. Nas is probably a deeper lyricist than Nas, but Jay-Z is definitely wittier and his wordplay is better. Jay and Nas both have delivery problems (Nas sounds 10, Jay is monotone) but Jay realizes the value of a nice beat which is why he only works with the best producers and why he sells. And those who don't sell call him pop, but Jay can't help it he has an ear for MUSIC, which is what he's supposed to be producin. Nas may be a poet, but he definitely lacks as a musician (evidence: his last three albums).

Also, why does everybody want Timbaland? That nigga sho can't rap! It's because his beats bang. Everybody, including Nas, would love to rep a Timbaland produced album, so don't get it twisted. Anybody who knows anything about puttin out good MUSIC knows you start with the beat.

And then you up North dunnies love to say shit like, "Only white people buy that South shit." I don't know what kind of White people y'all got up there, but all the White people I know DOWN HEAH know about Illmatic, The Infamous, Mos Def, Talib Kweli and DJ Hi-Tek, and definitely Ready To Die and a lot of Up North hip-hop classics. And they have em in they CD collection, too. I don't know why y'all are naive enough to think only Black people buy Nas' shit or "real" hip- hop, and White people put Nelly on the map. That's bullshit, and you know it. White people buy all types of hip-hop and if Nas, Mobb Deep, or whoever up North go platinum, gold, wood, whatever, then you can believe White people make up 75% of the sales. And that's real.

And what makes a good lyricist is debateable, too. I mean, Nas is tight because of the actual message he conveys. True enough. But someone like Bun B (check out his verse on Big Pimpin), or Eminem are tight lyricists because of the words they place together. For example on "Renegade" or "Dead Wrong" or "Murder, Murder" Eminem laces so many different phrases together, it's sick! So you got word play. Then there's someone like Ludacris who has humorous lyrics. They're tight because they're funny. And who says deep lyrics are better than funny lyrics? I personaly enjoy Ludacris' humor over any of Nas' joints. Then there's Biggie who was extremely witty and used cold ass metaphors and could actually deliver his lyrics with some passion. So you throw in wit. Then you got Jay, who's similar to BIG. And don't sleep on Twista. Fast lyrics are tight, too. Then you got Project Pat who is so wack you can't help but laugh at his shit. I mean, be real. Take Project Pat at face value and tell me "Chickenhead" ain't the funniest thing you've ever heard. Lyrics are all different. I mean, I feel like I'm pretty openminded in rap, and I can dig some Nas, Mobb Deep, and I happened to love Nas' verse in Da Bridge 2001 about Memphis Bleek. But for the most part Nas hasn't come out with SONGS that SOUND good like other rappers which is why he doesn't sell and why he is failing at being a complete MUSICIAN.

All I'm saying is us niggas DOWN SOUTH appreciate lyrics, but we want it all. For example, "Project Windows" is a Nas classic because it has a soulful beat, Nas has tight lyrics, his delivery is on point, AND Ron Isley does the hook. It tied up all the loose ends. If Nas would stick to that on Stillmatic I guarantee it would go 5 times platinum. But we'll see.

I ain't through rappin. I'm a rapper. I love it. I'll be back blastin on you weak ass Queens queens. I'll be here reppin the South. Y'all niggaz know Timbaland is the hottest and where's he from? DA DIRTY! Cop that new Ludacris, whodies! It's tight! UGK Dirty Money, what?! Set It Off in this muthafucka. Bama, let dem wack ass niggas know about the South before we make em HIT DA FLOE ("Here we is boy")! Long live the DIRTY SOUTH! Kings like what?!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 29, 2001.

hmm, maybe you dont think NY has good beats is because you have been listening to the south hypnotizing beats for so long. first off i like NY's beat better because they are dirty and raw and dont have alot of fuckin crystal,rain dropin, telephone ringin whatever the hell beats. and no one and i mean NO ONE is worried about pdiddy "UP HEAH". Gayz is the only NY rapper i know who is over arrogant. and yes up were i live white boys dont know shit about rap but ROC and some of the south stuff and tupac, a handfull will know of biggie is, and styles, capone, nas? i wont go there. I never said you hicks down there are simple minded, but have no skill when it comes to really rapping. hmm if you think beats make a rapper then listen to Shaqs new song that came out a while ago, nice beat and had fuckin nate dogg on it(like 80% of the new songs do) and when i first saw it come on i aint see it no more lol. need another example? fine listen to a shittie sigel or memphis ass cheek song, or that guy on the fatty girl song. all sounded wack regardless of the sweet ass beats. but unfortunatly simpled minded people buy the shit because they like the beat and pay no attention to the words and those are the same people who cant feel nas, like it or not, 60% of those people are white. You should have been real before instead of hidin your feelings, that makes you fake, and its obvious you cant see shitty rapper when you see one cause your still dazzed from "bling bling" and "big pimpin" you say you can dig some QB shit and then a few lines later dis the fuck out of us, even faker.

And Bama, if nas's shit is wack(which it wont be) ill be the first nigga here to say it. like someone said before i dont see mother fuckas comparing gayzs shit to vol2 so why compare nas's shit and "i am" was a decent cd. you also say Willis is the realest one here? as my man P says "nigga please you waint even league he just follow my lead" another thing for this punk ass Willis,

man dont make me compare some dirty south lyrics to some of QB's, otherwise ill be forced to embarass some of yall hahaha. i already have two comparisons ready to embarass your asses.

hmm it was hard to find one that made any sense to put on here because basicly they are started with fuck or where da. and this particular group seemed to be quite on the perverted side since i saw songs entitled "porno movie" "lick my nuts" "azz and tittiez" so i just chose a random one to put up.

even though you dont want to admit it, you know the QB have the hardest rappers out there.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 29, 2001.

I want my spot back....There are many people here that I want to address so chill out and pay attention...Big J, you little young ass cockroach, shut the fuck up with all that Queens shit. What part are you from? Jackson Heights? Flushing? Corona? hanging on Junction Blvd? Lefrak Apt Complex? You young bitch needs to show some respect to your elders! My little cousin is a Latin King who goes to Newtown Highschool Im have to tell him to shut your ass up.or I should I give a call to my man King Tone. Im not even in the States but you got me upset with all your yapping about where you are from....Steph, what did you say? Your not even on my level, you child. You are probably from Canmore or Bamf, or outside of Ottawa,or Armstrong, Enderby, in some hick field, who just moved to Montreal, and started hanging out with some Jamaican people and now your probaly listening to some Ragga. You dont know shit hermano/hermana. Cant decide if your a girl or boy? What you didn't think I knew those places, I got people all over the world tough kid!!...The Best, I will spare you, dont know if you came at me or not. Your embarassing yourself with all those weak ass rhymes..3:16, didn't like london much cause of the weather. but I got plenty of people there who represent for me. England is going to the Cup, So is Ecuador!!! Sorry about your man Ose, Im sure he was a fine person....Hillis que fue hermano!! Qoolout, still battling ,huh? and to the person or people who think Tupac is still alive get over it, he is dead, move on with your lives. Steve, whats up brother??...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE-MANNY GUEVARA....Que Viva Ecuador..2002

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Yo im feelin' both the East and the South, but in different places. My little brother likes the South cos he gets the beat and he dont get the lyrics yet. I like the South cos it entertains the hell out of me, but i prefer the East cos they kick it how it is (this is my opinion, im not tryin to prophesise to y'all). Not that there are no tight beats in the East (Izzo by Jay-Z, Shoot 'em up by Nas etc), but the East aint on a loop like the South kicks it. The East has been about lyrical content since BDP, or before (I just cant remember when). Thing is, you couldn't play "Criminal Minded" in a club. I agree with you Hillis, y'all down South appreciate tight flow, y'all just get it from the East, and stick to making the dope beats. And fuck Queersbridge, I just seen the provisional cover for STILLmatic, Nas is sat on a wall like Humpty Dumpty gettin' beef from a pigeon!. He just gots to make sure he dont fall off again.

yo this is from "the Bridge is Over" on Criminal minded...

You see me come in any dance wid de spliff of sensei/Down with the sound called BDP/If you want to join the crew well you must see me/Ya can't sound like Shan or the one Marley/Because Shan and Marley Marl dem-a-rhymin like they gay/Pickin up the mic, mon, dem don't know what to say/Sayin that hip-hop started out in Queensbridge/Sayin lies like that, mon, you know dem can't live/So I, tell them again, me come to tell them again, gwan!/Tell them again, me come to tell them agaaain/Tell them again, me come to tell them again, gwan!/Tell them again, me come to te-ell them/Manhattan keeps on makin it, Brooklyn keeps on takin it/Bronx keeps creatin it, and Queens keeps on fakin it

Changin' the subject for a minute, when Makvelli was re-released by Suge after he got out, the "Suge shot me" line was removed.

(This is the last time i'ma say this cos that shit is behind me) R.I.P Ose 1983-2001. Peace

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), November 30, 2001.

Damn! My last psot was long as hell. Shit, but a few more things. So what if we make tight choruses? Should our choruses suck? I mean, damn, a chorus is the first lyrical part of a song that anybody remembers so it would behoove ANY musician to make it as tight as possible.

And to Steph, I'm not like the other fools who hold it against you because you're white, female, 16, etc. But I heard you say the South has no depth. That's some more bullshit I'm talkin about. Just because you see Southerners jumpin around and gettin buck on BET and MTV, it's stupid for you to think that every Southern song or album is just a club banger. For example, I dare you to go back and check out Outkast's first album (Southernplayalistic) and listen to joints like "Git Up, Get Out" or "D.E.E.P." Even Three 6 has some deep songs. Like "In 2 Deep" is not BET type shit. Hell even Master P comes out with songs about his mama. Damn, every Southern song ain't about throwin elbows or bling bling or tongue rings. Maybe if you people actually listened to a whole album, you would understand.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 30, 2001.

Y'all east coasters should check out anything by my niggaz Goodie Mob. These cats is as deep as any of those NY dudes. My dog Hillis was on point once again with his last post. Big J, you keep comin' at us like we don't dig the QB scene, dog. I'm not sure how Hillis feels, but I'm down with Mobb Deep and I think Prodigy's joint was dope. I just ain't feelin' Nas like some of y'all. And there's far too much generalizaton goin' on up in here. Hell yeah the South's put out some wack ass, mindless, repetitive bull shit. But there's plenty of garbage bein' spit out of NY niggaz mouths as well. And depth? Are you kidding me? NY dudes might be a little more polished on the mic, but it don't mean that the shit they rap about is deep. Fuck. I love 'Kiss, but do you think his topics are any deeper than anything my Three-Six playas be rappin 'bout. The Lox and Mobb Deep spit about dumb shit all the time. At least Outkast, Goodie Mob and the Dungeon Family have some semblance of political and social consciousness.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.

Like Havoc once said "Am i holdin it down? im fraid so youngin."

tight choras my ass. the only southern rapper with a good choras is ludacris and a select few. Manny haha you fuckin dumbass, you dont deserve a response from me.3:16, what did i tell you about those punk ass wack lines youngin. you can talk all the shit you want about QB because you know they are the hardest workers out there, unlike the south they say hmm whats this song gonna be called, i know what about where da cheese at? nah we already did that one 3 times. what about where da hoes at? 11 times. oh i know how about where da smoke at? ah perfect now the 15 repeating choras in the begining wil be. "where da smoke at?(yeah whodi) where da smoke at? i wanna smoke"

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

K Manny what the fuck are u talking about. First off, well i'll say it so u can understand better: que te importa de donde soy, estamos hablando de musica y es solo eso que importa, anda cagar. And the point of this thread isn't to argue and ure goin and picking fights for nothing fuck why u being like that? And u make no sense. Why wouldn't I be from mtl anyway and why wouldn't i sure whether im a girl or guy ahaha what the fuck. And whats that supposed 2 mean...u got ppl all over or wtv u said...ure gonna have ure ppl come battle this shit out with me?? Ure taking this too far, there is nothing 2 fight over, why u doin this?? Well enough bout this shit...

Hillis, ure right, my bad, sorry about that. I don't have anything against the south tho, I did say that, or something like that i don't remember lol. But sorry.

Ah shit i had other shit to say but I can't remember. Oh well. Got class now, later

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

3:16, I could care less that you stopped being nice, but like you said, no offense meant. None taken on this side and hopefully it's vice versa. Bama, I feel what you were saying, but I gotta disagree with you on what you said about Jada. That man does have his party type songs, but he got his share of deep rhymes too. And Manny, naw I at battlin'; I'm just chillin watching the others go at it. But it's kinda funny to watch, me and you were two of the many who started it. But anyway, keep expressing y'alls opinions; I feel y'all. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Dudes keep talking about how Nas's last three albums were "wack".....dun please! It Was Written was lyrically great and the beats were hot also. I Am was a solid album, but not to Nas's full potential with a dish of those "commercial tracks". Nastradamus was only slacking because duns bootlegged the shyt out of it, and Nasty had to remake the whole phucking album in a month, production and all wo. The reason "the south" receive platinum plaque after platinum plaque after platinum plaque is because their music pertains to suburban america, meaning teenage white males and females cop their lp's. For instance, ask a typical "Brad" what does he think about Ludacris, then ask him how does he feel about Twalib Kweli, dude would probably be like who? I am not knocking the south because they are constantly after the "hustle". Oh and like I said before Nas doesn't give a phuck about sales because his nicest album only went gold, and his wackest album went 3x platinum, the nigga is already rich. Saying this, the south and east contrast in that the souths' albums even though they are WACK will go platinum and they will still be satisfied ex.) Project English, and east cats do care about sales, but they will recognize their album wasn't up to its full potential and will get criticized about it ex.) Nastradamus.

Oh and Bama I have a Goodie Mob album in my collection and their is no substance with their lyrics, what are you talking about? You south niggaz really need to cop Stillmatic when it drops and listen to "One Mic" that joint will cease all your chatter. Oh and Manny, dun who are you, honestly, I could care less if you aren't feelin' my lyrics. KEEP MY NAME FROM YA FINGAZ.

If Nas fell off then he took "hip hop" with him......think about it

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Oh yeah, Best, I gotta agree about "I am." Minus a few tracks, that CD was tight. Peeps need to give it a listen. And somebdy tell me this. What exactly are 16 bars? Now I know my rap, but I'm stuck on this one. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Yo "The Best", it's cool that you're open minded enough to have a Goodie Mob joint in your collection. Substance is a matter of taste. As a black man, who definitely loves head bobbin'southern hip hop beats, I also have a social and political conciousness. Goodie Mob's "Beautiful Skin" addresses the issue of the degradation of our women in contemporary black society.

Hasn't anyone ever told you you got beautiful skin?/ You're more than welcome, what do you desire within?/ I just, wanna be, there's no need to put titles on you and me/ Those are limitations, living and learning are our only obligations/ Equality, honesty, independence, intelligence, emotion and devotion/ Humbly seeking to hear God when he's speaking/ At one time, my mind, just, couldn't conceive/ A woman had to dress a certain way to believe/ But, in the same breath, a-llow me to say/ That, if you believed young lady, you wouldn't dress that way/ And I, was attracted to your class, I couldn't see all yo' ass/ And, I was very content, and you deserved every compliment/ Now, remember our indifferences make us the same/ You gotta have some game, or, many of you/ won't even be able to take care of yourself, uh/ And Love, when I look at you, I see my reflection/ So I offer my love, affection and protection/ Shawty, you dead fine, but the bottom-line is/ You're still my sister

Now again, substance is a matter of taste. I think that shit is not only deep, but beautifully and intelligently written. Goodie Mob's "Still Standing" contains many other cuts dealing with a variety of pertinent issues affecting not only the African-American culture, but everyone's muthafuckin' culture.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.

Damn, Big J. How about I be like you "real" up North QB cats: "Hey, dunny, let's do a song." "Ok, what should it be about?" "The ghetto and how rough it is. I mean, people been singing about that since Marvin Gaye, but there's no way we can play it out." "Ok!"

Two months later . . .

"Damn, dunny! We only sold 5 copies of that last song! What should we do?" "I know! Let's just say how everybody else isn't real hip-hop." "Yeah, and after that we can talk about the ghetto again!" "Word up, dunny. That's mad fresh, yo. Hey, wanna go watch a Sisqo video?" "Hell yeah! Maybe he'll take his shirt off!"

Two months later . . .

"Yo, son. Jay-Z sold more in his first week than we have all year!" "Don't forget he showed me in a ballerina oufit." "At least he didn't have a picture of us in our bras and panties, dun." "Yeah, that would really su- OH MY GOD!!! I"M HAVING A SEIZURE FROM SICKLE CELL ANEMIA!!!"

LOL...QB is straight slop . . .

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 30, 2001.

Bama. You da man. I'm glad you remember that shit, cuz "Beautiful Skin" not only had a poignant message, but the beat was tight, too. They delivered the lyrics with some emotion. Bigg Gipp's verse was sort of . . . off, but the song as whole had everything you needed. And don't forget about that message against littering at the end of the song! See, them up North people got they heads up they own rappers' asses that they can't see the beauty of all types of hip hop. But really, ignorance is bliss, and Big J and The Best can keep they happy asses right up in Queersbridge.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 30, 2001.

Yo. I humbly stand corrected on my nigga Nas. I stumbled across these deep ass lyrics off of "I Am". Damn y'all was right. Nas is a poet...

My money, money, money, my bitch is my money/ Ohhh money you my honey/ Money is my bitch/ Ohhh money, money, money, love her cause she keep a nigga rich/ Ohhh money you my honey, but I think she got me pussy whipped/ My money, money, money, my bitch is my money/Ohhh money you my honey Money is my bitch/ Ohhh money, money, money/, Yeah yeah that bitch treat me like a trick/Ohhh money you my honey,/ she says without her I cant be rich

Are you serious?! Sheeeeit. That shit makes Trick Daddy look like Walt Whitman. No wonder Nas doesn't "doesn't give a phuck about sales." Why should he worry about sales when evidently he's staying true to the art with insightful gems like that?

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.



-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Yo Lox. You're str8 wit me kid. But us south side balla's already admitted that a lot of our shit is heavier on the beatz and lighter on the lyrics. We know this. It's already been pointed out that the south's also got some niggaz who can spit some knowledge as well. My point of contention is that NY has the SAME kind of diversity. Not all of them fools are deep ass lyrical masters. Damn, the wackest of them all, Mr. Sean Combs, came from those streets. I concede that overall, the East might be a little better lyrically, and the South has got beatz locked down. The bottom line is, regardless of coast, state, 'hood, or projects, you got your share of tight MC's and wack muthafuckas. I represent the dirty, but I'll listen to any shit that entertains, enlightens or moves my black ass. Fuck, it don't even have to be hip hop for that matter.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.

Come on Bama. You goin like that? Those Nas lyrics you posted, you know that's just the chorus. I mean, it's not one of Nas' best hooks, but it's no worse than a hook like Bling Bling, or Back that thing up. What's the difference? Also, that song is a perfect example of how Nas makes you think. Now I repeat that that is not one of his best raps, but still, it makes you think. You already said that those type of songs don't really do it for you; I respect that and now I see why you wouldn't like that particular song. But anyway, what Nas did in that song was the same thing Pac did in "Me and my Girlfriend." Now I'm not a fan of copying other rappers, but still I like the concept of rapping about one thing (like Pac did with the guns/girls) but on another level you are talking about something different. And just FYI I wasn't feeling those lyrics by Goodie Mob. No hate intended, they just weren't all that tight to me. Also, I've seen a couple of post saying how Nas went pop, sold out, or something to that extent, when he did a joint with Mariah. Of course I disagree, but remember it goes both ways. Jay-Z did a song with her too; I liked his and Nas'. Luda did a song with her, Mystical did too. Did all of these people sell out as well? Just for the record, I hate Luda's songs and Mystical's. It has nothing to do with where they reside. I just don't like their styles or content. I've said it before, I really don't care where you live, I'm not trying to date you, if I were then I'd care. But to a rapper I'll say, "can you flow?" That's my question.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Damn, Lox! That's kind of fucked up, but since we squashed it, I'll over look it. Next thing: Bama, you are da man! I was just thinkin about that "Money is my Bitch" song. I knew the chorus was mad wack but I couldn't remember it exactly so I ain't say shit. But I gotta help out my QB niggas. Here go some more tight ass Nas choruses...

"Girl picture us married, you and me; K-I-S-S-I-N-G I remember the first time, girl you and me; F-U-C-K-I-N-G"

LOL! ROTFL! LMAO! Is that gay ass nigga serious?! What's this, a damn spelling bee?! Way to rhyme "I-N-G" with "I-N-G!" Score 2 more for them South boys.

But wait! There's more! Check out this hot Nas chorus:

"Nasty, Nas the Esco to Escobar Now he is Nastrodamus"

Don't forget you got to SING that trash! At least he can say he went R&B before Ja Rule! Them South boys from way DOWN TOWN!!! Swish!!!

I'll save the chorus from "New York State of Mind Pt. 2" for another post. Oh fuck it. I'll use it now. Just say "New York, New York" 8 times and you got it!

Lemme show you how dem DOWN BOTTOM niggas do it...

"Big J, you straight fruity like San Francisco dudes/I know you watch Dru Hill and get mesmerized by Sisqo's moves//I ain't worried bout Big J, cuz he sits down to piss/While he playin wit his meat I'm bout to down the chris//Got my head a lil tight, now I'm reay to fight/pop some No Doze with the coffee and I'll beat his ass all night//Goddam! Look at the beef that this ignorant fool made/I rip out Big J's heart and out flows the Kool-Aid//Yo heart don't pump blood ,and ya nuts don't hold semen/Think you can tangle with THE SOUTH, boy you must be dreamin//Since ya nuts can't hold semen, I'm sure yo mouth got a full deposit/So what if you and The Best fuckin? Come on out of the closet//Come on DOWN SOUTH, I'll bust this lyrical nut in ya face/Have you jumpin around gettin buck cuz you lovin the taste//I put the oven on bake, I'm bout to roast ya ass/Got heat left over for The Best and I'm gon toast that ass//You claim QB lyrics are sick? Then I'm gon make it my mission/to get QB lyrics a doctor cuz they in critical condition//I want QB lyrics out of hip hop; I'm gon start a petition/So RIP to Queersbridge, cuz it's not in contention..."




-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), November 30, 2001.

"Queens Bridge is my football field and QB doesn't stand for quarterback"-Nas

my flow is everlasting in similar fashion to herpies/ i'd prefer to be grimey, never attempt to be "dirty"/south duns continue to cross my warpath/ never to be outdone cause lyrically i'll "Burn" that ass/ mothaphuck ya choruses, mentally abuse ya beats/ and persuade ya pussy flows to stop killin they meats/ cause hip hop in its original form evolved from the East/ ya rhymes are "cheating" and need to be placed on detention/ i despise "Pastor Troy", but battlin' me should be against ya religion/ dun i'm thunderous and like weather i reign/ ya lyrics lack specific details like an essay in pain/ Hillis wishes to lace knowledge, but all he knows is controversy/ locked ya flows like Dean Malinko forcing them to scream mercy/ wo I'll infect ya ass with my STD, Skillfully Transmitted Death/ to leave queers like you suffering with every exhale of my breath/ you's a thug image fabricator on the internet faking/ its winter time for ya flows, they should be hybernating/ continuously speaking of the south's platinum plaques/ while the majority of their purchasers are opposite of black/ QB doesn't consist of queens, only cats that'll place ya body in a bag/ while south princesses have "tongue rings", "get it from they moma", and "shake it fast".....muphucka

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Adrian.....LOL, your "freestyles" are starting to sound the same!! You also have mentioned Sisqo in your flows twice......yeah I know it's nothing? FAGGOT AZZ DUDE


"Wait! There's more!" I bet the south, no I know the South radio stations will play Nasty Nas, but the east radio stations won't dare to attempt to play "yall" wack azz musiq. I wonder why?.....LMAO

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

I'ma let these lyrics and hooks, etc. speak for their self. I can't wait to see if any of you all will try to defend this nonsense. And I got this off the net. Please don't think this stuff is in my collection or in my head.

PIMP C For a trill, working the wheel, a pimp not a simp Keep the dope fiends higher than the Goodyear Blimp We eat so many shrimp, I got iodine poisoning Punk iggas make me sick with all the pidgeoning and bargaining You say that you a boss, I ain't believing that......... Take that monkey shit off, you embarrassing us I got the web from mezzazine, thick orange and yellow cuffs Hyper called on, on the hands-free phone The '84 roam, on them blades, 20-inch chrome If you got 16, you can get a biz-erp I'm choking on that doja sweet and sipping on that sizz-erp

Sippin' on some siz-erp, sip, sippin' on some, sip (Repeat 4x) LMAOLMAOLMAO

AND MASTER P (Chorus) Don't wanna go on livin' without you I got the hook up holla if you hear me (Ughhhhhh) and if we say bye bye bye then take my heart with you I got the hook up holla if you hear me (Ughhhhhh) Can we go on livin' without you I got the hook up holla if you hear me (Ughhhhhh) and if we say bye bye bye then take my heart with you AND JUVENILE

Yous a big fine women, won't you back that thing up Yous a big fine women, won't you back that thing up Yous a big fine women, won't you back that thing up Yous a big fine women, won't you back that thing up


Uh, Cadillac grills Cadillac mills Check out the oil on my Cadillac spills Matter fact candy paint Cadillac's kill So check out the ho's my Cadillac fills 20 inch wide 20 inch high Oh don't you like my 20 inch ride 20 inch thighs make 20 inch eyes Hoping for American 20 inch pies

Now if they just had weak hooks, that would be one thing, but the lyrics... well you see it for your self. It's all there and black and white. Don't kill the messager.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Aiight Qoolout. I'll give it up to you on that last post. Personally, I like Juvenile and UGK. 'Cris gets on my nerves a bit but I don't hate da nigga. Like "Ridin' Dirty", Juve's "400 degreez" is a southern classic. Not because, it is poetry on wax, but because it makes us down south playas snap our necks. We all can go on and on exchanging wack verses from rappers from all sorts of regions. There's plenty of garbage bein' put out by niggaz from all corners of this country. Qoolout, we both dig 'Kiss and we disagree on some other shit. That's cool. I got love for you 'cuz at least you present your arguments in an intelligent manner. I can't hate that. My nigga Hillis is the same way. Yo Hillis you're also funny as fuck too, dog. I'm pullin for your 'Vols too this Saturday. Dem battles between you and Manny as well as "The Best" is some classic shit. "The Best", I know you and my dog Hillis is beefin' but I gotta give it up to you too son. I ain't feelin' alot of your comments but I respect your shit and if all of us was agreein' on everything then there ain't no reason to read or post shit up on this thread.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), November 30, 2001.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA damn its funny how people will go to anything not to admit they are wrong. before i get to that fag Willis, LOX, your list was pretty solid, heres mine. oh and before i start even ODB did a joint with MI.

Skys the limit- The Notorious, Glorious B.I.G Regulaters- warren G feat nate dogg I aint mad at cha- 2pac changes- 2pac if i ruled the word- Nas ready or not- Fugees wooha- Busta Rhymes New flava in ya ear- Craig mack New flava in ya ear(remix)- Craig mack, Biggie smalls, LLCOOLJ, Busta Rhymes. California love- 2pac feat dre give me one more chance- Biggie smalls Quiet Storm- Mobb Deep I dont know what the fuck this song was called but it was off of the ruff ryders vol2-Snoop dogg, Scarface, Young wun, and Jadakiss. the song from the Sway and Tech cd- RZA, Eminem, Xibit, Chinoxl, Krs1 It was a good day- Ice Cube I aint a playa- Big Pun The Light- Common You can hate me now- Nas feat PEEdiddy We gonna make it- LOX Ruff ryders anthem- DMX your all i need- method man and mary j sorry ms jackson- outkast art of story tellin- outcast feat slick rick

theres probably some i left out but oh well

now for that fag Willis and bama(at least hes sort of respectable) ok you two pick the wackest songs off the cd to quote first of all. Willis, name a recent song talking about bad life ghetto, i thought so bitch. Juvenile came out with another song i just saw today, it was called she got it from her mama and is basicly the same thing as "ya dig" all four fuckin "ha" and probably many others. while your punkass waste time writing corny ass freestyles i deliever facts. so if you wanna keep scribling down rhymes in your power ranger note book in some subburbon white vile, go ahead. You want some QB lyrics? ok fine ill post em. bitch.

Prodigy- Imfamous minded

Yeah old school part one feel it The realest, Who be the realest Them niggaz stay Infamous minded U've been blinded Cut on your face Fucking with these mobb giants They are the victims We be the victors Sometime a nigga gotta step up And bring war, Spray ks And go out in a blaze Young guns learn to duck So they wont catch strays Wont shoot to be frontin' Or to waste shots for nothin If I'm pulling out my torch Im gonn hit somethin', Whatever Slugs through your avirex leather I close one lid So I could aim a little better I stop firing And de-cock the hammer You need triads I need to get up outta here Dont really think It's cool to let another man [Havoc] "Let me buck that nigga son" [Prodigy] I hold my own cannon and shoot just as fast Move with select few Dont fuck with lil dude Or little pistols Strictly the big Ru's Cause deuce-deuce its only good for hiding I need big firepower when I'm riding 52 shot clips You pop lips, Silence And i dont stop dumping till i hear sirens I'm not a boyz n the hood addict Menace fanatic I live the street life for real So i can brag it Pop gave me gun lesson back when i was a kid Now i fire more arms than he ever did

thats all i need to prove my point and this song wasnt even made into a video and its better than anything the south could do, lol you search long and hard for some good south lyrics. these werent even the best i could find, probably medium. and talking about NY boasting all the time, what about nelly's punk ass #1 song? he claims some rapper wants to be like him, lol i dont think so. and bama you post the choras trying to pull it off as lyrics to the actual song, wack. and back to you Willis. that wasnt realy prodigy in that picture, dumbass. and damnit you seem so obsessed with the amount of records a person sells (typical white feelings on rap) yeah we used to talk about the ghetto alot but what the fuck do you have to talk about? hmm lets see "chicken heads" "lick my nuts" "porno movie" "southern hospitality" the rappers from NY lived through hell to get to heaven and they can look back on there bad experiences and write a song about it, fuck it. i cant remember when the last time i saw a song about life in the ghetto. and ive never heard anyone use th phrase fresh in about 15 years son.

and sup to my niggaz, Q, Best, and the LOX

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Ive been able to proove all of Willis's shit false, where as hes yet to make a single key point in the whole arguement. one question remains... where my props at?

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Holla Big J, LOX and Best. All the rest of y'all qool with me too. I gotta question. For some reason I thought Timberland was from the east. I could be wrong. I think I saw someone (I think it was you Hillis, but I'm not sure) say that he was from the South. Anyway, let me know Hillis or anybody who knows. Also, I felt your last post Bama; I got a new found respect for you dogg. And Big J, your second to last post had me rolling LOLOLOLOLOLOL. That's what I was doing. And that song you were talking about with Scarface and Jada, it's called WW III; Jada has the best verse. What RR anthem were you speaking of; was it the remix? I ask because that's one of my faves. I think that DMX shows his best skills with his verse. Oh yeah, I'm not a beat man but it got one of the hottest beats. Qool

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

I would have said the remix if they made that into a video because that shit was hot. yeah Timbaland is from the south(According to Willis) but ive yet to see him do beats for any southern rapper besides bubba sparxxx, i could be wrong, i havent bought a southern cd since scarface and early cashmoney(i musta have smoked a fuckin pound that day lol)

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Well since eveyone is bashing the South's choruses you cant forget the infamous "North Carolina come on and raise up, take ya shirt off, twist it around ya head, spin it like a hellacopter......LOL QUEER AZZ SOUTH DUNS. Wut da deal Big J, Lox, and Q. Keep this south bashing going. WHAT!!!!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.


-- DameCrow (dalyracist@hotmail.com), November 30, 2001.

Give me a minute, ok I'm ready....Steph, you need to learn to relax honey. Nobody is sending anybody to do anything, ok? if you are 16 then I got 10 years on you with a hell of a lot more experience than you, which hopefully you will gain as you get older. That means that you will understand what I say as you develope mentally, which is a natural process, for all of us. Now go to your third perioid class and learn some social studies. pick up a book,instead of watching MTV..Big J, I know you know what I am talking about so I will not bother with your stupidity any further, But I do have to say the 'Willis' name U gave Hillis had me rolling...By the way who is this character 'Steve'???... Who were the top 10 MC's named? somebody tell me??...HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE, PATRIA o MUERTE...Manny Guevara.....The 'Worst' U suck, I feel it is my duty to tell U that..MG

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

Well like i said before im done with manny and im not 16. who elseh as heard the dumbass song from juveniile?

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

GOD DAMNIT my list came out in paragraph form shit.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

Hey best, read your message on september the 18th

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 01, 2001.

first of all yall all sound like yall just started listening to rap in 97, Jay is nice but if your a real hip hop head you would know he's always admired esco that's why he spit that line: who's the best emcees biggie jay-z and nas on "where i'm from" he hating cause just as nas said they never worked together. And he knows nas is the illest out and if you want to be the illest who do you go after? but ghostface came at jay on a joint that features raekwon that has a sample of Barry White on it. I bet Jay aint gone answer cause what he gone say shit all of ghost solo projects been classic so that aint nothing new to him. bottom line jay aint deep enough for esco, yalls dont understand esco can do illmatic over if he wanted to notice i said if he wanted to he doesnt fucking want t oidiot

-- e.davis (esco601@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

first of all yall all sound like yall just started listening to rap in 97, Jay is nice but if your a real hip hop head you would know he's always admired esco that's why he spit that line: who's the best emcees biggie jay-z and nas on "where i'm from" he hating cause just as nas said they never worked together. And he knows nas is the illest out and if you want to be the illest who do you go after? but ghostface came at jay on a joint that features raekwon that has a sample of Barry White on it. I bet Jay aint gone answer cause what he gone say shit all of ghost solo projects been classic so that aint nothing new to him. bottom line jay aint deep enough for esco, yalls dont understand esco can do illmatic over if he wanted to notice i said if he wanted to he doesnt fucking want t oidiot

-- e.davis (esco601@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

first of all yall all sound like yall just started listening to rap in 97, Jay is nice but if your a real hip hop head you would know he's always admired esco that's why he spit that line: who's the best emcees biggie jay-z and nas on "where i'm from" he hating cause just as nas said they never worked together. And he knows nas is the illest out and if you want to be the illest who do you go after? but ghostface came at jay on a joint that features raekwon that has a sample of Barry White on it. I bet Jay aint gone answer cause what he gone say shit all of ghost solo projects been classic so that aint nothing new to him. bottom line jay aint deep enough for esco, yalls dont understand esco can do illmatic over if he wanted to notice i said if he wanted to he doesnt fucking want to you idiots jay know hiself he aint he hoping that this little setup will make all you not so on point fans give him the edge thats just like fighting somebody you know cant beat you gone blab your mouth more so people will give you the edge before the bout even really takes place yall dont know shit though so i forgive yall.

-- e.davis (esco601@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Big J, that message wasn't posted by me. It is a long story, but I'll explain......That was the beginning of the fall semester and my peeps Marcus-"The Best Impersonator" was on this website using my identity dun (We have a Computer Graphics course together). He and I always argue about who is nicer between Nas and Pac, and that kid for some reason is stuck on Suge Knight's wack azz. Yo and in plus come on dun that doesn't even sound like me. I didn't even get introduced to this site until like mid October. Dude was like there is a website where duns can post their spits and opinions on their fav emcees and he showed this site. That's the true testiment on that one dun.1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Nas really dismantles Jay-Z on Stillmatic. I think he must have been saving up for this one because it hurts. Sean Carter probably cried after hearing it. That's so terrible. Download the track--it's called "Ether." I guess Nas came to prove his lyrical prowess on this next album because he shines on all the tracks I have heard.

-- Andrew R (ricketts83@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Yo Nas is the hottest, go to toogangsta.net and check out his new song dissing Jay-z, this shit is hott. I'm telling you Nas rips Jay- z, Jay-z lost every respect that I had for him, he lost his throne or whatever he think that he had. Trust me Nas is back, I'm telling you, He's off the hook in this song, Nasty is Back fellas, check it out holla

-- michael johnson (vabachelor2001@yahoo.com), December 02, 2001.

Here it is duns!! The REAL lyrics from Nas's diss to Gay Z called "Ether". He kills dude...LOL

....gun shots "Fuck Jay Z" (2 Pac sample with slow pitch) Nas- whassup niggaz? Aiyo, I know you aint talk about me dog.....you? What?! "Fuck Jay Z" Nas- You been on my dick, you love my style nigga...uh...uh

Hook: Fuck with your soul like ether Teach you the king, you know you not God son across the belly, I prove you lost already ("I WILL NOT LOSE" Jay Z sample in background)

Verse 1 Brace yourself for the main event, yall impatiently waiting Just like an AIDS test, not positive, whos the best? Pac, Nas, and Big Aint no rest east, west, north, south, "flossed out" grieving/greedy? I embrace yall with naplam, blows up, no guts left, chest, face gone How can I be garbage? Semi-autos at your partners cognisance Burner at the side of your dome, come outta my throne I got this, locked since, Nas won/one, I am the truest, name a rapper that I aint influence// Gave yall chapters, but now I keep my eyes on the "Judas"// With Hawaiin Sophi Fame kept my name in his music.....Check it


Verse 2 Fucked over left over for dead, dissed then forgotten Luck ran out, they hoped I'd be gone, stiff and rotten Yall just pissed on me, laugh behind my back, but not in my face, yall some "well wishers" Friendly acting, envy hiding snakes Put your hands out for my money, man, how much can I take? When these streets keep calling..... Heard it when I was sleep, that this Gay Z and Cock a Fella records wanted beef Started cocking up my weapons, slowsly loading up this ammo To explode it on the "camel", and his soldiers I can handle question for this dolo, and his manuscript, shit sound stupid When KRS already made an album called Blueprint First, Biggie's your man, then you got the nerve to say you better than B.I.G. Dick-sucker lips, why don't you let the late great veteran live

Hook.... Nas- The king is back, where my crown at? Ill Will rest in peace, question to "Stewart" niggaz

Verse 3 (The Killa) Yall niggaz deal with emotions like bitches What's sad is, I love you cause you're my brother, you traded your soul for "riches" "My Child", I watch you grow up to be famous And now I smile like a proud dad, watching his only son that made it You seem to be only concerned with dissing women Were you abused as a child? Scared to smile the called you ugly? Well life is harsh, hug me, don't reject me (LOL) Or make records to disrespect me blatant or indirectly In "88" you was getting chased through your building Calling my crib, and I aint even give you my number All I did was give you a style to run with Smiling in my face, glad to break bread with God Wearing "Jaz's" chain, no tours, no cash, no cars, no jail bond or bars Jigga, no pies, no cake Just Hawaiin shirts hanging with "little chase" You a fan, a phony, a fake, a pussy, a "Stan" Ill still whip your ass, you 36 in a karate class You tae bo ho, trying to work it out, your trying to get "brolic"? ask me if I'm trying to kick knowledge...... nah I'm trying to kick this shit you need to learn though That ether, the shit that make your soul burn slow Is he "Dame" diddy, "Dame" daddy, or "Dame" dummy? Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy "Rockefeller" had it, AIDS, that was the end of his chapter And that's the guy yall chose to name your company after Put it together, I rock hoes, yall rock "fellas" And now you trying to take my spot "fellas" Feel these hot rocks, "fellas", put you in a dry spot, "fellas", I pine box with nine shots from my gloc, "fellas" Foxy got you hot, cause you kept ya face in her puss "damn, damn, damn, damn" What you think you getting "Girls, Girls, Girls" now cause of your looks Negro please, you no mustache having, with whiskers like a rat Compard to Beans, you wack, and your man stabbed "Un", and made you take the blame You ass went from Jaz, to hangin' with Kane, to Irv, to B.I.G. And Eminem murdered you on your own shit QUEENS niggaz run you, ask Russell Simmons Huh R.O.C. get gunned up and clapped quick J.J. Evans get gunned up and clapped quick Your whole record label get gunned up and clapped quick Shawn Carter to Jay Z, damn you on "Jaz" dick Your little shorties get gunned down and clapped quick HOw much of Biggie's rhymes gone come out your fat lips Wanted to be on every last one of my CLASSICS You "pop" shit , apologize nigga, just ask "KISS"(Don't try to apologize on ya two way....sympathy don't amuse me...."Kiss the game goodbye")


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Ah thats good to hear fellas.

Now back to the south. i have lost whatever respect i had for bubba sparxxx. after seeing his terrible performance(one of the funniest things ive ever seen) on saturday night live(i know it wasnt a big deal to like try your best on there but still). i think all dirty south rappers cant put on good concerts. for one, bubba didnt even know the words to the second song he did. two(funny as hell) he tried to take his jacket off but the idiot forgot he had a damn mic in his hands lol so he spent almost the whole time with half his jacket off and finaly he got it off like at the end of the song. and he didnt even do the whole ugly song and his two "back up rappers" rapped more than him.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

OH HELL YEAH MOTHER FUCKAS!!!! yo thanks best i needed to proof of how good these songs will be and i got it. i bet Gayz shit in his pants when he heard that.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Lyrics to "Ether" Everyone cop the album on the 18th, it's a classic....BELIVE WHAT I AM TELLING YOU


┬“Fuck Jay-Z!┬”


What┬’s up, niggas?

Aiyyo, I know you ain┬’t talking about me, dawg, you? What?

┬“Fuck Jay-Z!┬”

You been on my dick nigga, you love my style, nigga

┬“Fuck Jay-Z!┬”

God Son across the belly, I prove you lost already

Brace yourself for the main event, y┬’all impatiently wait

Not positive, who┬’s the best? Pac, Nas and Big

Ain┬’t no best, East West, North, South, flossed out

Greedy, I embrace y┬’all with napalm

Blown up, no guts, left chest, face gone

How can I be garbage? Semi-autos at your cartilage

Burner at the side of your dome, come out of my throne

I got this locked since 9-1, I am the truest

Name a rapper that I ain't influenced

Gave y'all chapters, but now I keep my eyes on the Judas

With Hawaiian Sophie fame, kept my name in his music, check it

┬“I┬” Fuck with ya stolen ether

┬“WILL┬” teach you the king, I know you

┬“NOT┬” God Son across the belly

┬“LOSE┬” I prove you lost already

Aiyyo, pass me the weed, pour my ashes out on these niggas man

Aiyyo, you faggots kneel and kiss the muthafuckin ring

┬“I┬” Fuck with ya stolen ether

┬“WILL┬” teach you the king, I know you

┬“NOT┬” God Son across the belly

┬“LOSE┬” I prove you lost already

Fucked over, left for dead, dissed and forgotten

Luck ran out, they hoped that I'd be gone, stiff and rotten

Y'all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave (uh)

Talk about me, laugh behind my back, but in my face

Y'all some well wishers, friendly-acting, envy-hiding snakes

Put your hands out for my money, man how much can I take?

When the streets keep calling, heard it when I was sleep

That this Gay-Z and Cock-A-Fella Records wanted beef

Started cocking up my weapons, slowly loading up this ammo

To explode it on a camel, and his soldiers I can handle

For dolo, and his manuscript, shit sound stupid

When KRS already made an album called Blueprint

First, Biggie's your man, then you got the nerve to say that you better than Big

Dick sucking lips, won't you let the late, great veteran live?


God Son across the belly

I proved you lost already

Uh, the king is back, where my thugs at?

Ill Will, rest in peace, let's do it, niggas

┬“I┬” Fuck with ya stolen ether

┬“WILL┬” teach you the king, I know you

┬“NOT┬” God Son across the belly

┬“LOSE┬” I prove you lost already

Y'all niggas deal with emotions like bitches

What's sad is I love you cuz you're my brother, you traded your soul for riches

My child, I've watched you grow up to be famous

And now I smile like a proud dad, watching his son that made it

You seem only to be concerned with dissing women

Were you abused as a child? Scared to smile, they call you ugly

Well, life is harsh, hug me, don't reject me

Or make records that disrespect me, blatant or indirectly

In '88, you was gettin chased to your building

Callin my crib, and I ain't even give you my numbers

All I did was give you a style for you to run with

Smiling in my face, glad to break bread with the god

Wearing Jaz chain, no Tecs, no cash, no cars

No jail bars, Jigga, no pies, no cake

Just Hawaiian shirts, hanging with little Chase (?)

You a fan, a phony, a fake, a pussy, a Stan

I┬’ll deal with your ass, you 36 in a karate class?

You Tae Bo ho, trying to work it out

You tried to get brolic (?), ask me if I┬’m trying to kick knowledge

Naw, I┬’m trying to kick this shit you need to learn, though

The ether, the shit that make your soul burn slow

Is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy or Dame Dummy?

Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he┬’s Puffy (ewww)

Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter

And that┬’s the guy y┬’all chose to name your company after?

Put it together: I rock hoes, y┬’all rock fellas

And now y┬’all trying to take my spot, fellas?

Feel these hot rocks, fellas, put you in a dry spot, fellas

In a pine box with nine shots from my glock, fellas

Foxy got you hot cuz you kept ya face in her puss (girls, girls, girls)

What you think, you getting girls now cuz of ya looks?

Negro, please! You no moustache-having

With whiskers like a rat, compared to Beans, you wack

And your man stabbed Un and made you take the blame

You ass, went from Jaz to hanging with caine to herbs

To Big and Eminem murdered you on your own shit

You a dick-riding faggot, you love the attention

Queens niggas run you, ask Russell Simmons

R-O-C, they gunned up and clapped quick

Jay Jay Evans get gunned up and clapped quick

Your whole damn record label, gunned up and clapped quick

Shawn Carter to Jay-Z, damn you on Jaz dick

Saw little shorties getting gunned up and clapped quick

How much of Biggie┬’s rhymes is gonna come out ya fat lip?

Wanted to be on every last one of my classics

You pop shit, apologize, nigga just ask Kiss

-- enigmatic (berrmarj18@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

Ok enigmatic, what the hell was that.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 02, 2001.

It is confusing to tell by some of the posts just how good "Ether" is. You have to hear the song to truly appreciate how terrific Nas sounds. He brings light to a few solid themes. First, Sean Carter has always (always) jocked Nas, from sampling his voice, to dropping his name on every other album. He even started a little affair with Nas' baby mother to cause controversy. That's a little scary to me. Second, Sean claims to have so much respect for BIG, mentioning him (and his lyrics) in so many songs, but then makes the contention that he might be better. What's the point? If fans judge you to be better, take the praise, if not, shut your mouth. New York rappers have not really taken well to "young" Hovah ever since he started adding new self-titles every album, namely the greatest. It's bad enough that he might be gay; he also seems to lack respect for everyone else. I think Sean has some serious soul-searching to do before he blurts out another claim like that.

-- Andrew Ricketts (ricketts83@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Y'all sound like yous never heard the Takeover! Damn. One damn verse from that is better than the whole of that Ether track. Y'all are only reppin it cos its new.

"Dont throw rocks at the thrown"

Im out. I gots to think of my top 25 tracks. If you lucky, Nas might make it into the top 20. HAHA!

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 03, 2001.

damn you can even mention takeover in comparison to ether.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

I can't seem 2 find the mp3 for Ether! Theres like everything else from Stillmatic but that. Well I'll keep trying. But shit Nas gets pretty Nasty on it from the lyrics I've read. I find it kinda stupid tho that hes trying so hard that he had 2 use a whole damn track on his album 2 get back at Jay when Jay did just as good with one verse. The sampling 2pac tho wuz a cool idea.
Every says so much shit about Jay-Z's looks tho yo its so gay. But as the only girl posting on this thread I feel I should give my opinion on it hahha. So hes not all that hot or anything but hes got this sexy thing about him i dunno. Nas is better looking than him tho, definately.

Manny, u really need 2 brush up on ure english yo and ure so random with ure "comebacks". I'm sure I understand a lot more than u, at least I can understand the language everyones talkin in on here. Whatever I don't wanna bother with u.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

A si, Manny yo no tengo MTV aqui, nice try tho ahaha.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Let's be real here. Before you say which is better, try to see if you can just take the songs for what they are. That means, don't look at it like Jay made it and don't look at it like Nas made it. Just read the lyrics or listen to both songs. Can anyone honestly say "Takeover" is better? Look at what Jig says. 1st of all, he rhymes, lame with frame and brain and all of that... so that is just basic rhyming. Nothing deep. Then when he disses Nas, he is still on his sac. Listen close "Had a spark when you started...," and "the other was Illmatic, that's a 1 hot album every 10 year average" and "You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song. (By the way he stole that line from Pac; a song where Pac dissed Jay and Jay turns around and uses it). If you gonna diss, diss but don't be telling a man how great he is at the same time. And never ever did I say Jay lacks skills on the mic, I just said Nas is wayyy deeper. Now I'm saying that maybe Jay isn't a battle rapper, I mean the proof is right there. And as far as Nas giving Jay an entire song, so what? Easy gave Dre and Snoop a full song, Pac gave Biggie many, Luke gave Dre a full song. Besides, Nas mentions the Roc, Beans, etc. Let me get back to my point. Nas' "ether" is more than the basic "I hit your girl (which Jay also stole from Pac) and "Your style is garbage." Come on that can apply to anybody, but Nas makes a point about Roc-a-fella, says how Jay has always gave him shout outs, even talks about how Dash is acting like Puff. (Am I the only one who saw Dash in that Izzo video and was reminded of Puff?)(And am I the only one who said Dash was a crybaby in that hard-knock-life tour movie?) And I don't know if all of Nas' rap is true, but those points I just mentioned... we all know that they are true. So in conclusion, study both songs and tell me if Jay's is really better. On another note, I've seen a coulpe of different verses from Nas to Jay and people are saying they are called "ether." But they can't all be called that. Does anybody know the names of the other songs? If so let me know. I think two of them are already posted on here. Holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Yo what up. Been away awhile on vacation but now the issue is "ether" vs "takeover"? Ether is way better than takeover, period. dont believe me, MP3 it or what until Stillmatic comes out, but that song alone doesnt even skid the surface of Nas's true, unrivaled lyrical abitlty on the album. oh by the way, Nas did say a while back that he will never make an illmatic album, cuz he dont want to,but stillmatic is the closest. Life's a bitch,verbal intercouse (raekwon),live at the BBQ, eye for an eye (from infamous mobb deep) the world is yours, it aint hard to tell, NY state of mind, NY state of mind 2,i gave you power, live nigga rap, nas is like, u can hate me now, ether. what song of jay-z's can compare to those?? i say none. jay-z is wittier and more arrogant (in a good way), but nas is deeper and makes more sense, but their flow and wordplay are about the same, just that nas more subject matter. but jayz, in a business sense knew better than anyone that startin a beef with another king of NY after producing platinum sales off his last album would boost sales for him, it might even made nas bring out the best in him in coming out with a phat album in return (stillmatic is hot as far as all the songs i heard so far),and boost nas's sales too. but on a personal level, he repped nas on almost every album and then gets mad because nas never came to him to do a song with him? Now that's cold on jay-z's part.Anyway, shout outs to 3:16, Hillis , qoolout, Big J, LOX(turn the fuckin beat up), Manny,stay real yo, Bama, i respect your views too dog. yo Best that flow was hot, but i got more where that came from. this site is the illest. Shaheed da poster boy (from 106 and park) got a song out wit BBD. its a good song for the clubs but wait till the grimey shit come out. alot of people been at Connecticut the past 2 months (Jadakiss, Redman, Bad boys had a party this weekend, Mobb deep , fabulous,capone and noreaga the 15th of Dec,just to name a few). its nice to see that catz finally recognize that there is life in connecticut (Raekwon gave us a shout out in "incarcerated scarfaces" with the line "word up/quick ta set it/dont let it/real niggas take shots/peace Connecticut").And look out for Ali Vegas this cat is young but he has skills. Beanie ripped jada critically(sorry LOX u know i got love 4 jada but beanie ripped him in philly cuz jada dissed him in front of all beanie's fans at a recent concert), so beanie came out from nowhere and jumped on stage and said something like"i'm thinkin about fuckin his moms and makin him watch/i'm takin his time and takin his watch/i'm takin his grime putting 5 8's on his block/and kept goin on and on. go to allhiphop.com for more news its on "beanie/jada beef flares up in philly. anyway i'm out One

-- J_dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 03, 2001.

Ahhh... now we gettin' somewhere. Takeover vs Ether. My first point on the subject has got to be the lyrics. I think its Q who said Nas' are more deep, but on a diss track do y'all really need to be that deep (point taken though dun). Its just a diss, y'all dont need to make people think about it none. You just got to make 'em say "DAMN, he hust ripped that boy!" As with "I dont care if you Mobb Deep, I hold triggers to crews/you little fuck, I got money stacks bigger than you". I still aint heard the beat on Ether, but the one on Takeover is tight.

Last thing, why did Nas (on "We will survive" from I am...) shout out Pac by saying "Can't believe I heard my name on "the realest shit you ever wrote". Listen to "the realist shit I ever wrote". Thats a straight diss. Maybe I just dont get it. Holla back on this one.

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 03, 2001.


-- j_dolo (mailto:j%20_dolo@nvctc.com), December 03, 2001.

Amazingly i agree with 3:16. i dont think ether by Nas made me think any and if it did it made me think of how wack Gayz and Cock-a-fella are.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

How could duns say that "Ether" doesn't make you think. Nas doesn't make any direct statements about Jay Z, he laces them in a way to make you think. Ex) How Sean Carter stole his name "Jay Z" from a duke named Jaz. How he talks about "running" the rap game, but the only thing he is "running" with is other niggaz styles (B.I.G. and Nas). Also, dun he talks about how Jay Z was obsessed with him and wanted to be on all of his "classics". Believe it or not Jay Z wanted to be in the Firm, but Nas rejected his deposit. Yo if yall dudes aint heard the song yet, you need to hear it and because whether it makes you think or not it DESTROYS Jay Z. Nas went as far as taking a Jay Z trademark and using a sample of Pac in the diss.

Oh yeah my opinion of Stillmatic from the tracks I heard is definitely a 5 mic classic, but niggaz know the Source will hate...."Ether"-5 mics, "One Mic"-5 mics, "Got Yourself A Gun"-4.5 mics, "Rule"-5 mics, "Smokin"-4 mics, "You're The Man"-5 mics

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Best i agree wit u 100% because all those songs that u just mentioned are phat as hell and are way better than H to the izzO, M to the izzO, way better than girls,girls, and takeover.and the Source will hate because the source likes jay-z better so nas isnt gonna get his full props. "Ether" is as deadly as the actual gas and it was an appropiate title to a song that was literally killin Jay-z. Jay-z was the one that said "Dont throw rocks at the thrown", but while jay-z started throwing salt at the throw, nas threw big ass boulders at jay- z. Stillmatic is ill, and fuck the source because half the time they dont be knowing what they be talkin about anymore. u want the real get XXL. i'm out one

-- J_dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 03, 2001.

i meant to say "dont throw rocks at the throne", and while jay threw salt at the throne, nas threw big ass boulders at jay. one

-- j_dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 03, 2001.

Yo. I must say the lyrics to that Nas cut is pretty tight. I'm looking forward to hearing it. I'm feelin' ya J Dolo. Keep droppin' that good shit. How 'bout dem Vols Hillis? Your boyz is smellin' roses nigga. Hey on a serious tip, I know a lot of y'all ain't down wit da dirty south shit and that's cool. But dis heah is my home y'all and I'll keep reppin it for life. Anyway, I still got love for all y'all yankee ass muthafuckas though, even though y'all be bustin' on my shit. Keep it thoro niggas!

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 03, 2001.

What up Bama? The love goes both ways dogg. So what most Southern rappers can't actually rap? I guess somebody likes it, right? So y'all keep doing what y'all doing. 3:16, no, a diss doesn't need to make you think, but a regular song doesn't NEED to make you think either. That's what a lot of us like about Nas. Like 90% of his joints gonna have you focusing in on what he's spitin'. Even some of his less that good songs will take you deep. You said that doesn't do it for you; I understand. But all that "I'll shoot you, blah blah, blah," dissin' is getting played o-u-t. My man Nas is talking about Rockefeller having AIDS and some more stuff. Oh yeah, Best broke down some more points for y'all on his last post. And I don't think you answered the question. Do you really believe that Jay's diss is better? And I wasn't talking about the part about Mobb Deep, just the part about Nas, but include that if you want. I still say Nas got the W for right now. What up j dolo?

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

I suppose your right Best. I think i said it didnt make me think much cause it didnt, all the words he said went straight through me and i understood every single lyric without having deciepher them. not taking away from anyone who did have to think about what the lyrics ment im saying it comes kinda natural to me since i read alot of books and have been listening to rap since i was 4.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

i must adress that punk ass hillis again. i think on the 25th this dumbass said that you couldnt tell ny rappers apart, pure follishness. nas sounds nothing like havoc, prodigy sounds nothing like noyd, capone sounds nothing like rakim, lil kim doesnt sound like ja rule(lol). now three6 mafia sounds like everyone from the south lol.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

Hey Big J, I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not saying that "Ether" is the type of joint you have to rewind and listen to over and over before you get it. I'm saying it's not the average "I'ma kill you, fool," type of diss. He put some tight stuff together and you (Big J) got it, but you still had to think about it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd guess you thought about it, but you just understood it quick. That doesn't mean that you didn't have to think about it; you just processed it real quick. Let me know what you THINK. Get it? Ha Ha. But let me know how you feel. Either way you still my dogg. Holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 03, 2001.

R.I.P.- George Harrison, a great Beatle indeed. HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE...MG.

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

R.I.P.- George Harrison, a great Beatle indeed. HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE..MG-"Drink To Me"

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Seems to me Hillis or Willis whatever his name is has some serious homosexual issues with wanting people to lick his balls. You need to get some facts and a damn speak and spell before you call someone ignorant. Guys like you make the south look bad. Don't take my words out of context. Get Pac's dick outcha mowf before you reply to me. You probably didn't start listening to hip hop until Pac. Pac was an actor, evidence was how inconsistent he was...answer this. If Pac did so much dirt when did he have time to do it? The cat has a new track like every week. Have you ever been in a studio. It takes at least 2 hours to do a track. Pac's got 4 albums to his credit while alive and a whole slew after his death. When did he record all this?? C'mon now open ya eyes, half the niggas in the game actin to sell records. Pac said it himself in an interview. "I have power, whatever I say on record little white kids will go do it and their parents can't stop them." Again Pac was good but not the best. Talk about a cat being over-rated. Was 2Pacalyse Now better than say Criminal Minded or Paid In full Hell No!!! Neither was makaveli...That shit was just plain garbage other than hit'em up. His Best shit in my opinion was Strictly For My Niggas. Truthfully Pac wouldn't have gotten all that attention if it weren't for Dan Quayle pullin 2Pacalypse Now from the stores. You always get props once you die look at Big L. Y'all wanna immortalize this guy who was down right confused and contradictory (Just like Nas who doesn't know whether he wants to be in Epyptology, Muslim or A seer Nastradamus). One record Pac screamin Keep Ya Head Up then on the next track he tearing down the same people. In the words of Chino XL "Where you from anyway LA, Oakland...Hoboken." Pac Jumped to where ever he was excepted. No consistency....he was just sellin records. They guy went to a school for the arts with Jada Pinkett (Doin a video singing Parents Just Don't Understand.) Get the hell outta here....thug...in my opinion he just as fake as Prodigy. Now when the word Best comes out your mouth for a lyricist, Rakim or KRS should be right behind it. Yes Rakim last albums were not tight on production but he is still on point lyrically. And don't even say anything about KRS, Pac respected him. So you can put his dick back in a mowf now. Pac said what people wanted to hear. And he baited you in stupid.


-- R-Son (Lionpsyche@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

A who in the hell is dun, R-Son. Dun come on the site changing the whole subject. Wo this is a Nas vs. Jay Z site, if you HATE 2 Pac so much then go to a site featuring Tupac vs. his rivals (which were many). In my opinion 2 Pac is the greatest rapper of all time, but not the greatest lyricists (Rass Kass said it). Oh and the thug shyt he portrayed was half true and half false. You was probably one of those cats who celebrated after Pac's death......FAGGOT AZZ DUDE......NOW YOU CAN LEAVE PEACEFULLY

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

R-Son, I'm not even gonna come at you like I want to. But I gotta say, that I feel Pac, over all was the best. Thug? Who cares? If he was or he wasn't you're acting like he's the only one ever to say he was a thug. 90% of today's rappers claim to be thugs. (Pac started that) What you got to say about them. You say they are acting to sell records. Yes, they suppose to sell records. Even somebody like Puff is acting. You think he wears those shiny suits when he's at home chillin'? And KRS? I'm not saying the man didn't do a lot for rap, but come on. I know you don't believe he could see Pac on the mic. Having tight lyrics is nice, but you need more than that, otherwise you could give Maya Anglou the mic and let her flow. And Chino XL? You quoting him? I'ma leave that one alone. And the fact that he went to school....Does that make him less of a rapper in your eyes? Some of us can't let Pac go because he was on top when he died. He's been dead for years and is still putting out stuff that is better than the norm (Until the End of Time). Now, the rappers that you mentioned, they weren't on top when they left, so you need to go ahead and leave them out of the convo when speaking of Pac.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

R-son...how could you say Pac and Prodigy are fake? i didnt agree with the West vs Easy bullshit but hes still imo, the second best rapper of all time. Youngin dont come up in here dissin people trying to make a name for yourself, ill destroy you like i did Willis, so watch your mouth.

And everyone, post your top 25 videos.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Yo Q, until i have actually heard Ether, I cant really comment about wether or not its better than Takeover or not. I know its using a pac sample when pac used to diss Nas. But the lyrics aint got too much between them. Thing is, Jay is tellin' it like it is. "Went from Nasty Nas, to Esco's trash/had a spark when you started, but now you just garbage/fell from top ten to not mentioned at all/til your body guards Oochie Wally verse better than y'alls". Think about it, its true. When were peeps talkin bout Nas before the Jay beef. If you want deep lyrics, listen to the Roots.

I'ma come back later, I gots to go to the bar.

"When you come sloppy, fuck is y'all tryin to do?/Y'all into, some wack shit, and ain't sayin nuttin new" - Dice Raw

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 04, 2001.

When I want something deep, 316, I throw in Pac, but we ain't talking about him, we dealing with Nas and Jay. And of the two Nas has Jay in depth. Also, Jay gotta learn how not to compliment the man he's dissin'. Big J, who has that number 1 spot in your book? Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Hey it looks you guys know what you're talkin about - help me out on A href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl? msg_id=007GQy">who's got the best freestyle.

I've got a question for you (if you know) - since this question's about throwdowns in general, is there anyting between Li'l Jon and Outkast? Cause on Stankonia Outkast don't have too many nice things to say about the man behind "Swing My Way"..

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Oh yeah Big J, that last post..."Don't come in here trying to make a name for yourself by dissin people," Once again you had me rolling, dogg. And "I'll destroy you." Now I'm not tryin to throw fuel to a fire, but as Jay- Z says, "Love your point of view cause you hold no punches." I just had to give you a shout out on that.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

3:16, just like "Stone Cold" going to a bar....LOL What don't you understand about "Ether", are you mad at Nas because he exposed Jay Z for what he is....a dickryding, style bitin', name takin', pussy eatin', camel lookin', hook takin', runnin' from real thugs FAGGOT....LOL. Nas also "got to the point" with this dis, but he did a little more and exposed Jay Z with facts and Jay Z knows this. What did Nas say "you sold your soul for riches"....that is the truth and even you know it. Just face it you doubted Nasty and now he is back with a HUGE impact. You praised "Takeover" like it was going to destroy Nas's career.....LOL, but it did nothing but give leeway to in my opinion the hardest diss ever next to "Hit Em Up". Face it, it's Nas's turn to shine...even though he didn't make this album for sales. He made this album to show everyone that he is "Still illmatic", to bring substance to today's watered down hip hop (all this talking about ice, cars, and an alias shyt). Oh yeah back to the "sale your soul for riches" thing Jay Z is at it again, trying to ruin Nas by putting out an MTV Unplugged album on guess the date.....Dec. 18th!! Damn dun is tryin to hard, he needs to relieve some of his obsession of Nas. FUCKIN FAGGOT

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

sorry, here's that link again: Who's Got the Best Freestyle?

hey Best, CHILL with that "faggot" shit, okay?

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Tracer Hand and you are saying what dun? Are you.....never mind I will respect you wishes!?

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Jesus why won't this link work?? The Best Freestyler Around. Hokay. Best, no I'm not but whatever. I've got friends who are, friends who aren't - I'll speak for them, whatever, you know what I'm saying? I want everybody to feel welcome that's all. Anyways back to the THING! Best I can't wait to hear the new Nas. I hope it's as good as you say.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Hey Lox we did it to Testa-nerdy in the Sugar Bowl and we'll do it again. MY BLOOD RUNS DEEP ARNJ.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Damn best! You sound kinda pissed off! Is it cos you too young to go to bars yet? Neppure non sapete perchŔ siete qui ragazzo grazioso! Are you pissed cos you a 36 year old virgin, sat at your old Apple Mac, wearin a pair of fat rimmed $2 glasses reading from the "Rap for the deaf handbook", huh, am I right? Did I say I dont understand Ether? And the next thing, why do you think hes callin his new album "stillmatic" even after he said he would never make another Illmatic, huh? (all hes done is add the st). In my opinion he just going to try and ride the critical acclaim he copped off his debut, and holla "Nas is back" a lot. Faggot maledetto, voi che baciate l'asino del NAS! Damn! bet y'all never thought I was bilingual did you?

On a lighter note fellas, can anyone tell me about the "AZ runnin off a stage when somebody threw a bottle" incident? Holla back

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 04, 2001.

Yo Best! did you not just talk about watered down rap? I just read your dumbass post again, I qoute... "to bring substance to today's watered down hip hop (all this talking about ice, cars, and an alias shyt)" First off, ice and cars, hmmm... "money money money, my bitch is my money, money you my honey...." etc. Followed by "alias shyt" (you spellin' shit wrong kid) "Nasty Nas, to Esco, to Escobar, now he is Nastradamus". Are you saying that the man who you want to marry is "watered down shyt" hmmm...

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 04, 2001.

heh Q, my favorite of all time and always will be is The Notorious, Glorious, B.I.G. i dont give a damn if some thought Born Again sucked because to me, anything he has is pure fuckin gold. and what i like more about biggie is he wasnt all that serious all the time like pac seemed to be(not saying theres anything wrong with being serious most of the time). id say his best songs to me was "Notorius Thugs", "Skys The Limit" "I really want to show you" and "Big Poppa". he also never forgot where he came from, he did shows and underground shows in brooklyn and even opened soul food restraunt there.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Yo. Biggie was definitely among the greatest of all time. I think Big was at his best when he was tellin' tales. Therefore my favorite Biggie cuts include "I Got A Story To Tell" (features some of the most classic lines ever), "Niggaz Bleed" and "The Warning". Biggie spat tales in such a vivid manner that you could almost see the shit unfolding in front of your eyes. No matter what the theme, Big always seemed to sprinkle his shit with a touch of humor and wit. Now Big was definitely one of them catz that could make niggaz laugh, think AND bounce. That's one up-north nigga that gets hella love down heah in da dirty.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 04, 2001.

Yo dun I am tired of the Nas haters. Niggaz need to go to hiphopgame.com, go to audios listen to Ether and hear the nigga lyrically destroy Jay Z. If duns is too slow listen to the shyt again and hear what he says cause he kills dude. This means you "Steve Austin"!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Oh my fault "Steve Austin" I didn't see your first post. Actually dun, I am a second semester junior at Southern University an HBCU, majoring in Electrical Engineering (only the tender age of 20). Oh and I don't know spanish, so whatever you said is irrelevent to me (hope you didn't learn that to pull chicks.....LMAO). And if you are so concerned about what I am wearing?....FAGGOT AZZ DUDE try Ice History (Speedy Gonzales sweater) and Ice burg Jeans with the Forrest Green Tims. Oh I am sorry, you can't afford that shyt....LOL. And no I don't go to bars.....LOL I don't have time to you know with engineering an all. Got to study this shyt so I can be a six figure dun in the future. You know in the future I might higher you so you can be my "electrician"!!! CRAB AZZ NIGGA.....LOL

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Best, if thats true about that jay-z's comin out wit MTV unplugged on Dec 18 (Stillmatic album same day),jay-z is really tryin to take it to nas, tryin to take that nigga's paper,and is threatened by Nas whenever his arrogant ass wants to believe it or not.No matter what jay-z does, no one will ever forget the diss, I dont even think Nas dissed him, i think he spoke the truth, that Jay-z was on his dick for years.Before anyone goes crazy i'm not sayin that jay-z sucks, for he is a gifted lyricist, but comparing takeover to ether is like comparing a 2001 Ford Focus to a 2002 lamborgini diablo. What up Qoolout?! Not to change the subject but just because prodigy went to a dance school doesnt mean that he wasnt thoro; he was just a gifted kid for someone his age (i'm sure everyone in this site did something that they probably is too embarassed to say online,so ima start.)Even though i'm heavily hiphop, i like and respect all styles of music (even Nsync . if you want to impress a chick, i'm tellin ya, sing any song from Nsync.)I can play the violin, the guitar,the banjo and the piano(i'm a bit rusty on it though),and i can do sculptures, but all that dont mean that i'm soft, it just means that i was better at some things than most people in my old hood was,and the same for prodigy (that's why his name is prodigy, the definition of the word "prodigy" means "a highly talented child or youth") but now back to nas vs jay- z, on the business sense, jay-z knows what he is tryin to do,but in the end, true hip hop fans know that nas can bring it when he really wants to, and lyrically is just as good if not better than jay-z. Sillmatic, from all the songs i heard so far, deserve a 5 mic rating from the source, but you know thats not happenin' Q, best, big j, 3:16, LOX, Holla at ya boy! One

-- J_dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 04, 2001.

Oh yeah, my top ten greatest mc's of all time(dead or alive, in no particular order, and solo, not as a group) 1. Biggie (ill flow, charisma, killa delivery) 2. Nas (poet, vivid pictures through words,story teller) 3. KRS One (the ill freestyler, political as shit) 4. Rakim (the Allah of Rhyme) 5. LL Cool J (15+ years,longitivity's da key, fellas, more album sales than all) 6. Jay-z (arrogant, genius wordplay, wittier than the rest) 7. Scarface (a lyrical genius from Houston, TX) 8. Redman (brashwent atleast gold on every album,) 9. DMX (dark telltales, rough style, platinum plus everytime) 10.2Pac ( the realest,made you laugh, made you mad ,made you cry) Honorable mentions: Big Pun, Common, Canibus, Eminem, Raekwon, Ghostface, Big L, Kool Keith, Ice Cube, One!

-- J_dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 04, 2001.

Like my man BIG said "Check the pain i inflict like a convict"

3:16, im just glad you didnt try to fuckin freestyle again, that shit was worse than listening to fuckin nsync or country music. what you was saying to Best was really stupid, Youngin. 3:16 aka Austin (Stone cold steve austin calls himself the bionic redneck, i guess 3:16 thinks thats cool.)

Now, i was looking up some earlier post and it seems up in august and septemember that there was some kind of sickness that makes you a dumbass because some of those messages were people talkin about how much better of a lyricist Jayz is, oops my bad i mean Gayz. In the words of one of my friends "JAYZ IS A FLAMIN GAY HOMO FAGGOT!!" hahahaha.

And i dont see why alot of people think Born Again sucks anyways because i think almost every track on this is hot. did anyone see Nas's video? i didnt.

-- Big (makaveli_out;awz@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Like my man BIG said "Check the pain i inflict like a convict"

3:16, im just glad you didnt try to fuckin freestyle again, that shit was worse than listening to fuckin nsync or country music. what you was saying to Best was really stupid, Youngin. 3:16 aka Austin (Stone cold steve austin calls himself the bionic redneck, i guess 3:16 thinks thats cool.)

Now, i was looking up some earlier post and it seems up in august and septemember that there was some kind of sickness that makes you a dumbass because some of those messages were people talkin about how much better of a lyricist Jayz is, oops my bad i mean Gayz. In the words of one of my friends "JAYZ IS A FLAMIN GAY HOMO FAGGOT!!" hahahaha.

And i dont see why alot of people think Born Again sucks anyways because i think almost every track on this is hot. did anyone see Nas's video? i didnt..

-- Big J (makaveli_out;awz@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

Hey y'all, don't say anything that you can't back up because Big J will call you on that. I'm telling you, my man being doing his homework and it don't matter if you said that bull in your last post or in last month.

3:16, is that what the name means (Steve Austin)? No disrespect with that question. I'm just not a big wrestling fan so I was wondering what it meant, that's all. J Dolo, you got my respect. It took a little something to admit all that stuff you said, mainly because we got plenty of ignorant people on here who are just waiting to say something negative about it. And I can't ever see myself trying to sing to one of these youngins, but if you can, more power to you. It works for my man R. Kel. Oh yeah, Big J, it was like only 5 peeps in my dorm who liked Born Again when it came out, but I was one of them. For real, it was way better than I expected it to be. After I heard it, I had to go get the joint, I don't know why peeps ain't feeling it, but with me, I had judged it before I heard it. And J Dolo, I ain't never been any type of fan to them Nsync boys....However...they just did this joint on the Bill Board awards and I'm ashamed to admit I like it. LOL (There goes all of my rap creditability, right?) LOL. On the real Eve did this joint with that fine Alicia Keys, and it was tight. E-V-E be flowin'. Of course I didn't agree with most of the winners on there (I think Lil Romeo won something, but I was happy because my baby won, (Beyonce') don't hate. Bama, now that's one person from down South that I love. LOL. Lastly, I just heard "Ether" on the radio, I liked it, I expected more, but I still like it better than take over. Plus the radio was bleeping out every other word, I gotta hear the CD, but no excuses from me. Overall I did like the joint. The DJ said it was like Bubba Sparaxxx. Get it? Y'all probably missed it. Aw-ight y'all, I'm out. Holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 04, 2001.

HAHA! No, 3:16 does not stand for Stone Cold, I just got given it from the same place he did, that dude with the rainbow afro wig that used to pop up everywhere on TV. "Best", "worst", "most mediocre", that aint spanish kid, prova ancora. Yous a student and you dont go to bars? Kid you should be studying English. And dude, I aint gonna be (highered) as your electrician, I'ma be your boss.

-- 3:16 (s01064695@chelt.ac.uk), December 05, 2001.

I said I would do it. Heres my top 15 tracks, I couldnt think of 25 from the top of my head, but to make up for that shit y'all get to see my top producers, rappers, and albums. I aint spend too much time doing this so theres probably gonna be shit I left out, or shit that should never be there in the first place. THIS IS MY FAVOURITE OF "ALL-TIME", SO IF YOU SEE NAS, ITS FOR ILLMATIC. This aint in any kind of order.


1. Nothin' but a G thang - Snoop & Dre///2. Ruff Riders Anthem - DMX///3. Mama Said Knock You Out - LL Cool J///4. Triumph - Wu- Tang///5. Nuttin' New - The Roots///6. Witness - Roots Manuva///7. Woo-Hah - Busta Rhymes///8. Wishing On A Star - Jay-Z///9. Represent - Nas///10. Public Enemy Number 1 - Public Enemy///11. Criminal Minded - KRS-1///12. Smash Sumthin - Redman///13. Bring The Pain - Method Man///14. Fugee-la - The Fugees///15. Sound Of The Police - KRS-1.


1. Reasonable Doubt - Jay-Z///2. Illmatic - Nas///3. Criminal Minded - BDP///4. Yo! Bum Rush The Show - Public Enemy///5. Amerikkka's Most Wanted - Ice Cube///6. Straight Outta Compton - NWA///7. Things Fall Apart - The Roots///8. 36 Chambers - Wu-Tang///9. Kaos - Adam F///10. Tical - Method Man.


1. Timbaland///2. Swizz Beats///3. Adam F///4. RZA///5. MC Serch.


1. Jay-Z///2. B.I.G///3. Rakim///4. Nas///5. KRS-1///6. DMX///7. Terminator X (of Public Enemy in case some of y'all dont know)///8. 2Pac///9. LL Cool J///10. Method Man.

Please remember that this shit is not in order, and that I may have made a couple of mistakes. If y'all think that "It Takes A Nation Of Millions To Hold Us Back" is better than "Yo! Bum Rush The Show", or any shit like that, feel free to holla back! Peace

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 05, 2001.

Not to change the subject, but did anyone hear that Ali Vegas freestyle dissin fabolous?? if not ya really, really need to peep it at "hiphopgame.com" and go to audio. Ali said that he got more chips than fabolous's tooth. there is also a freestyle diss by Bars (formerly of Bars & Hooks from prodigy's HNIC)dissin mobb deep, and the infamous Jada vs Beanie freestyles disses from the summer time, and NEW disses they did in the Powerhouse concert in philly. (remember that story i told?) Poster Boy's got skills yo. Jurassic Park is nice, as well as dat joint he did wit BBD. He already showing versitility, doing a club song wit BBD and a gangsta song in Jurassic Park, if anyone knows who he's signed to let me know cuz i dont really know. Canibus got a tape out but i aint get it yet i'm tryin to see if ya heads heard it and ask if its worth buyin. Jay-z is coming out wit "unplugged" the same day "stillmatic" comes out (Dec 18). Hmmmmm? Qoolout, holla at ya boy.Best, keep dat flow goin, but i'll be back. Big J, as long as i've been on this post you've been backin up everything u have said without soundin ignorant so thats cool. Hillis,i take it that you like outkast

-- j_dolo (mailto:J%20_dolo@nvctc.com), December 05, 2001.

Not to change the subject, but did anyone hear that Ali Vegas freestyle dissin fabolous?? if not ya really, really need to peep it at "hiphopgame.com" and go to audio. Ali said that he got more chips than fabolous's tooth. there is also a freestyle diss by Bars (formerly of Bars & Hooks from prodigy's HNIC)dissin mobb deep, and the infamous Jada vs Beanie freestyles disses from the summer time, and NEW disses they did in the Powerhouse concert in philly. (remember that story i told?) Poster Boy's got skills yo. Jurassic Park is nice, as well as dat joint he did wit BBD. He already showing versitility, doing a club song wit BBD and a gangsta song in Jurassic Park, if anyone knows who he's signed to let me know cuz i dont really know. Canibus got a tape out but i aint get it yet i'm tryin to see if ya heads heard it and ask if its worth buyin. Jay-z is coming out wit "unplugged" the same day "stillmatic" comes out (Dec 18). Hmmmmm? Qoolout, holla at ya boy.Best, keep dat flow goin, but i'll be back. Big J, as long as i've been on this post you've been backin up everything u have said without soundin ignorant so thats cool. Hillis,i take it that you like outkast. to be honest i really didnt like stankonia that much but i did love "southernplayalisticadilacmusik". Anyway, 3:16, your mc list was hot too. i'll peep ya. One

-- j_dolo (mailto:J%20_dolo@nvctc.com), December 05, 2001.

Wassup, cousins, whodies, cats, and dunnies. H3K is back in full effect. I had to dip on the thread cuz I was too busy celevratin with them Vols!!! Rose Bowl baby!!! Hell yeah, niggas!!! Fuck The Swamp, ole wack ass, ho ass, slop ass, gay ass, fruity ass, Steve Spurrier and the rest of them Gators!!! Second, some racist cracker at my $35,000 a year school said that no one should get financial aid, and even though he didn't say it, he was talking about minorities. So I had to dedicate an episode of my TV Show (Collard Greens and Cornbread, baby!) to his ignorant, rich ass. So I had to holla at y'all. But I'm back now, with a lot to say and Big J's faggot ass is tops on my "Shit" List (aka "Rest In Piss" List)...

Big J, you bitch, you ain't never won no argument with me, bitch. All you do is talk about the South is wack at lyrics. Bitch, we ain't tryin to be lyrical geniuses! That's the difference between us and you wack ass up North cats. Three 6 doesn't say, "I'm finna do a song with some deep lyrics - some ole Nas type shit" and then come out with "Lemme See Ya Tongue Ring!" They ain't tryin to be deep about that. They havin fun and talkin bout what all real men want. They dick sucked. I mean, I call you a faggot, but I assume you're straight and you want your dicked sucked, right? I mean if you're really gay, then damn, I can see why you don't like that shit. What's wrong with head? And what's wrong with ice? What's wrong with being paid in full? Damn, everybody gotta be broke? I thought having thangs was desirable. Shit maybe I'm wrong. But damn, I like head from girls with tongue rings. And when I hear that song, I don't need to think, and Three 6 ain't tryin to make me think. So y'all clownin us for lyrics is like clowin country singers for being bad alternative singers. Country folks don't give a damn if they can't do alternative cuz that's not their goal. Lyrics ain't our goal, either. Now you wack ass up North cats DO want yo shit to sell and sound good, but y'all weak ass bastards screamin "Lyrics" while hip hop fans are screamin "Yo shit sucks!" and they comin DOWN HEAH to bizounce. Give the people what they want, I say.

Not done with Big J (aka QB's own African Boodie Scratcher)... Born Again is a disgrace to BIG's name. That shit had 5 good songs and one classic which was only a classic cuz Eminem wrecked shop on that bitch. They gon take BIG's old garbage and try to make something hot and they failed miserably. I bet BIG turned his ass over in his grave when Puff produced that bullshit. And here's an example of how you wack ass East coast cats souind the same. On "Affirmative Action," you can barely tell when AZ ends and Cormega begins.

To Lox:

Cuzzin! You know them Huricanes don't want it with them UT boys! We'll volunteer to come to the Rose Bowl and protect Pasadena from some wack ass Hurricanes that try to blow through. But I ain't really worried about y'all yet cuz I'm thinkin about LSU. Vols finna get another Sears trophy!

To Qoolout:

You did some fucked up shit earlier, dawg. You was joinin in postin "wack" South lyrics, but I thought you was stayin out that shit. I mean, to be fair, you KNOW the East Coast has wack lyrics and choruses, too, but you acted like they don't exist. And a lot of em belong to weak ass Nas. And then you didn't even get Pimp C's verse right. It's obvious you don't know the South lingo very well because "mezzazine" and "hyper called on" are not words he uses. Try "promethazine" (AKA syrup) and "hydrocodone" (a type of drug). Then you fucked up the chorus to "Back That Azz Up." If you gonna rep the East at least don't fuck up the words to Southern shit. I mean, I can make Nas look bad by misquoting him, but that's bullshit. Then you said Ludacris' lyrics are bad on "Southern Hospitality." Look at it different. They're funny.

To The Best:

You say MY freestyles are starting to sound the same? How many types of diseases are your lyrics gonna give? How many STD's and sickness will be associated with every freestyle you give? I mean, I admit the disease references are good, but if you gon say somethin about my referrals to Sisqo then you can't keep callin your shit sick. But I'm back with more flow, dunnee!!!

"Oh no! Another QB nigga found dead on arrival/He must have come DOWN SOUTH unprepared for survival//Claimin QB had the crown, but Queers bitch niggas unworthy/Bring the throne DOWN HEAH and leave it with DA DIRTY, DIRTY//I'm bout to search my soul and make a life altering decision/'SMACKAQUEENSBITCHNIGGA'-ist is my new religion//No, I'm not a cannibal but I'll swallow The Best whole/Then I'm comin for Big J cuz his death is my next goal//QB niggas mad cuz DA SOUTH 'SHOOK ONES' and took millions/Every week a platinum plaque, yo DA SOUTH's makin a killin//I'll admit; QB lyrics seem tight in a thread/But attempt to put that shit on wax and the song's already dead//So bring that song DOWN SOUTH, we'll put some life in that bitch/kind of like if I ever see The Best I'll put a knife in that bitch//Since my knife is occupied, I'll stick my fork for Big J/That 'dun' is now done for the crime of being bitch made//Wack ass QB niggas need to stop tryin to be musicians/Faggot ass niggas need to go to a school for beauticians/Seriously, yo music making skills need help/The Best, you don't know how to work the mic, so leave it on the shelf..."


To Bama:

How bout dem Vols?! SEC representin! Alabama salvaged they season and now D. Franchione gon get em back on track. Not too on track cuz they might get at my Vols. Hopefully we can both be competitive until that one Saturday in Novemeber... Also, I totally feel you on yo earlier shit about BIG. "I Got A Story To Tell" was hot as fuck. I said it earlier, but my favorite Biggie line ("Now I'm like bitch you betta talk to him, fo da fifth put a spark to him, fuck around shit get dark to him, put a part through him, lose a major part to him, arm? leg?") came from that song. BIG definitely gets mad love DOWN BOTTOM. Bama, you still da man.

To R-Son:

If you're R-Son, then address me as H-Daddy cuz I'll put ya lil ass on punishment. Your dumb ass said some shit like White folks and people under 26 say Pac is the greatest. Let's see, that would be...75% of hip hop's fan base, you jack ass?! So, that would definitely make him the best. You fuckin Pac haters are worse than niggas that hate on Jordan. Yeah the nigga's dead. But he still got more clout than any rapper alive now, including Nas' punk ass. And all that, "he was a fake" or a phony or whatever is irrelevant to the fact that he is the greatest RAPPER of all time. His delivery was tops. His style was tops. He had the image. He had tight and deep lyrics and his disses were classics. Talk all the shit about 2Pac you want, but if you sit down and use common sense you know ain't a rapper out that can fuck with Pac's crown.

To The Takeover vs. Ether:

Nas definitely said some shit that needed to be said. Jay-Z is arrogant. That garbage about him being better than BIG is appalling. And yes, Nas, I agree. How many BIG lines is Jay-Z gon spout off? Maybe his big lip ass will calm down a tad. I think Ether could have been better than the Takeover, but Nas did some appalling shit. First, to have Pac saying "Fuck Jay-Z" is some hypocritical shit! Jay- Z could sample the same shit about Nas! Nas has got to be kidding on that. Second, Ether is pretty much a copy of Pac's "Against All Odds." All that shit about Jay ridin dick and who Nas influenced is straight off the realest shit Pac ever wrote. So in the end, I have to give em a tie, because "Ether's" beat is hot and Nas gets in Jay- Z's ass, but "Ether" was done in 1996. I liked it the first time in it was on Makaveli...

Somebody said Pac respected KRS-1. On "Against All Odds" Pac was talkin to KRS-1 when he said niggas lookin like Larry Holmes, flabby and sick...

To Nas and Mobb Deep:

"All you old rappers tryin to advance, it's all over now, take it like a man..." - 2PAC


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 05, 2001.

To Hillis

I didn't even read all of your last post yet, but I read the part addresed to moi. Thus, I gotta address you. Yeah, I said I was trying to stay out of the personal type of beef, meaning I wasn't trying to call out anybody and say that they were posting BS and all of that. Instead, I'm the one who will attack what you or anybody said, not the person who said it. You feel me? I mean to all who want to attack each other, feel free to do that; I like reading it; and just for the record, I've had to go against this meathod already on here, so I'm not saying I'm above anybody. (Sure caught beef with you know who) Ha ha, B.I.G quote. Anyway, I agree I was hating on the South, but that was because y'all was hating on the East. I never said Nas had nothing but tight verses, but you and Bama were posting only the bad one, thus I did the same for Pimp C and them other clowns. Yes, the East has its share of "wack lyrics and choruses" like you said, but so does the South. Now as far as me getting Pimp C's verse wrong, you can't blame that on me. When I posted them I also said that I got these lyrics from the net. Therefore, the net must have had them on there wrong; I wasn't trying to help Pimp look bad. I felt his rhymes were bad without my help and I know you disagree, but that's just how I feel. You said I don't know south lingo. I can't despute you on that, because you are 100% right. About "Back that thing up," like I said, the site must have had them wrong first, not me. Many have told me that "Southern Hospitality" is funny. I disagree, but maybe they are funny to some of you all, but they aren't to me. And as far as him having bad lyrics...well we just gotta agree to disagree on that one. Lastly, if someone puts up something and I disagree with him or her, I'll let it be known, just like you do. And if someone attacks a rapper or coast that I like, I'ma attack one of their rappers or their coast. That's all that was.

Eminem- Never been afraid to say what's on my mind at any given time or day.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.









-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Ok Hillis, I read the rest of your post. 1st of all I gotta say Best, I've felt every one of you verses. Hillis, that last joint was tight, you put some effort in to that and I give you your props. About that Jay vs. Nas, Jay copied Pac first when he said "You was using it wrong/You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song," so he opened the door for Nas to copy Pac on his comeback. I'm not really a fan of college ball, but y'all know I give love to George Town. Where y'all think Allen I honed his skills? D.C.! And I know them Skins and Wizards ain't lookin all that right now, but hey the season ain't over. But on the for real, the North got plenty of tight teams, but I'm not even going say anymore about that. About that man R-son, I agree with you for the most part. "Name one rapper alive that Pac ain't influnce." B.I.G's last CD, wasn't better than Life After, but you said it had 5 good songs. So it was at least an okay CD, right? Now about three six, I'm not even feeling there name for one thing. Also, I'd rather hear Lil' Kim tell me about getttin' brains (as Jada calls it LOL) not them clowns, but like I said before somebody must like it cause they are still making similar tracks. I just don't like it. And I think that man Timbo is str8 outta VA (correct me if I'm wrong) and we all know his beats are tight. Swizz got tight beats, etc. So I'ma have to ask you (Hillis) to go ahead and give up the props on that point. Aw-ight y'all, holla. Oh yeah, LOX, Jay Jerkin...LOL

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Adrian, Adrian, Adrian.....I don't understand you dun. How do you go from comparing music to comparing sports....LOL. Are you trying to say that the "dirty south" is all around better than the east......LOL. I mean you have to be kidding me. Now you talk about Ether not being a mad diss track, wo get real, the shyt destroyed wack azz "Gay Z and Cock a Fella records", face it the real hip hop KING is back. Ether is getting play all over the phucking country, and the c.d. isn't even out yet. I know heads that are constantly requesting that joint from their local radio station. "Another thing" why in the hell did Pac's name come up (OH ORIGINALLY FROM BROOKLYN), who gives a phuck if some of Nas's references came from "Against All Odds", the point is he exposed Gay Z with FACTS. Like Nas said about "Jaz" should also concern you "let the late great veteran live". Oh I get it, the south doesn't have a great "rapper", and you hate on the eastcoast emcees, so you have to "ride" with Pac because he went against the east......LMAO....CRAB AZZ NIGGA

Oh yeah back on the south vs. east thing...LOL If each region had to choose an emcee or "rapper" for all you south duns, who would represent the south.....Tela, MJG, Pimp C, Miracle, how about Mr. Servon...yeah right, the only legitimate "rapper" that is respected in the industry WORLD WIDE is Scarface. Now look on the east we have so many to choose from. From commercial as Jay Z and late 90's LL Cool J to real hip hop heads like Nas and B.I.G.......So with a second round k.o. with 2 min. and 16 sec. remaining the east wins!!!

Face it dun, you hatin on Nas big time but I bet you will have Stillmatic on the 18th......ISN'T THAT RIGHT ADRIAN.

I know you didn't say that Queens niggaz can't deliver on the mic and south niggaz can.....LMAO I am not going to even comment to this ignorance!!



-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Oh that last comment pointed at Nasty and Mobb Deep, I know for a fact it doesn't fit Nas 'cause wo is only 28 years old. It should be pointed at someone like Gay Z "36 in a karate class, you tae bo hoe tryin to work it out"...LOL

south is accepted north is respected

"Im so handsome I got chicks that snippers couldn't take out"

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

What chu talkin bout Willis?

hmm still no facts from you Willis, its the same old shit with you, might as well respond. you say your not tryin to be good lyricist...fine but what else is there to be? when you guys down south rap your not talking about anything(most), its utterly retarded. and you say up here we have some crappy lyrics ourselves at times eh? well find the worst lyrics from up here and find the best lyrics from down there and compare lol. all lyrics dont have to be deep for me. aint nothin wrong about gettin head and shit like that, but if like in 90% of your songs are like that then your a cornball. thats not the kinda shit id like to listen to anyway, i dont need a couple of perverts yellin about how they fucked a hoe or some shit like that, and i bet the majority of the people here dont either. i mean, thats not the kind of shit you could even how busta says"break yo neck" too. and theres more for that punk ass willis. you know you thought ether was better, but of course you cant admit it because me and best would be right about Nas bringin it to this punk ass Gayz. and ohh i guess that power ranger notebook is almost full with lyrics now. yeah Nas and Mobb Deep are really old, prodigy is the some age as 2Pac you son of a bitch. and as far as im concerned ive already won this argument because showing your fuckin flaws right in your face and you have no counter, son. i declare myself the champ, mentaly, you threw in the towl a long time ago son. Everyone on this board knows im holdin it down.

on another note, what label is nore on and what label did he used to be on? ah that reminds me back to that flamin faggot willis, if theres ever a coastal beef between the north and south you know the south couldnt produce any good disses, with niggas like Nas, Mobb Deep, Styles(the hardest there is), nore and more hahahaha id like to see ludacris come up with a decent diss lol. im not a racist person (not all to the extreme anyways) but you know 75% or more of the people who buy commercial dirty south cd's are white people. and nope, i aint done yet so ill wait til your done pissing in your pants from defeat......................... ok now, you say born again was garbage. listen to these songs, dead wrong, rap phenomenom,i really wanna show you, i hope you niggaz sleep, my niggaz, the song with mobb deep in it, if i should die before i wake, and the song with busta bust in it. like i said before, your punk ass doesnt deserve to listen to rap, all your punkass cares about it fuckin beats(obviously a whiteboy)i like a good beat as good as the next man but if thats all there is then its called "dance". try to prove me wrong bitch, you will have to do better than that to be able to stand up to me son.

yo Q you from VA? im living there now but i want to move back(lived in at least 10 different places) cause its so damn boring out here.

sup to my niggaz Q, LOX, j-dolo, and Best.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Does anyone else think that this Adrian kid has too much time on his hands? At least if you're going to stay up late on the internet, look at porn.

-- Andrew Ricketts (ricketts83@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

NEWSFLASH!! Gay Z has already came back with a response to "Ether". I heard some of the shyt, if you ask me it is in the same category as Takeover, talking about how he has more chips than Nas and that why is he using a Pac sample....LOL, like he never used any of Pac's shyt, and talking some more about Nas's baby moma (damn is Gay Z obssessed with dun, or is he insecure)

Some of the lyrics go like this:

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

My fault, I accidently hit the submit button, but the lyrics go like this: It was Mega and then Pac ripped u/ let the gloc lift u/ fuck it u aren't in my class so ill dismiss u/ be real son i "gave u power"/ i got enough chips to slay u cowards/ u say i spit alot of B.I.G.'s rhymes well i'm payin homage/ what was nastradamus an album or predicted garbage.......................................niggaz don't get the message until i cruch their larynx/ your daughter's at school gettin picked on cause i fucked her parent.....Once again dude is giving all opinions and no facts except for the baby moma situation. ( Why hasn't he responded to the apology to Kiss, or running from real thugs in Marcy, or taking "Jaz's" name, or begging Russell Simmons to take the diss "Stillmatic" off of New York radio....LOL, or eating Foxy's pussy and not fucking, or being 36 years old....LMAO, or getting abused and called ugly as a child, or gettin ran by QUEENS niggaz (Russell Simmons)......SORRY JAY Z BUT IN ORDER TO DEFEAT NAS YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT MORE THAT JUST HAVING MORE MONEY THAN HIM (WHICH IS QUESTIONABLE) AND HITTING HIS BABY MOMS (WHICH HE ADMITS AND WHICH WAS FOUR YEARS AGO.....I MEAN DAMN HE BRAGS ON IT LIKE IT WAS HIS FIRST TIME GETTIN SOME PUSSY)LMAO

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

I know that I keep posting, but I just got word from my peeps back home that he saw Nas at Fat Joe's record party at Jimmy's cafe, and dun was getting mad love for his album. He said that Fat Joe also was on the mic, and that he already heard "Stillmatic". Dun said that the source should raise the mic rating to 6 mics cause this album will definitely be a 6 mic classic. Oh my peeps also said that every head was present except those guys from Cock a fella and duns from the south...lol. He said that Fat Joe was talking about if Jay Z wanted his chain back he knows where he can get it.....LOL (talking about that night at club Carbon when Pun and Joe punked the shyt out of Gay Z and took his shyt.....LOL). Ill keep duns posted

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Best or Big J? Do you know the names of the other Nas vs. Jay disses? Yeah, they got a lot of peeps here calling the radio requesting "Ether." The DJ said that Nas released it on Jigga's birthday. I know how true that is. Big J, naw I'm not from VA, but I'm right next to it. D.C. that is. What about you? And Best, I didn't realize some of the stuff that Nas is saying. For example, according to one of your posts, you said Jay asked Russell to pull Nas' diss from the NY airways. Is that what that line meant? And did he give Jada an apology for real? Oh yeah, that karate line had me rolling. Tell me it ain't so...lol.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Ah my nigga Best. HAHAHAHAHAHA THEY JACKED HIS CHAIN!?!?!?1 AHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....AHHHHHHH HAHAHA!!!! Damn Gayz is a straight punk lol. oh Willis you know i gotta post more about you kid, im not done, not by a long shot. Alright your now actualy starting to piss me off. Your saying that it took Eminiem to make the song Dead Wrong any good?! god damn your such a dumbass. you know if born again came out back when he was alive (minus the new collabos of course) all yall would be sayin that was the best record he ever made. Best you said alot of other rappers where there? cool.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Q? D.C is in VA dun. i live in this punk ass small town called lexington, when i finish high school,(next year) im goin to georgetown college and play some ball.

now to quote from Born again, i really wanna show you "City laws made by big Nas and Biggie smalls"-Nas. Me and Best runnin this shit and like Syles said "Anybody who beef can swim in the river" damn im good with quotes. oh and you want to compare sports teams Willis? ill use basketball since its the greatest sport on earth. lets see the south has the atlanta hawks who just got killed by the spurs, they have only won like 5 games. We got the knicks who are doing all right(i swear they should have kept my man Patrick Ewing who came from georgetown college btw) We got philly(eastern champs, and will be this year). heh im still laughing about Gayz gettin punked, and jacked out of his chain(prolly one of those lil bow wow micky mouse chains) Oh and scareface put you punk asses in the rap game so the least you could do is make some decent songs like he did lol. yo and i would look for nore to be one of the new great rappers man hes alright. im gonna watch rap city tomarrow cuz i wanna see he they have some corny ass suckas from the south on there. every time they embarass themselves. ill give you an example. Trick Daddy said to tigga, "this is one of my songs im workin on" and then did the damn thing, how pathetic. my man big Tigga can rap better than ALL of you southern rappers. again, imagine Gayz gettin jacked by them two, i bet he pissed in his pants.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

Q? D.C is in VA dun. i live in this punk ass small town called lexington, when i finish high school,(next year) im goin to georgetown college and play some ball.

now to quote from Born again, i really wanna show you "City laws made by big Nas and Biggie smalls"-Nas. Me and Best runnin this shit and like Syles said "Anybody who beef can swim in the river" damn im good with quotes. oh and you want to compare sports teams Willis? ill use basketball since its the greatest sport on earth. lets see the south has the atlanta hawks who just got killed by the spurs, they have only won like 5 games. We got the knicks who are doing all right(i swear they should have kept my man Patrick Ewing who came from georgetown college btw) We got philly(eastern champs, and will be this year). heh im still laughing about Gayz gettin punked, and jacked out of his chain(prolly one of those lil bow wow micky mouse chains) Oh and scareface put you punk asses in the rap game so the least you could do is make some decent songs like he did lol. yo and i would look for nore to be one of the new great rappers man hes alright. im gonna watch rap city tomarrow cuz i wanna see he they have some corny ass suckas from the south on there. every time they embarass themselves. ill give you an example. Trick Daddy said to tigga, "this is one of my songs im workin on" and then did the damn thing, how pathetic. my man big Tigga can rap better than ALL of you southern rappers. again, imagine Gayz gettin jacked by them two, i bet he pissed in his pants.

oh and again to you hillis, i do dislike jordan, i think shaq has no skills cause he fouls people on every play and never gets called for it, and i think Allen Iverson will be the MVP this year again, if not him then Vince Carter(The BEST player in the league btw).

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 05, 2001.

How do you silence Nas dickriders about how great he is? Well, dunnies, you stumble across a song by 3LW featuring . . . NASTY NAS!!! LMAO! Are you QB fags kidding me?! How can you call Jay-Z pop and Nas street when Nas does a fuckin song with 16 year olds? Just because he sounds 16 doesn't mean he should commit statutory rape! What a loser! THREE LITTLE WOMEN FEATURING NAS ESCOBAR!!! (Insert Sisqo reference here) You QB "dunnees" really can't say shit about that. But I'm sure you'll try . . .

You see, Big J, bitch, that's what a fact is. You claim to have spoken facts, but all your shit is opinion based. You say if you're not a good lyricist, what are you? You could be a good MUSICIAN! You could actually sell an album! You could actually be liked by all hip-hop fans! Your fan base wouldn't be a bunch of narrow-minded faggots. And here's another fact for your dumb ass. What would sell more: a CD of Timbaland produced instrumentals or a pamphlet of Nas lyrics? Hmmm . . . You know the answer, maggot boy. Go back and look at your posts and find me one "fact" you've mentioned cuz all you do is hate on the South with your shitty belief that lyrics mean something.

Qoolout, we stood side by side against your personal whore, Anny, so I ain't gonna start no shit with you cuz you cool peeps. I may not agree with all you say, but I be feelin you cuz you represent what you like without hatin. "Ether" is nice, but I can't help but flashback to 1996 when Nas was on the receiving end of the disses. But maybe that shows that 5 years later, Pac still got niggas recognizin real game. Also, Born Again was not trash because it didn't have good songs. It was trash because the other 11 songs were wack. That shit with Nas?! Big J, Nas may be ya boy, but that song was weak as Queens. Plus, the damn song is a remake, which weakens it anyway. That Mobb Deep song sucked ass, too. Rap Phenomenon and the song with Cube was aiight. Notorious was pop as hell, but catchy. The song with CMR and Eminem were good and Eminimen torched BIG. But that trash with Craig Mack, that other song with Puff and Lil Kim, and the Junior Mafia song were all boo boo. So yes, I still think Born Again is trash with the 5 okay songs it had.

The Best, you know good and well, you up North sissies don't want it with Da South. You think Bin Laden brought it to y'all, just wait till my niggas DOWN HEAH bring it to ya ass. DA DIRTY would have brought that WTC bitch tumblin down as soon as we hit that ho. And then you would come crawlin DOWN BOTTOM to the man from TEXAS where it get HECTIC beggin us for more money. Plus, let's see . . . Pac is from Brooklyn, but ends up lacin the whole East with "Ether." Guess that shows you how shitty the Five Boroughs really are, crab azz dunny. You see, the East Coast is no longer respected. Y'all let one nigga chase you up into Shea Stadium and hide, and the weak ass Outlawz still diss y'all and you don't holla back. The East Coast ain't shit. Y'all hold no clout in rap. Ask a nigga, ANY nigga, who they more scared of: soft ass Nas or a big fat ass nigga like 8ball. Ain't nobody scared of Jay-Z or Puffy or Nas or DMX anymore. You slop ass niggas need to stick to freestylin and ghost writin cuz your LPs are "mad wack, yo."

Why do I worry about production Big J? Cuz I'm a White boy? Is that another one of your facts, you ignorant fucker? I care about production for two reasons: I'm from DA SOUTH and I produce songs myself. I peep game from all producers and I notice people in general dig Southern beats way more than them garbo up North beats by RZA or Common. So production means a lot to me cuz I care about MUSIC. You see, music isn't all about lyrics. I've heard shitty lyrics from all genres of music, but the songs themselves are decent for various other reasons, mainly production. Big J and The Best fail to understand that lyrics don't mean shit if the song sounds wack. So, you can take the South's best lyrics and they still be worse than Nas' worst lyrics (which isn't true, but for the sake of argument . . .) and we don't give a fuck cuz we produce good SONGS. But I know, lemme give you a preview of Big J and The Best's comeback . . .

"Nas' dick is delicious. Mobb Deep can overcome sickle cell anemia. Everybody likes DA SOUTH, but we're gonna hate cuz we're embarassed Nas did a song with 3LW! Record sales ain't nothin."

You're right, fellas. QB record sales=nothin. Wack ass borough . . .

Lox, cuzzin! You know niggas don't give a fuck about hockey! And I said the Yankees were straight. But c'mon, most niggas only care about football and basketball. The Jets are suspect. And I can't believe the Giants would prove last year was a fluke like THIS!!! And the Knicks . . . the record speaks for itself. And when the Dicks, er Knicks did make it to the Finals, they got served by Houston (straight out DA DIRTY!). NY what? Qoolout, I'm pullin for the Wiz (only cuz of Jordan) and the Redskins straight. If they run the table, they in the playoffs. And my Vols is concentratin on LSU. But if they win that bitch, we gon take it to Miami. I admit, if Miami wins it'll probably be a blowout, but if it's close, them TN boys gon do it to another FLA team 35-31. Mark my words . . .

The Best, tell everybody why you really ain't respondin to my freestyle. It's cuz I called ya ass out on the sick references and you can't do shit else. Lyrical geniuses my ass. When you tell a bitch to put down the mic, the bitch listens, eh The Best?

Big J, you steadily hollerin about White folks buyin 75% of DA SOUTH but anybody with good sense (obviously not you) know that they got Esco's trash and The Infamous right next to 400 Degreez and Word of Mouf. And them same white boys will make or break Stillmatic. If Stillmatic brings Nas back, it'll be cuz White folks liked it and ya punk ass knows it, so don't get it twisted. You QB cats is ignorant as fuck! Why the fuck do you think White Boys know who Miracle and Pastor Troy are but don't know DJ Hi Tek? Them White boys know who Nas is and Mobb Deep is (thanks to Pac) and Common and Canibus and Cormega And AZ and Nature. I go to school with "mad" crackers that know them muthafuckas, I don't be surprised cuz I know white boys be in to rap. Y'all act like all White people watch BET and buy "She Get It From Her Mama" blindly. But that's not true. Some do, some don't. Just like niggas and everybody else. So kill that white boy shit, cuz you just begin sounding more ignorant and racist each time, you stupid bitch.

Yeah, Timbo from VA and he be reppin DA SOUTH. Check out his past shit . . .

I'm gonna quote the only nigga from NY (who could that be?) with actual skills when I tell you niggas, "Think I'm pussy, I dare you to stick ya dick in this . . ."

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Big J, you really ain't bout shit. You're in high school?! No wonder your arguments are undeveloped. I ain't gonna focus on your lame ass musicical tastes, (faggot from VA reppin Queens, ha!). But that shit about sports was really off track, dawg. First off, the Atlanta Hawks are garbage, but who is the best in the NBA? The Lakers. Led by Shaquille, the best player in the game, from TEXAS where it get HECTIC, they buildin a dynasty. Robert Horry from Alabama. Rick Fox left wack ass Boston to play for a contender. But before the Lakers it was another TEXAS team, San Antone winnin it. Before that it was Jordan from NORTH CAROLINA (RAISE UP, TAKE YA SHIRT OFF, TWIST IT AROUND YA HAND, SPIN IT LIKE A HELICOPTER). Then when Jordan retired, it was HOUSTON (I mean TWO-STON) doin it. Then it was Jordan again. DA SOUTH been doin it in B-ball. We way better than them sissy ass Knicks.

Oh, by way The Best, you wonderin who represents DA SOUTH? Bitch, we a Congress DOWN HEAH. DA DIRTY is too big for one man. We have numerous representatives. ATL, MEMPHIS, DEM BAMA BOYS, FLORIDA and N'AWLINS, NORTH CAROLINA, and HECTIC TEXAS, all have a seat and we'll welcome Kentucky and South Carolina and Mississippi when they get some reps. For every one big name rapper up North, we have 5. Everybody's a winner DOWN BOTTOM whereas up North, everybody's a target for Bin Laden.

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Well boys and girls, I just finished my Masters Program here in Japan and I am off to Ko Samui with my wife for a month vacation. Yeah, I am married, but Im also reaching 28. Anyway, I came on this board to listen to what the youth feels about certain subjects and you fellas are definatley passionate about Hip-Hop, like I used to be when I was 18-22, but times change and so do people....Hillis, Good luck in Law School, it's not easy, so prepare yourself..BigJ, you finishing HIghschool in a year, damn my ten year reunion is in a year. Georgetown is a solid school, keep your studies in check, GL...The Worst(best), your 20 and studying to be an Engineer, thats good, but do it because U like it, not because the money is good, no hard feelings on this side,GL....3:16, in the UK, thats good that you came on this thread, dont know if you like Futbol, Argentina and England in the same group, thats tough. Good luck buddy...Steph, my little one in Montreal, your a good girl, read,read,read and you will succeed....Qoolout, still in college, eh?? those are good times, enjoy them. you know my phrase, whatever challenge,obstacle,hardship or goal that u are in,keep that phrase in mind,until your Victory. later hermano...J-Dolo.Lox, I heard you too, GL....its been a pleasure.....HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE....MANNY GUEVARA ...ECUADOR World Cup 2002!!!!!

-- Manny Guevara (elconde4276@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Uh, Manny? Thanks?

Anyway . . .

Andy "1LW" Ricketts! I thought I ran yo weak ass of a month ago. Oh well, you grew some hair down there and decided you wanted to test the man. Faggot ass dunnee, you can't fuck with me. Mandy (or do you prefer Sandy) Ricketts need to take his bitch ass on. For those of you who think Mandy makes any sense, just remember I can quote him saying 2Pac had the lyrical prowess of a 5 year old. Scroll up and see for yourself. That fag has NO good arguments. See ya later, Sandy!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Another thing Big J, why does yo dumb ass always submit the same thing twice? Do you know how to use the thread format? Nigga stuck on stupid . . .

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Waz up all....................I'm back!Yes it is me Hollywood haven't seen my rap niggas and nigglets in a while.So I just like to know has anybody answer my question "About what is pop!" and if you guys know where I can get some stillmatic song mp3's I would like to see what this album is going to be like.Also Hillis you need to write a book on this shit I scroll down and I see hell of shit with your name on it.Damn you a devoted person on this board.A manny you an't going to show me no love!You could have at least called me a cockroach or something.Qool you still hoding it down.BigJ,The Best,LOX,and the other road doggs keep me busy reading all yall shit.3:16 you my tag team partner, nothing but love for you my nigga and bama the dirty dirty is the place to be in the summer.I'm going down to the ATL to live with my parents and I am going to decater GA and I am can't wait.Keep it up yall and stay gutter forever! Thanks Holla back

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 06, 2001.

Yo Big J, I feel you on your Shaq and AI statements but I got to disagree with Carter bein' the best in the league. T-Mac or Kobe bring more to the wood each night dog. I will say that Carter has no peer athletically or in making the sensational play, but Vince don't always hold up his end on defense. McGrady and Kobe can both lock their man down and have the ability to defend the 1,2 and 3. Carter knocks down the three better than T and Kobe, but his lack of a complete game prevents him from being the best in the league. Don't get me wrong playa, I love VC, but he needs to round out his shit a bit more.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Since we switching over to sports half of the time, i'ma take the opportunity to shout out my man Lennox Lewis, "Undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World (soon to knock out Tyson). Y'all know that first Rahman fight was just straight hustlin', y'all saw Rahman go down hard the second time right! England going to Japan and South Korea for the World Cup, tough group, but Argentina know we can beat them, Sweden is a tight game, but we got Sven now. David Beckham, Steven Gerrard, Michael Owen, Ashley Cole, etc. Prince Naseem, regain the crown kid. Van Exel is a league leader? Damn...

Back to hip hop though. What else, apart from a joint with 3LW, can shut up these weak ass Nas followers. hmmm... hows about that soundtrack for the Streetfighter movie, or even the one for Men in Black. I guess he must need the money to pay for the production on stillmatic.

Yo! somebody tell me where I can find the lyrics for that new Nas diss Jay come up with.

Hollywood, big shout out, the answer to the pop question you asked is up the page (nov 28), if you need to know more, holla. Q, nuttin' but love, you know what you talkin' bout. The "worst", shut up. Hillis and Bama; YEAH YEAH! keep reppin' the South, you gettin' love HEAH! Steph, where you gone girl, keep it real. Manny, you older than I thought, keep it tight pops, you got nuttin' but love here. Big J, you play ball? i'ma 2 guard son, but then basketball aint all that over here. Everyone else, keep it tight. Like my man Ali G said, "Respect".

Y'all know its my 20th birthday tommorow right?

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 06, 2001.

Adrian....lol you're white!! Why do you constantly use the "nigga" term. I know it still means ignorant, but that word should never leave your lips. Oh I get it you only use it on the computer because you know if you said it in public it wouldn't sit right with other AFRICAN AMERICANS.....lol

Now back to the topic at hand. I once said that 2 Pac (the supposed to be south's savior as Adrian sees it) portrays that "thug" shyt half of the time. Yo my peeps got duns in QB that know mad 40's that use to punk the shyt out of Pac, and if you ever dare to go to QUEENS BRIDGE white boy.....LOL cats will tell you the same damn thing. That is why that thug shyt Pac portrayed was suspect (He was probably a thug when he joined Suge Knight, but before then........NO, watch thug immortal!!)

Like I said before I attend "South"ern University in the heart of the South, and mad heads is influenced by that east coast flava. You know the REAL HIP HOP, not that "Pimp Hard, Pimp Harder" bullshit!! Maybe not in Memphis...lol, but in Baton Rouge mad heads is feelin Nas, Gay Z, Jada, Styles, Ali Vegas, shyt even corny azz Fabolous. Oh I got this dun in my Differential Equations course who had the nerve to say that Ja Rule is the best emcee ever....lol and guess where he is from.....MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE!! That alone proves that duns in the south don't know what the fuck they are talking about.

Oh and that shyt with Nas with 3LW, yeah I admit Nasty tried to go commerical, and he failed because that is not his style and will never be unlike cats in the South. He is street and dudes will see that on his new lp. Dun only has like two songs on their that are commercial which are "Got Yourself A Gun", and "Braveheart Party", which in my opinion he still spits references to the streets. Now you keep crabbin the east with these Bin Laden references, and he went to school in Louisiana, so yall wack muphuckas gave dude the knowledge to do the shyt he is doing.....LOL Oh and don't be suprised if dun blows the phucking super bowl up in flames. One more thing out of all of those states/cities you named, honestly CRAB AZZ "NIGGER" (YEAH YOU'RE IGNORANT) who in the phuck is phucking with Nasty on the mic. I'll give you a hint.....NO ONE!! Oh, yeah I almost forgot you didn't have a reply to that wordie shyt huh, yeah I know you don't know what the phuck you are talking about on that tip either.

One more thing any body see that new video by Mater P.....LMAO, also that new cut by Miracle called "Bounce Like Me" it has the same beat as his first shyt "Bounce" and almost the same phucking wack azz chorus.....LOL. Oh, is that Hip Hop Adrian...LOL "UMBRA"

"the streets was talkin dun, cause I heard it while I was sleep/ that this Gay Z and Cock A Fella Records wanted beef"-Nas

Once again the south is accepted and the east is RESPECTED!!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Man, I don’t know which one of these peeps got me laughing the most. Is it Big J with his stuff like “ power ranger note book and quotes from Different Strokes, or that man Hillis with his suff like “y’all say Nas is delicious” and “you grew some hair and decided to step to the man?” Oh yeah, can’t forget J’s “you really starting to make me mad now, not done by a long shot” and H’s why do you always post twice, stuck on stupid?” LMAO

Big J, I agree Shaq gets away with everything. That man is way over rated if you ask me, but I admit he has skill. But Allen I is my man. And I’ve heard that about D.C. being in MD or VA before, but I say we ain’t in neither. But, Big J is my, dogg. Hillis, just like you don’t want it with me, I don’t want it with you. I don’t agree with most of the stuff you spit, but there is a mutual respect there. You’re right about us bringin’ it to Manny at the same time, so yous qool with moi. “Is the enemy of my enemy my friend?” Plus we do agree on somethings, like Pac is the best and everybody scared to bring it to the Outlawz. But I gotta say, them boys are from New Jerz, so they are East. And somebody tell me, does the East get to claim VA or is that South? Another thing Hillis, that quote, it was Lil Kim, right? Yeah, she got a nice flow if you ask me. I expected a lil more from her last CD but I still say she is the best female in the game (rapping wise,cause overall my girl and baby’s mama is Beyonce’ LOL) Oh yeah, “I thought I ran you off the board already” That had me LMAO. Big J, Mickey Mouse chain, lol, Hillis, not bad cause it had 5 good songs, but because the other 11 were wack, also lol. Holla Hollywood. Manny… good luck dogg. You sounded like one of them wise old heads in your last post, lol, but I felt you; have fun in Ko Samui (whereever that is). 3:16, I’m not even gonna try to get you to stop hatin on Nas; we gotta just agree to disagree, but happy b-day dogg; we qool. And I don’t care about hit em up, I still say Pac honed his skills on the East, thus he is East Coast. Oh yeah, Bama, Kobe is good, but he ain’t much better than AI or VC, it just looks that way cause he has Shaq. Put either one of them (AI or VC) on with Shaq and take Kobe away and you’ll get the same result. Best and the rest, holla.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

I love contention! Making a name for myself....on this weak ass wannabe hip hop post!! Puhleeze I'll let my Pac comments rest, again he's not the greatest but he was good. I'll stick to the post though, Ether and Burn were tight tracks no doubt and no matter how you cut it, spell it or chase it. Nas and Mobb Deep got shitted on in every sense of the word and the come backs compared to "The Take over" were lackluster. Let the beef die, swallow ya pride or ya Tu tu what have you and keep makin music. Because life will go on no one's career will end. They might lose more fans but this page proves, as long as you got some fool ridin ya dick you will always eat. It's not like the back in the day if you lost a battle your career was over or put on hold (ie Kool Moe Dee, Ice T, MC Shan, Steady B, Cool C, Supernatural who is still a nice Emcee but after losing to Craig G...oh well)

I laugh at all you kids who talk tough shit online, about destroying me. Breathe easy kids, it's all hip hop and opinion. Oh and about the white kids and under 26 thing, did I hurt ya pride? Truth hurts huh...real heads know the deal. Like I said in my first post hip hop heads will never agree on anything. I needed this little squabble just to get the blood flowing and break up the monotonous dick ridin.

And all y'all other cats, no name, broke ass hot dog jockeys....I got love for you. But keep my name outcha mowf, you only have room for one dick in there. Whether it be Pac's, BIG's, Jigga's or Nas.

Now I can go away! (evil smirk)


"....Hip Hop it can't save you". Mos Def/Hip Hop

-- R-Son (Lionpsyche@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

im a power forward/center, id rather play PF though.

now willis lol. you must live in one of those wannabe viles cuz everyplace ive lived(neywork,queens,philly,VA,Maryland) aint never have no whiteboys that know anything about queens niggaz or underground shit. and i posted that message twice cuz i hit submit and stop when i wasnt done you homo. hmm you fail to grasp what ive been saying. hiphop (or in the south hip-pop) lyricly based is better than beat based. "UP HEAH" we got some good beats but thats not all we focus on. you cats downsouth focus only on your damn beats so we dont notice your punkass lyrics. yeah im still in school and your prolly way older but whos giving the better argument? i want yall to tell me cause if i aint, ill actualy try. now, no matter where i am if i hear a whiteboy saying negro,nigger,nigga,niggaz ill beat him down or get some fellas and jump his ass. and Bama i kinda agree, INvincable Carter may not have it all on defense but when he wants to score he does, and is probably the most athletic person in the nba. And im stunned to hear that from manny but i aint complainin about it. Willis has failed to respond to most of the shit because he has no counter, come to think of it, this guy really sucks at debating/arguing. "half ass rappers shouldnt have it"-Biggie Smalls. that statement is so true. yo your punk ass is lucky im at school right now otherwise id go all out on yas. and ill ask these white cats if they have ever heard of mobb deep(other than quiet storm) or any other of the true rappers.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Aiyo duns the Jay Z reply to "Ether" is official it is called "People Are Talking". Go to hiphopgame.com and listen. This response is so "LLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEE". Gay Z needs to give it up. He has all yall muphuckas brainwashed into believing that he is the God emcee, but when someone pulls his card he doesn't show his "God emcee" talents. Oh, yeah Cock a Fella was on hot 97 last night and they said everyone freestyled to a beat, and the dun that had heads turnin' was Cam. That is a damn shame that killa Cam is the nicest nigga on the R.O.C. and he just joined them.

"God son across the belly/ proves that you lost already"-Nas

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Qoolout, I love to entertain so if I can have lol, then that's good shit cuz. I don't think Pac (to me) can be called East Coast cuz his style was extremely different from NY's top rappers. His style was based on his delivery; NOT LYRICS! Plus, he dissed the whole coast. I mean, how can I be Southern and diss the whole South? Oh, well, just my view.

Damn, I'm white now? Well, okay. Then The Best is a towelhead terrorist and Big J is...still stuck on stupid. Anyway, I use the term nigga for Black people, but sometimes for cats in general. But that's just me. But since I'm white now, I'll just get it out my system now: negro, nigger, nigga, niggas, etc. etc... Whoa! What a rush! I hope Big J doesn't call his boys on me!

The Best, 2Pac isn't DA SOUTH's savior, he's just the East Coast's murderer. He took all your clout. And you say "dunnees" used to punk him out up there, and he still took all ya respect! How come none of you QB fags responded with these facts?! You supposedly did it to Jay- Z, so why not 2Pac? Probably because the shit ain't true, or you still haven't gotten up from Pac's knockout punch. I know if any nigga came DOWN HEAH and got they ass served and left talkin shit, we'd be on him like White on my skin. But that's how we do it. No bitch here. Our hearts pump blood, not slushee like you Queer Bait niggas.

Dunnee, it's mad respectable that you don't try to save Nas from that 3LW bullshit, and be glad you mentioned "Got Yourself A Gun" before I did, cuz whoa! That shit wreaks of pop. Hope more tracks are like "Ether." But Nas actually mentioned his own name in the midst of Pac and BIG???!!! Is Nas sniffin ether? The best rappers don't drop off the radar for 8 years...

"Nasty Nas sat on the wall, Esco's Trash had a great fall, all QB bitches and all QB hoes, couldn't put Nastradamus back together no mo..."

Another thing, The Best, you can't fool me with that "this nigga from Memphis said Ja Rule is the best" and try to make one cat represent DA whole SOUTH! I know NY cats who say Common is the nicest MC ever. Fuckin Common?! At least Ja Rule has more than 10 fans! Shit, R&B Ja Rule is 20 times better than ole busted ass flow Common. Damn, if we gon jock weak niggas, at least we pick weak niggas who are at the top of rap, not no name chumps with a plaque made of dog shit.

R-Son, I laugh at old bastards who need to realize hip hop has passed them. I know you still reppin Young MC and C&C Music Factory, but they time is up, "dunnee." So is yours. I bet you think Too $hort is on top of the game, now, dunnie. LOL. If you can't hear me, you should turn down that Sir Mix A Lot tape...

Big J, I'm glad you feel lyric based music over beat based music, but a general rule of music is that it sounds better when the music is good. Check out the lyrics of Destiny's Child "Survivor." Them lyrics are terrible for an R&B song, but it's still tight CUZ OF DA BEAT, YO! IT'S MAD "FRESH!" Answer my question Big and The Best: what would sell more? A CD of Timbaland produced instrumentals or a pamplet of Nas lyrics? Well, what's the answer? Don't let this "White" boy intimidate you...

I've responded to everything you've said. You should switch up your argument. You say the same thing over and over and that makes me say the same thing over and over. Find a new point other than lyrics and I'll switch from production and sales. Because you know production outdoes beats based on the sales, you crab azz dunnee!

The Best, Da 504 Boyz spell it "whodi." And we know where they hail from. And I've seen CMR spell it that way, too. Are you happy I addressed it, "kid?"

C'mon folks. Shaq is da shit. Just cuz he outweighs whole teams mean nothing. He can't be stopped and he hits FTs when needed. Ask any GM, coach, or owner in the league who they would love to build their team around right now. It's Shaq cuz he is the essence of dominance. Vince Carter does lack on the defensive end, so that automatically takes him out of contention. And KG and CWebb, are better than Kobe and Vince and AI simply on versatility. But Shaq is The Daddy. Case in point: In the Finals, how many cats can continuously POSTERIZE the NBA's defensive player of the year???!!! Hmmm... Y'all know the answer (not AI).

Anyway, I got to go...

Qoolout, that quote was actually from Biggie, but I got another BIG quote for Big J and The Best...

Big J, "you're mad cuz my style you're admirin. Don't be mad, UPS is hirin..."

The Best, "you shoulda benn a cop, fuck hip-hop. With that freestyle, you're bound to get shot..."

H3K, "Not from Houston, but I Rap-A-Lot, pack the gat a lot, the flav's bout to drop..."

VOLS FINNA GET THAT SEARS TROPHY, NIGGAS (oops! Big J's gonna jump me)

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Yo, i been reading i just ain't wanted 2 get involved with any of these beefs i don't even know whose against who its fuckin confusing. But anywayz, the subject changes so fast, shit! But basketball's always a good thing 2 talk about. I play 2, yeah Manny im not just some lil bitch whos all talk and...ah fuck it i'll be nice. have a good trip or wtv ure doing manny lol. But yeah i play ball i play center/forward..its the bessst sport. But y'all get pissed when others change the subject lol and now look.
Well anyway i don't have much else 2 say, later ppl

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

oh Willis you seem to become stupider each time you post. for one that that comparison to timbaland beats and a pamplet was so damn corny, id rather listen to nas rap(with out the music i guess) than just listen to beats. and second i say if i heard white boys usin that shit id get at em but we are behind computers so mr lawyer put two and two togeather. and now i see your tryin to prove me wrong in sports, thats a no no son i know everything about basketball so dont go there. damnit i gotta go again right before i get started too.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Yo H Triple K. How ya feelin' nigga? Glad to see ya back up on this thread. Still givin' to them dudes too! It's entertaining shit my brother. I know you battlin' with a lot of folks but I'm gonna sit back and observe. I don't got the energy and most definitely lack your level of wit to help you out partner. Besides, you handlin' yo shit just fine nigga. On top of that, I can't hate Big J or the Best. Even though they bash the south, them niggaz is cool. R-Son is a sour nigga but 3.16 and my dog Qoolout are definitely str8. Hey y'all want to know some shit? I copped Nas' "I Am" this afternoon at a used disc spot. This heah thread influenced me to check that some of that old shit out and open up my mind. I listened to the entire joint and I gotta be true to y'all, especially to my east coast dogs. If I take out about 5 or 6 of the tracks, it's actually a decent effort. "Nas Is Like" is pretty dope and the Biggie and Pac tribute is str8 also. That shit "Money Is My Bitch" (which I have heard before) sucks and as most know, since I posted them lyrics earlier. By the way I also picked up some other old shit. Eazy's "It's On 187Um Killa" (I love that "Real Muthaphuckin' G's" shit) and Geto Boys' "Geto Boys". I wanted that C&C Music Factory shit Hillis, but our boy R-Son musta copped the last one.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 06, 2001.

Come on Hillis, I can't let you say anything bad about my baby Beyonce'. You know I'm feelin the words and that beat. Even y'all who don't like R&B gotta admit that that's a tight beat. I hear what you saying about Shaq, but how good would he be if they called him everytime he, walked, fouled, and all that other stuff he get's away with. But I do admit he has skill. Still I sahout out AI. As far as Pac being east...he's my fave of all time. He was from the east and just happened to join a label that was in the west. Like Snoop with No Limit. But on the 4real, I'll admit, even if Pac was from Mars, I'd probably be trying to explain how the East could claim him. And B.I.G. did spit that line first, I remembered as soon as I posted that last joint, but Lil Kim did say it, too. It was on a Mase song. R-Son tryin to be the new Manny y'all. Ha ha. If the site is weak, and you post here and read the post here...what does that make you?

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

Qoolout, no disrespect, but them lyrics by yo baby was supspect. "Thought I would be (insert term here) without you, but I (insert term that shows she's not the first term here)." And do that 20 times. But that's ok, cuz D-Child is HOUSTON representin, straight outta HECTIC TEXAS so they ain't worried bout lyrics. As usual, multiple platinum plaques for DA SOUTH...

Big J, first off I said a pamphlet of Nas lyrics. You would have to read that shit, if you can... I know yo dumb ass is used to books on tape, but this pamphlet must be read. Maybe ya mama can read it to you, "dun." Second, I didn't ask which one you wanted. I asked which one would sell more? Damn, maybe you can't read... You know the answer, bitch.

Wassup Bama, big baby! 3:16, hell yeah! Qoolout, keep it real! Big J, get off stupid! Lox, where you at? You off findin a place to cry when them Canes go down to DEM VOLS???!!! I understand, cuz. KEEP IT DIRTY, WHODIES AND WHODIETTES!!!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 06, 2001.

Q, you might have a chance with B, but too bad her dad doesnt let her date lol. oh and theres so many clips of shaq fouling the 5 time defensive player of the year, it aint even funny. oh and mutombo blocked one of shaqs shots too and shaqs did do anything to mutombo on the defensive end.

Willis, you fool, pamplet, to a cd is no comparison dumbass id rather have the cd too bitch. thats why i evened it out dumbass. And i read just fine since i had you gone for about a week thinkin of how to come back son. your disses dont have nothin on mine. Bama i had you all wrong, you aint like your dogg willis. and once again willis no one up here has used the phrase "FRESH" in about 15 years kid. i jut saw Nas's new video for the first time. it was alright but its not as pop as gayz. fuck man on that one song on the violater 2.0 cd they wasted such a good beat on memphis bleek so it made the song corny (thats right willis it had a good beat and bad delivery and even lyrics so the song sucked).

and Q, ill make sure one of my next post has you rollin.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

LOL...forget both of y'all. B's song is tight and Mr. Knowles is str8 with me...LOL.

Big, you had me going with that last post, talking bout you would want the CD too, that's why you evened it out...but well, you had me going to H3K with the books on tape thing. If you two did a calabo, that joint would be hilarious!!!

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

What up y'all. I was chillin and then this idea came to me. Most may already know that at times, I'm on some different stuff. You are about to witness one of them times. This post isn't nothing but fun, so don't take it as a diss.

You know how Eminem is always calling out B Spears, or Nsync, or C Aguliera? That's Hillis, plus Em is always saying something controversial. Steph, the only female, she is Eve. Cause she's just tryin' to make it in a man's world and everybody on the joint is qool with her, just like all are qool with Eve. Big J, he is B.I.G. He likes B.I.G. plus B.I.G said some funny stuff too. That would make Best, Nas because they are boys as B.I.G and Nas were (I think). 3:16, he is Bleek, cause he likes Jay and Bleek caught beef with Nas; 3 caught it with Best. Bama, he gotta be Scarface cause everyone seems to be cool...I mean qool with Face; plus he reps the South as does Bama. R-Son, y'all know he is 50 cents, trying to come on the joint dissin for no reason. LOX, he's kinda funny too, but he will rep if he has too (already had beef with Hillis, but it's squashed) so I'll say he is Styles. LOX is my boy, so that makes me Jada. See I (Qool) spit the realness like Kiss does. Everything I've said on here, I've backed it up and I may come with some "switch up on ya stuff" too (like when I said Beyonce' is my girl, which she is or with this post) and I'll bring it too a fool if I catch beef, just ask Manny. LOL. Naw, me and Manny qool, but since I had beef with him at one time, he gotta be Beans. Plus Beanie be bringin it to peeps for seeminly no reason (Canibust). All the vets on here will remember Don Was. He had some entertaining stuff to say, but stuff got a little out of hand on here (with him and Manny) so Don retired. LOL. Hey, come on back Don. Hollywood, I think you said you were going down to Atl. We all str8 with Hollywood so you are Jermaine Dupree. J Dolo changed his name up a few times and he's qool with everybody, so J is Puff, or Diddy. Just be about having fun, PD and JD. Okay, I think that's everybody. If anyone disagrees with the person I put em' with, tell me who I should have put you with and why. And if I'm not Jada, explain that too. I told y'all I be lunchin some time. LOL Holla. My bad if I left anybody out; let me know if I did. Oh yeah, that clown that Hillis chased away a long time ago, who is trying to make a comeback...lol...Chino XL. Y'all know why.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 06, 2001.

TWENTY YEARS OLD BABY! This muthafucker aint in his teens no more! YEAH! I'ma go clubbin tonight, get my groove on, and pull some birds (British expression, club culture is VERY different here).

Now I got that outta my system, I gots to address Q. Dude, I must say that I do agree with the alias's you got us all, I dont know if J Dolo would like P.Diddlydiddlydiddly though cos he kinda sucks. But the other thing I wanted to say to y'all was (and you gonna find it suprising after reading all my posts up on here) I DO NOT HATE NAS! He has just dissapointed me straight up. After having the Blueprint, Run Come Save Me (Roots Manuva; I'm still reppin him), and Yo! Bum Rush... in my CD player, I decided to pop It Was Written back in. It went something like this; Skip, The Message, skip, skip, skip, skip, skip, Affirmative Action, skip, skip, Suspect, skip, skip, If I Ruled The World, skip, eject. And I could have done the same thing with I am... and Nastradamus, cos I got all of 'em. I kept buying them cos I wanted Nas to come back up top again. But he aint! I had to listen to Illmatic just to get over it. Non-star-damus has only got 3 tight-ish joints (Project Windows, Shoot 'em Up, and New World). I really really really want the Jay beef to wake him up. This is good for rap, now we got 2 big names at the top. Not 1 big name, and 1 "used to be big" name. Nas has kinda been like Marlon Brando. Started with a spark (Godfather, On The Waterfront), and now aint doing shit. Like my man Marlon said himself "I could have been a contender!"

Seein as its gone from sport to Basketball. Yeah, its the best sport in the world, bar footbal (or Soccer as y'all might say), then I got to say that the MVP will go to either KG, AI, or Kobe. Unless the NBA decides to get sentimental and give to to Jordan (he aint my pick this time round), and because of the lack of D, I dont expect Carter to get it.

Y'all can stop talkin' bout Beyonce. She told me she dont like none of y'all and she wants to spend the rest of her days with me. HAHA!

"They call me Cham-pagne-hovah/wake up with a hangover/When y'all think the game's over/do the same thing over/Still with the same soldiers"

Y'all my mans (and girl)!


-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 07, 2001.

Yo! I just wanted to point out that this is the tightest thread out at the moment. I just looked at another one about producers, and they dont get one post a week! DAMN!

Beyonce Knowles "si molto bella"


-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 07, 2001.

3:16 is on the money. This thread is insane. But still nobody's answered me about Li'l Jon and Outkast?? What's Dre's beef?

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Re: Dre's beef - On the grill?

-- K-reg (drelocation@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

Seriously, go find yourself a Text-to-Speech voice emulator off the net and bang some of the text on this thread through it. It takes flattens out the flow but picks up on the phonetics.
Forget about Dre, or didn't we already do that.

-- K-reg (drelocation@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

cool Q. ah B.I.G, Nas, Jada, Styles. imagine that crew. heh J-dolo my right hand man lol. I remember when i posted once as "Big Jon Studd"(real nick name) damnit the raptors lost to the bucks last night. peace

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

oh and Timbaland is from southern(i think) VA, Norfolk.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

ahaha Q i liked ure little analogy

and happy bday 3:16

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

Dre is NOT a grillshilla!!

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 07, 2001.

Hey, missy elliot is straight outta VA too, guess VA aint so bad.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

ah you want to predict the winners in the nba?

MVP:AI, Carter, or damnit,punk ass kobe 6th man: Tim Thomas(bucks) Most improved: nick van exel (nuggets) Rookie of the year: Jamal Tinsly(Pacers) Defensive player: im lookin at Mutombo goin for 6

My man fat joe got embarassed on 106 and Park the other day. everyone was cheering and then he said "who all has the album" then it got quiet then he turned around real quick and said alright, LOL.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 07, 2001.

You guys want to talk about B-Ball so I'll say something! The Champs- Lakers,they got a dynasty going now.They too hard to beat.

The MVP- Right now I gotta say Kobe but that will probrobly change.Once AI get in season mode and Shaq reclaims his thrown.

The 6th man- Too soon to tell

The sleeper team- Goldenstate Warriors, My man Larry Huges steped up and they got J-Rich with the madd hopps.Young guns,could do some damage in the west.

The most improve team- Timberwolves by far.These guys might have a chance of not playing the spurs in the 1st round.A possible contender.

Most feared team in the playoffs- Sacramento.They haven't missed a beat sence White chocolate left.Trust me nobody wants to play this team in the playoffs.They almost elminated the Lakers two years strait.

I know the east was kinda left out of my picks.But it's the west year to shine.I like the celtics as a good #4 seed.Looks like Grant is injured again!T-Mac is good but they are looking at a fist round elimination if their team is not healthy.New York's biological clock is running out of time this could be the last year they can make a good run at the championship before free angency starts to kick in.Millwalkee seems to be a dominante team but I haven't seem them play yet this year.Look at this, for the first time the two out the three top teams are not the Jazz and the Spurs!You gotta love that the young gunns finaly are stepping up. Thanks Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 08, 2001.

DAMN! This is turning into a fuckin basketball thread! What are y'all thinkin', aint you got nothing to say about rap? Lets get this shit back on track... I dont remember if its been said on this page already, but the Nas/Jay-Z beef all started when Nas spat a line on Nastradamus sayin' summin' like "you wanna ball till you fall, I can help you with that". Memphis bleek took it as a diss, cos he used to say that shit, and he tryed to diss Nas back. Hova stepped in and said, kid, this is Nas, if you lose, you're gone, i'ma takeover. Y'all probably know that, ubt at least its gettin' off basketball! DAMN! But if we gonna talk bout sports, Lennox Lewis will fight Tyson in April. If any of you think that Tyson is gonna win, you dumb!

What the fuck can I do to get the rest of y'all back to rap, uhhh... OK, i already done it up here, but what are y'all favourite albums of all time?

Get back on the subject fellas! Peace

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 08, 2001.

Rookie of the year... Jamal Tinsley (Pacers)

-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 08, 2001.

I think I can take both Nas and Hova out easily. Watch.

Rich white bitch, triple-B cipher beautiful / drop that stitch, lick my ass and be dutiful / kevlar skullcap, hit em with the boom bap / this bitch be living larger than Jermaine Dupri's tooth gap / i like it rough, ain't no way I'm gonna baby ya / pussy clean, y'all can't see my outer labia / i live hip hop, got no trace of negriphobia / yall flabby old fucks betta watch me like ya sodium / intake / ya neck breaks / glut ya gullet like a cheesesteak / cute cracka that can rap, rock ya party like it was Festivus / who cares if Glenn McDonald secretly objects to this / behold this pale hoe / or taste the foe-foe / spoiled brat lolita kickin in ya front doe....

-- Brittany Brooke Breitenmoser (drinkchampagnewithtigerwoods@countryclubs.com), December 08, 2001.

well rap does need more misogynistic bollocks - can't have enough stupidity in the world - need more to go around - after all it's xmas - spread the joy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

are you all so dumb ?

-- (sean@sean31.freeserve.co.uk), December 08, 2001.

I hope you weren't referring to my cipher as misogynist, sean-john, because that one was for my ladies, from a lady.

Best, Brittany

-- Brittany Brooke Breitenmoser (drinkchampagnewithtigerwoods@countryclubs.com), December 08, 2001.

This girl can't be serious, can she? I'm not gonna lie, that rhyme had me laughing. I got so many questions for you I don't know where to start. I don't know about the Tyson thing, but you are probably right. He may lose, but I'm pulling for him. I can't help it, that's who I came up on. And we gonna get it back to rap in just a sec. But I gotta mention a famous Tyson line. "I'ma eat your heart. I wanna eat your children!" LMAO. I can't help but laugh whenever I think about that man saying that. That proves he won already. But on the 4real, back to rap, I heard the "Ether" joint for the 1st time without all the bleeping out that the radio does. It was tight and the Pac sample was a good idea, funny too. Funniest line maybe is, "Is he Dame diddy, Dame daddy, or Dame dummy? Oh, I get it, you Biggie and he's Puffy." LOL. Best albums gotta be Pac's Me Against the World and Ice Cube's Death Certificate. And speaking of disses, Cube came with a hard one on that CD for NWA. Remember? Holla. Oh yeah, Brittany, I wanna hear one about you and your girls next. LOL

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

Hwve always wondered what this thread was about. It goes on and on, comes back every day, every week, every month. Its title is boring, though I don't know what a Throw-Down is.

I'm still not sure what it's all about but it's definitely boring records and stuff.

-- the pinefox (pinefox@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

My I thought the twin bitches liked to ramble but golly gee willickers aint nothing like that.

-- Mr Muffins (divergingmoo@yahoo.co.uk), December 08, 2001.

Ok woman, what the hell was that(oh and nice email adress btw lol)

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

That Hillis 3K didn't win best ILM poster proves that no one's paying enough attention; no offense to whoever won it.

-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 08, 2001.

First off, if you think Jay z's last 2 albums were good then you have to be smokin crack. I spent 14.99 on each of those #@$!ed up albums. There were probably two good songs on each one. Nas, has just been out of the game. Nas was good back in the days, and has made some bad ass singles, but that is all they are. Nastrodamus wasn't very good. The Blueprint finally did Jay-z justice(reminds me of his ol' school shit)Back when he actually had talent. QB's finest sucked, so I can only hope that Nas can retaliate with an album as good as the blueprint. After pac and Biggie, rap has been on a downward spiral of just repetative beats and samples. A hand full of rappers can actually hold there own in the studio. (Outlawz, DMX, JHova, Nas, Ja Rule, Jermain Dupri, and a few others that I can't think of off the top of my head.)

-- shaxes jazz (shaxes@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.

yo first of all that shit jay said on the takeover wasnt all that hot because he didnt use any punchlines against nas , all he did was speak about personal stuff and now everyone is hopping on jay's d!#k. I dont know if yall have heard this nas joint named "ether" that shit is fire, it shows that nas is stillmatic.

-- the grim reaper (tulile17@aol.com), December 08, 2001.

LOL, R-son=50 cent, hahahahaha

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 08, 2001.


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 09, 2001.

Qoolout, me and my girls are working on a diss track, "Chino XL Eats A Quart Of Creatine Daily To Stay Huge But Sacrifices Optical Health And Penis Alignment In Doing So", as I speak. I'll holla when we're ready! Thanks for the support!

Oh, look at "the pinefox!" He's so CALM! Look how CALM he is all the time! Nothing gets to him! He's so CALM! This makes him cute, funny, and impervious to everything! Mister 'pinefox', when I think of you, I visualize a huge, dusty living room with no furniture except a coat rack, upon which sits a talking owl in a tophat that says nothing but POPPYCOCK! POPPYCOCK! YARBLES! all day, and thinks this is totally OK in the year 2001. What a CLARK. Hahaha!

-- Brittany Brooke Breitenmoser (drinkchampagnewithtigerwoods@countryclubs.com), December 09, 2001.

thee foxy one as prof yaffle - didn't u say that elsewhere ?

-- (sean@sean31.freeserve.co.uk), December 09, 2001.


-- the grim reaper (tulile17@aol.com), December 09, 2001.

i wonder if any ilm regulars read this thread anymore.

-- brains (Jacob.Becker@reed.edu), December 09, 2001.

Damn I haven't blessed this thread in a minute dun, Differential Equations is killin me!! Yo, "STILLMATIC" is MAD HOT!! I heard the whole phucking album today (the bootleg version, but with all the factual tracks). Yo, K-Slay said the shyt should get 6 mics. All I have to say is that Nasty is back!!

Oh and Adrian....LOL, I am not going to argue with you anymore dun because you and I are on different levels about hip hop. You are still stuck on the fiction of a "rapper" being rated on how much his album sales. Like I said before "Illmatic" is considered one of the best hip hop albums of all time and it only went gold. "Nastradamus" is considered to be one of Nas's wackest albums and it went 3X platinum. "Nas doesn't give a phuck about sales, wo is already rich"- me. This arguement should not continue because no matter what you or I say neither of our views are going to change. But remember this while you continue to bash Nas I bet you have each and everyone of his albums......YEAH I KNOW

One more thing "umbra" don't disrespect QueensBridge or any part of Queens if you have never been there cause I bet you wouldn't do it in any dudes face. It is very simple to preach behind a computer screen, but trust me cats will eat you alive dun, and that's real!! I know you are going to pose this wack ass question of why am I bashing the south?... because I attend school in the south and I tell mad heads all the time down here that their style in my opinion is wack......MAD WACK!! Dudes in the south always talkin' about how they got shyt (rap game) on lock.....LOL, but almost everytime, I hear a dun blazin' some of that "supposed to be wack azz eastcoast music". U niggaz need a mad reality check.


Ah niggaz check out "One Mic" and "Destroy and Rebuild" on STILLMATIC those joints are the truth!! 1

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 09, 2001.

Hey Hillis you've always got Vandy!


-- Tracer Hand (tracerhand@yahoo.com), December 09, 2001.

I gotta go with my man best on this one, its pointless arguing with hillis any longer since he fails to bring anything new to the table.

and off topic, i just created my first CD.

1. Sway and Tech: The Anthem

2. Jadakiss: We gonna make it

3. Mobb Deep: Shook Ones

4. Ja Rule, Missy Elliot, Tweet: Ex

5. DMX: Tales from the Darkside

6. Nore and Styles: Come Thru

7. Nas: NY State of Mind

8. Biggie Smalls: Skys the Limit

9. Twista and Drag-on: Get on it(i think thats the name)

10. Ja Rule: How many will die with me

pretty tight eh? haha

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 09, 2001.

...jay did his thang on "takeover"...everything he said was true...and he definitely put it down...that man got mad skillz... "There's only so long fake thugs can pretend,Nigga/you ain't live it you witnessed it from your folks pad/You scribbled in your notepad and created your life/I showed you your first tec on tour with Large Professor(Me, that's who!)/Then I heard your album bout your tec on the dresser/So yeah I sampled your voice, you was usin it wrong/You made it a hot line, I made it a hot song/And you ain't get a coin nigga you was gettin fucked and/I know who I paid God, Serchlite Publishing/..."

his flow aint no joke...it's mad ill...and at the time, he could really get that off cuz nas fell off...hard...but his new shyt "ether"...man...that joint is off da hingEz...nas did his thing...and like jay, everything nas said was true too... "back in '88 you was runnin to ya building/callin my crib and i ain't even give you my numbers"..."is he Dame Diddy, Dame Daddy, or Dame Dummy/oh i get, you Big and he Puffy"..."Roc-a-fella died of AIDs/that was the end of his chapter/and that's the nigga you chose to name ya company after"..."fox had you sprung/had ya head all in her puss/what you think you gettin girls now cuz of ya looks/NEGRO please"..."how much of Big's rhyme gonna come out ya fat lip"...

nas throws down in this joint...the whole "STILLMATIC" album is butta anyways...the ill story teller is back...

the whole essence of mc battlin' is back...and no one should begin to believe that it might move to the streets...this beef is gonna stay lyrical...we already lost great assets to hip hop...we don't need two more...

-- ~dat jErzey chick~ (jerzeypeachez@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

All who haven't said anything about my "alias list," holla. Let me know what you think. 3:16, we can leave sports out of this, but let's leave my baby Beyonce' out of it too. But first I gotta say, D.C. had a good weekend. Wizards won it and them Redskins won. LOL. Big J, 50 cents had me laughing too. Hey y'all I just heard a new joint from my man Jada with Bubba. Bubba's part is okay, but once again Kiss flows; I'll hit y'all with a quote later. All you new comers, welcome, but let's try to post something that's makes sense, this means keep that nonsense to yourself. Thanx. LOX...lol, stick yourself...lol.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Sean: WTF are you talking about?

Big J: You only put 10 tracks on the CD? You wasted like 20 good minutes, kikko! Unless you really ghetto and you need to cuff the budget 50-minute ones, haha! I bet you gotta padlock for your shelf of the fridge too! I bet you still fuck with Highlights magazine on the daily! Haha J/P. Your favorite dimepiece assasin on the mic, Britt.

-- Brittany Brooke Breitenmoser (drinkchampagnewithtigerwoods@countryclubs.com), December 10, 2001.

Aiyo, I was in my dorm chillin' last night listening to Stillmatic, and I kept gettin mad headz coming to my room asking me to hear that "new Nas", at least 25-30 heads. Yo duns is jocking the shyt out of dude. It is funny though because just a couple of months ago it was these same dolos praising the shyt out of Jay Z, talking about how he destroyed Nas on "Takeover". Loyal Jay Z fans huh.......??? Oh yeah anyone see Jay Z on MTV Unplugged? Why did dun only have females in the audience? Is it because dun only spits for the ladies....LMAO or that "real recognize real" and duns heard "Ether" and now know Jay Z's true identity. One more thing, I have to address "dat jErsey chick". You can't possibly be serious about everything on Jay Z's "Takeover" being true....LOL. I'm not going to front ma, the diss was nice, but it was solely based on opinions.

"Yo arms to short to box with GOD/ I don't kill soloists I take out squads"-Nas-"You're the man"


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Ok heres another person trying to fuck with me so its quote time "Another amateur tryin to damage the pedigree of the B.I.G you knows its me"-B.I.G

listen up woman, i only put 10 tracks on it cuz i didnt feel like downloading a bunch more, that takes time bitch, and thats something i dont have. andi had at least 30 minutes left on the cd.and if you werent blonde you would know that usualy people who make cd's make more than one. oh and with a freestyle you posted before im amazed you had the balls(yeah she probably does have balls) to come back up in here.

Jayz unplugged: hes just trying to copy LL, likes he been copying any rapper that ever lived.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

What up peeps? Been away for a minute but i've been lookin at the post though. Ya turned to sports for a minute. Shaq is the best, PERIOD. He's the only reason why they switched the rules so that you can play zone defense now against him by doubling him even if he doesnt have the ball, hoping that there was a way to stop Shaq by changin the rules, but still gets his 27+points a game, 10+rebounds a game, and 2.5+blocks a game and a 3 assist a game (very high for a center). Jordan shows that he still has it, he may have lost a step or two as far as hops and explosiveness, but he's still one of the top 10 highest scorers in the game, and he has the know-all for the game, and he's carryin the weight of a crappy team on his shoulders. Vince is nice, but until he learns how to play man to man defense, he's not up to the same level as Kobe, who has been All-defense 1st team two years in a row. Vince can block shots but gets burned everytime he goes against Kobe, T-Mac, Ray Allen (UConn baby baby!), and even people like Allen Houston, Sprewell, and Rose. Kobe is only 23 years old and is already one of the Top 10 players in the league, and he's not even in his prime yet.(HE"S GONNA BE SICK AS FUCK WHEN HE HIT HIS PRIME) Shaq is the most dominate, but KG is the best all- around player (Sorry Duncan fans, but KG has more versatility and has it all) AI will eventually get his ring, but will have to get pass Kobe and Shaq first. Back to rap, did ya hear Jay-z's response to ether? Its's on hiphopgame.com. Say's Blueprint 2 out next year, see ya in November. Mobb's tape is ill, but i'm not feelin that song wit 112, but other than that, the imfamy is sick. I've already said Stillmatic is ill, but did anyone hear the new WU yet? Camron became the second nicest MC in the ROC and he just signed on (i heard him freestylin the other night wit others from the ROC on the radio) What up Q? You my mans and all, but I dont like shiny suit man. I've said i like many different styles of music but that dont mean that i like ALL MUSIC DONE BY EVERYONE, but u'r still my mans though. Big j keep em poppin. Bama's the illest down southern on this site. He expresses his opinions about the east coast without sounding way too ignorant like some other are (i dont call out names cuz i'm not in a mood for beef right now). LOX, Styles LP is comin, so patience is a virtue, man. Is it true that the ROC is tryin to sign M.O.P.?, or was that just an internet rumor? i've been on various sites and some said that it's true.I know for a fact that Cormega is signed to them though. Anyone hear the "Ghost" by Styles? It's sick. Anyway, i'm out, but be back soon. Shout outs to Qoolout, Best, 3:16, Big J, Hillis 3000, LOX (did u hear the new disses by Jada/Beans?) One

-- j-dolo (J_dolo@nvctc.com), December 10, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Wassup J-Dolo? Thanks for the comments, dog. Yo Hillis! How ya feelin' playa'? LSU shut down the run and that was it. Get back out on dis heah thread nigga. We need you to stir this shit up again. Yo, Vince C. musta read some of us (including me) bustin' on his game last week. That nigga got off this weekend with back to back 42 point efforts. They lost to the Suns but VC did his part. Regardless, I'm feelin' J-Dolo's comments on Carter overall. The 2- spot is the deepest position in the NBA as far as talent and star power is concerned. Fuck, who the hell will make the All-Star team in the east? Iverson, Carter, Allen, Stackhouse, McGrady and of course MJ all have legitimate claims for a spot on the roster. Paul Pierce has to be on the team too. He might be listed as a small forward, but that dude is pretty much a guard. Cats like Houston and Reggie Miller don't even have a chance to get on that team. I'll give it to you New York niggaz on hoops. Y'all definitely can claim to be mecca of that sport. As for football, ain't nobody got nothin' on the dirty as far as pigskin is concerned. Anyway, y'all like that new Nas video?

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 10, 2001.

Lox, cuzzin! I would respond to you but I'm too busy eating my own words... (FUCK LSU!)

B.B.B. (aka dat Britney/champagne chick), I find it hard to believe you're a rich girl. Maybe, but your act is too hard to swallow.

TracerHand! I always got Vandy... in chess...

Big J, just cuz I enjoy fuckin with ya young dumb ass, I'm gonna say your CD is subpar. And if the song with Twista and Drag On is from Ruff Ryders Vol 2, then it's "Twisted Heat." I haven't brought anything new to the table, eh? Once again, your dumb ass missed the point. I wasn't trying to bring something new, I was just defending my region. But damn, you still in high school. You ain't been broke open yet. Maybe when you get to Georgetown, you'll learn how to recognize and break down arguments. Until then, keep up the sophomoric responses...

Or is the sophomore from Southern the one who's sophomoric? Well, The Best you're definitely better than Big J (the only decent thing he ever came up with was "Willis"). That ain't sayin much cuz that nigga had to resort to callin me a White boy, and you joined in. How weak is that? And as for your "behind the computer/I won't say shit to a Queens nigga's face" garbage... If a nigga from Queens, Chi-Town, LA, Timbucktu, Kalamazoo, Hell, whatever, come around me dissin DA DIRTY, I'll tell him to his face he can take his bitch ass back to his borough. And if I'm ever in Queens, and a nigga calls DA SOUTH wack and I hear it, I'll be leadin a group of "dunnies" to defend DOWN BOTTOM, and I won't give a fuck what a Queers Bitch says, and you can believe that. Check out the quote from Steve Harvey...

"Don't let the WB and these goddam suits fool you... I will act project-ish..."

Y'all QB niggas down wore off Nas' dick, nuts, and ass. What y'all gon ride next? His toes? Weak ass boys. And for every Nas album I supposedly have, The Best, I know you got 5 DIRTY albums in yo collection. And when you go clubbin in BATON ROUGE, I bet you jump around and get buck every time a DIRTY DIRTY cut starts to play. And thanks for all that shit about Nastradamus goin 3X platinum, cuz know Big J will listen to reason...

Hey Big J. You payin attention? The Best clarifies that WHITE BOYS dominate all parts of hip-hop. How the fuck did BOOBOODAMUS go 3X platinum? I ain't buy that trash. You think three million niggas sent that shit to that status. Hell naw! It's them muthafuckin WHITE BOYS who did that shit. And I'll tell you why...

A) White boys know about ILLMATIC too, and they ride Nas dick (what's left of it) like you QB faggots because of one album

B) Nas' dumb ass got mad because everybody got a bootleg copy of Nastradamus off of mp3s (which had everyone anticipating the album), so the ignorant nigga remakes it and everybody who bought it, expected the bootleg version, but unfortunately got the booboo version. So you got three million pissed off Nas fans who wanted "Poppa Was a Player" and "Blaze a 50" but got "You Owe Me" and "Nasty Nas to Escobar..." And 2 million of them pissed off fans were WHITE, Big J! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMIN OUT OF MY MOUTH???!!!

Bama, Qoolout, J-Dolo, 3:16, Hollywood... Keep doin how you do. Ain't nobody got shit on y'all boys. The Best, work on ya shit. Big J, eat a dick (not Nas' this time - a different one...) Lox, I hope Miami goes down and on their coffin we can lay a bed of Roses...


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 10, 2001.



-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.


-- j-dolo (J_dolo@nvctc.com), December 10, 2001.

DAMN! I step off the thread for 1 weekend and look what happens! The muthafuckin' rookies are tryin to takeover! DAMN! At least we kinda gettin' off b-ball for a minute. Who the fuck is this Brittany gal! Thats a nice name you got Ms Breitenmoser. Sounds German. I sugest you invest in an alias (something like "Rich Whitey", or "Cracker Bitch"). You lines had me chucklin' though, you write all that yourself? You just like the white lil' Kim. This shit is gonna have to pick up again when STILLmatic officially drops (over here the bootleg shit comes out after the official shit drops!). We gettin' mad "one-timers" up on here. My theory is that they come up here every time the "conversation" slacks a little. Take a look up the thread. Pick the talk up and they fall off. "Cracker Bitch", you doing OK though, I think you got what it takes to become a vet. HAHA!

Number 1 sport in the world today, BOXING. Lennox Lewis vs Mike Tyson (sometime in April) hmmm... Refferee will stop the fight in favour of Lennox in the 8th round. Number 2 sport in the world today, FOOTBALL. (sorry, Soccer) England to win their group in the cup. Number 3 sport in the world today, BASKETBALL. Anyone seen the Blazers recently? Num... DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!! I cant stop talkin' bout MUTHAFUCKIN' SPORT! FUCK!!!!!!! CUNT!!!!!!!!!!!! You know I nearly punched a dude in a wheelchair the other day!

While I'm here i'ma rep some more UK shit. "Roots Manuva" (man, if none of y'all cop this... DAMN!) "ADAM F" ("Kaos", tight as fuck), "So Solid Crew" (aint too deep, but got tight beats), "Oxide & Neutrino" (part of So Solid, damn, they got 33 members!), and if y'all like a bit of R'n'B, "Craig David" (been on Leterman, hmmm... tight as fuck though. No Sisqo shit). DJ: Tim Westwood (acts like a prick, and got shot in the ass in Brixton, but knows what he doing. Used to do a "rap exchange" with Funk Flex).

Yo! I still want to know your top ten (or as many as y'all can manage) albums. At least we talkin bout rap.

Big shout outs to all the veterans... Qool (don't worry kid, i'ma leave Beyonce outta this, i'll go tell her now!). Hollywood (are you satisfied with "pop"?). Bama (keep doing what you're doing). Hillis (YEAH!). J-Dolo (Nas cant get the upperhand until the 18th, not over here anyway). Best (I might diss you again on the 18th, then again I might not, we'll see how it goes huh?). Big J (damn, a lot of the time I think you just talk shit, but i'ma shout you out anyway). Manny (even though he retired). Steph (my girl from Canada. I might be working there next year). LOX (I'MA DO THIS IN CAPITALS KID, JUST FOR YOU).......


-- 3:16 (s0106495@chelt.ac.uk), December 10, 2001.

"I am the truest, name a rapper I ain't influenced" Heard it when I was slleping, head that jay z and Coccafella records wanted beef" Dick suckin lips (Jay Z), why don't you late the great veteran live!?" ......Nas- Ether.

Ether easily takes the record for the BEST SONG IN 2001. It makes "Takeover" , which was an alrtight song, seem like garbage. If this song is any indication of the new Stillmatic album, then I definfently think he might even OUTDOO "Illmatic".

Also, I heard the new Stilmatic album might get pushed back to Early January. Anyone hear about that?


-- Bwrecks (buzz@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

That quite alright 3:16, All beef i have is over(maybe not if that other person decides they want some).

Yo LOX, thats really fucked up. Gayz is a weak ass son of a bitch and i would like to see the lox and nas combine forces, that would be the shit.

and id hate to keep getting back to the best sport in the world, but my man Vince carter is the next MJ/Dr J, im tellin you and kobe probably is in his prime now cause i cant see him getting any better. oh and look for sacramento to beat the lakers during playoff time, im tellin you.

I heard either a couple of days ago, it was sweet. i liked that part about dame

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Yo 3:16! 'Sup killa? Per your request dog...

10) Dre - The Chronic

9) Cube - Death Certificate 8) UGK - Ridin' Dirty

7) Jay Z - Reasonable Doubt

6) Three Six Mafia - The End

5) Mobb Deep - The Infamous

4) Biggie - Life After Death

3) Outkast - ATLiens

2) Biggie - Ready to Die

1) 'Pac - Me Against the World

Honorable Mention: Nas-Illmatic, Wu Tang-36 Chambers, Lox-We Are the Streets, Dre-Chronic 2001, Snoop-DoggyStyle, Outkast- Southernplayalistic..., Bone-Creepin'On Ah Come Up, Eminem-Marshall Mathers LP

I know y'all are shakin' your heads 'bout 3-6 and UGK in the top ten, but I can't help but love that shit.

-- Bama (bamabrah@yahoo.com), December 10, 2001.

Lox, my man. A) Go Nebraska! B) I don't give a fuck about 2Pac's taste in music. I just liked his shit the most, and I'll still rep DA DIRTY. The only way I'll be like "Damn. DA SOUTH sucks" is if Jesus Himself came down from heaven and said "H3K, DA SOUTH sucks..."

Hillis 3000's top 10 list

1) Outkast - Southernplayalistic 2) 2Pac - All Eyez On Me 3) 2Pac - Makaveli 4) UGK - Ridin Dirty 5) Juvenile - 400 Degreez 6) Three 6 Mafia - Mystic Styles 7) Biggie - Life After Death 8) Master P - Ghetto Dope 9) Fiend - There's One In Every Family 10) Dayton Family - FBI

There you have it. Oh by the way, Big J. The fact that you've squashed your "beef" with me. I'll just quote Dark Man X on that one...

"We both know you pussy, but I ain't gon say nothin..."

I'm out this beeyatch, "dunnees"

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 10, 2001.

Top ten albums of all-time no order:

1)Life after Death-Biggie 2)All Eyes On Me-Pac

3)Ready to Die-Biggie

4)Illmatic-Nas 5)Reasonable Doubt-Jay-Z

6)It's Dark and Hell is Hot-DMX

7)E.1999 Eternal-Bone Thugs

8)The Chronic-Dr.Dre

9)Ice Cream Man-Master P

10)Doggystyle-Big Snoop Dogg

Best Center in NBA: Shaq Diesel (Shaquille O'Neal) Best Power Forward: Employee No.8 (Antoine Walker) Best Small Forward: K.G. (Kevin Garnett) Best Shooting Guard: K.B. (Kobe Bryant) Best Point Guard: Stevie Franchise (Steve Francis)

Nas and Jay-Z would be a better battle if Jay-Z would quit running to radio stations and magazines to try and persuade them to not play any of Nas' songs. I think if he really believed he was the "King of N.Y.", he wouldn't try and stop Nas' songs from being played. He seems scared that the public will hear the truth about him and he would lose the little bit of respect that he has left from the streets. I think Nas and Jay-Z are both excellent rappers and both are some of the best lyricists to ever touch the mic, but the way Nas is handling this gives him the upper hand. Nas has not once called a radio station and asked them to stop playing Jay-Z songs. He just sits back and doesn't say anything. He only makes his records and relies on letting the streets do the talking for him and his album is by FAR the most anticipated of the year! But for real, to me, Jada is the nicest out and the Lox are the best rap group out. D-Block Niggas!

Jada: "Beans make you fart/But Kiss really sh*t on niggas" Styles P.: "How can you call yourselves the ROC/When your leader is soft" Sheek Louch: "Keep my name far from your mouth/'Fore they find your body in the woods far from your mouth" and that new nigga Jae Hood: "My jewels is like traffic lights/they never stay one color"

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 10, 2001.

Like I said Reverend Adrian you preach only on the computer dun. Yeah and I bet that you were one of those 3 million wos downloading the bootleg version of Nastradamus back in '99. Oh and for the record I am a second semester junior dun and I can recall only having like 3 "dirty" south....LOL joints in my collection.

One more thing, if the east is so wack why in the hell do we get more airplay on down south radio stations than the south. Oh and why is it that down south "hip pop" receives no airplay on radio stations in the east. Ex.) Ask a "dirty" south head if he knows who Styles from the Lox is, and he will more than likely say yes. Then ask a east coast cat who is Crunchy Black from 3/6 Mafia is and see what his or her reply would be. You see the east runs commercial hip hop and underground hip hop......YEAH I KNOW REVEREND ADRIAN

"Christianity preaching of a white Jesus is poison/ pretender emcees bragging on ice and cheese is posion"-NAS


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Aiyo Reverend Adrian why don't you go back to your October 19, 2001 post. Dun you disgrace me. Don't even type to me anymore FAGGOT AZZ DUDE!!!! FOR REAL FOR REAL WHITE BOY......"kiss my black ass"- HILLIS. "It's only so long that fake thugs can pretend"-Camel

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 10, 2001.

Look I was in the record store yesterday and I look at this state property ad.Now that dosen't seem like much but it is a mixtape made by Roc-a-fella as in Jay-z's Roc-a-Fella.And the headline guys on the fuckin album is Nas,Jadakiss and the rest of the lox!What the hell!I guess I am just dumb but if Nas hates Jay so much and Jada calles Beanie a fat smelly mother fucker why are they on that album with the two guys they so called don't like.It is weird because Jay-z is the one that is going to make a profit off of this album while Nas and Jada get a little cut for their labor.This does not make sence at all why would you put money in the pockets of your enimies literally.You guys have to answer on this.I know you guys don't care about what I say on this board, but come on I want to hear your opinions on this. Holla

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 11, 2001.

Yo LOX whats up? I heard mad exclusives of sheek, styles and the unofficial 4th member of the LOX jae hood (JAY-HOOD). This cat got some skills, but STYLES is the one that really got me wildin out. this nigga ate Beans up on one cut. Beans shoulda never said anything ("Sheek can be mad, Styles can be sad")Styles aint the greatest lyricist but this nigga is really serious about seein Beans in the street.Styles and Nore are some real gangstas and probably some of the only few that would take it to another level other than rap, but i won't speak on that because this is a hip hip post, but atleast they won't apologize to anyone on a two-way. And heads, as far as Jay- z gettin his chain snatched by Fat Joe and the TS that shit is true. Matter of fact, i heard that Nas and Fat Joe was at a recent party (i dont remember who)and showed love towards one another and said to Nas that if Jay wanted his chain back he knows who to come to.But dont sleep on Jay-z, heads. That new song by Jay was by no means a response to ether and we all know lyrically that when Jay do respond to ether he will come harder than that but for now Nas got the upper hand as far as this battle goes(if i said this already my bad),but anyways what up Q, Big J, LOX, Hillis, 3:16, Best, and Bama, and a big major shout-out to my nigga Headrush who's about to be out in 3 days out of Cheshire Correctional in CT (Same jail where Keith Murray was stayin),the block will be ready for you kid, and as a quote from jae hood "we got more crack than sidewalks". From Styles-"Fuck Beanie Seigel!", "How the fuck ya the ROC when your leader is soft?" Holla at ya boy. One

-- J-dolo (j_dolo@nvctc.com), December 11, 2001.

Alright faggot i didnt squash no beef cuz like prodigy said "you aint even in my league you just follow my lead" mother fucker, your post dont deserve responses bitch ass nigga and like jada said "ill see you in hell",and from now on, i wont waste my time provin your ass wrong time after time, me and Best have embarassed your punk ass. you just like fuckin nelly. oh and the beef, to quote nas"i prove you already lost". you dont got shit on me, look back to each my responses nigga, ive crushed you son, its like im 3 and 0 against you in the playoffs, there aint no comin back.

Man i suggest the ROC dont mess with the Lox, even more styles. man he is a scary ass mother fucker with lyrics like "when i walk through the door all the children will shiver" and "while you buy you a chain, i aim at ya brain" and "hes so ganster, yall so pussy, i murder you faggots so yall dont push me", hes truly the hardest rapper thats ever lived, by far. oh and i heard the nelly and eminem got beef with each others, i didnt download the song, but i will. ive lost whatever respect i had for def jam and russel simmons, weak ass niggas. only ones i like are nore(damn why did he join them) and redman.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

daaaamn...a lots been going on. see this is the problem with a thread tha gets so many hits. ure away for a few days and then u go back 2 it and theres like 75 new posts. and its getting long 2 load....someone should start a new thread 2 continue this discussion on...but what IS the discussion anyway? its so varying and gets so off topic. but anywayz its all good.

LOX where'd u hear that bout Jay-Z tryign 2 make arrangements for Nas not to get 5 mics from the source??? thats so fucked up if he thinks he how many mics the source gives matters that much. its the music fuck.....i can't beleive that! but anyway i wanna read it for myself so if u read it online wats the url? thx

That Brittney girl....whoa. lol. she seems 2 be gone but i dunno wat to think of it wuz it a guy pretedning 2 a girl or wuz it some kind of joke or wat??

Yo 3:16, i know craig david hes alrite. a lot of my friends love him so they're always playing his music. but i dunno his music is all about the same thing...girls, girls, girls(lol). and thats it. gets a lil monotonous after a while. but im liking Roots Manuva. wat are some of his better songs? I got another Canadian artist y'all should check out if u don't know him already. Calls himself Solitair. hes from T.O and u should listen his song Easy To Slip. he cowrote Kardinal Offishall's song Bakardi Slang as a matter of fact. anyway hes got something this guy...

well the Canadian girl's out for now lol, later

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Not to come in and change up things but I got a question. Nobody said anything about Prodigy and where he stand in this whole beef thing. I personally think thun is dead on record sales because he got bombed on by Pac, then exposed by Jay, and now screamed on by Nas. Check Destroy & Rebuild on Stillmatic... (fire!) Is dudes really checking for Infamy knowin' than P was wearing a tutu/MJ outfit and didn't get at Jay like Nas did? I was kinda hurt not to see the m.o.b.b. in that BET top 50.

-- Sean Black (DatQBNigga@yahoo.com), December 11, 2001.

This aint gonna be too long, cos i got a shit load of work to do. Steph, I really cant comment on Roots top tracks. Theres somthin for everyone, and without knowing what you really like I cant really say shit.

I still want to hear EVERYONES top 10 albums. c'mon y'all!

I'm still waitin' for the 18th to come by, BELIEVE ME. I WANT NAS TO COME BACK. all I know is y'all are reppin it, and my man keeps yellin "STILLMATIC, STILLMATIC" at me. 1 more week.


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 11, 2001.

Ahhh... work done. Now I can finally take the time to talk all I want. Steph, Craig David aint my "cup of tea" either, but he's UK, so I gots to do what I gots to do. That Rendevous joint is tight though (the remix is better than the original You right too bout this thread needin to start over, damn, do y'all know how long it takes my university computer to load all this shit up? Top Roots Manuva joint in my opinion is Witness, If you like deep lyrics, then Sinny Sin Sins. Otherwise check out Bashment Boogie, and Join The Dots. His first album is tight as fuck as well, I just cant remember the names of the tracks sat in front of a damn computer.

I guess craker bitch aint coming back. Damn shame, HAHA!


If Hova has been tryin to get Nas put down, that is tight. I agree with that. Thing is, if he is doing it, then he just inviting more and more beef from people all over the game. The Source kind of lick his balls to. That dont mean the Blueprint aint deserve them 5-mics, cos it did. But by that logic, Reasonable Doubt should have got 6, straight up.


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 11, 2001.

Q, you like tight lyrics right, maybe this is gonna convince more of y'all to cop Roots Manuva, Run Come Save Me (in all good record stores now) HAHA!

I was raised in a pentecostal Church of God/My father was the deacon, he used to stand preaching/I used to to steal collection, I used to catch a beating/Forgive me Lord, I knew not what I did/I was just a kid, trying to hustle up a quid/Feeling kinda ashamed, riding in the Church right/Bible in my hand, dressed in my sunday best/Reach a Churchyard and I'm feeling depressed/I'm in the midst of the well- dressed, talking 'bout singing, singing/thanks and praise to the king of the Jews/And I'm all confused, 'cos I can't see the sense/Why should I turn the other cheek and get beat?/Ain't no peace without war so who am I?/The faster drives benz, got me looking to the sky/singing soon, very soon, we gonna see the king/Soon oh, very soon, we all gonna be blamed/

Woke up one Sunday, feeling kinda raw/I said "Dad, I don't really want to go Church no more"/Soon as I said shit, I felt a slap to my jaw/He said "Son, as long as your living under my roof/Your gonna heed my interpretation of the truth/And the truth is right here/It's written in this book the Holy Bible/It's the key to survival so you best heed the word"/He said, "Do as I say, not what I do/And you'll see, goodness will follow you"/begrudgingly, I ironed my shirt, polish my shoes/Went to Chruch and I took in their far-out views/with their strange perceptions of Heaven and Hell/To this very day I still fight down their spell/'Cos all that we pray, we still stay poor/With that leaky roof dripping on the front room floor/

Please don't get me twisted, I'm far from a heathen/This is just a simple song of basic rhyme and reason/It's not my meaning to demean or blaspheme/But most things in the Bible ain't as plain as they seem/Can I trust King James to translate these papers?/Do I need a middle-man to link with the creator/Amazing grace, how sweet the sound/Church band plays, now I'm spending my pound/Looking for a short-cut to the road to Zion/We can't fool God, but we wasting time trying/Two thirds of the truth is yet to be told/Two thousand years of corruption soon unfold

And for those of you that dont give a fuck about lyrics, theres planty of tracks for y'all to cop with tight beats. Those who want me to shut up about this dude, holla back. i probably just tell you to buy it though! HAHA!

I'ma go and play some snooker. Its like pool, but a lot bigger and without the big ass pockets. HAHA! You yanks dont know shit about sports! Apart from basketball and maybe boxing (UK still got the best champs in that one though) HAHA! American Football is just a watered down, namby pamby, fully armoured version of Rugby. Except you stop every few seconds! HAHA!


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 11, 2001.

if you like Rm try listening to Skitz's ^Countryman^ album - uk flava

keep the top tens coming -im listenin

why not ask some questions on the rest of the board coz this thread is hooge

[triple-b - tis' thee flashbax honeylove]

-- (sean@sean31.freeserve.co.uk), December 11, 2001.

Big J, I told you. Go work on ya shit. Lemme show you how stupid you sound...

A) You claim you through respondin to me, but you keep respondin to everything I say! Fuckin dumb ass, lil boy.

B) It's like you're up 3 games to 0 in the playoffs? There ain't no comin back? You young dumb punk. You should have said it's like the series is 4 games to 0. It's over and I hold the championship trophy. 3 games to 0 still means I have hope. But 4 to 0 leaves no hope. Which is exactly what you have fuckin with me, "son." No hope.

The Best, Reverend Adrian needs to say a prayer for ya ass, cuz everything you say needs Jesus. Nobody resects the East anymore! Y'all cats ain't been shit since 1996! I don't know why y'all keep talkin about y'all started hip-hop and blah, blah, blah... Who gives a fuck? You didn't own it then, and you definitely don't own it now! People wanna bounce. BOUNCE=DA SOUTH. Nobody gives a fuck about NYC. And what's even more fucked up, you QB niggas diss Jay-Z, and he's the only respectable rapper you have. Jada, Beans, X, Ja are aiight, but they ain't got shit on Jay or Eminem or even NO FLOW Dre or anybody else in DA DIRTY. Face it, NYC (especially Queens) has nothing on DEM DIRTY BOYS!!! Quit stealin our beats and borrowin our rappers. Damn, how many times does Juvenile or Ludacris or 8ball and Timbaland have to save you fags?! Get some producers and some good rappers, damn! Get off our dick! Please. It's big enough to carry the East, but we sick of y'all eatin our pubic hair. Damn, stand on your own two feet!

And damn! Of all niggas dicks to jump on, Big J, you choose STYLES???!!! What in the fuck?! He wants to take it to the streets?! Sure, Big J. Keep thinking that as you ponder Algebra 2...

DA SOUTH has never been about hip-pop, The Best. That's a northern/eastern thing. For example, we don't do songs with Sisqo and 3LW and remake Marvin Gaye songs with Nelly and Limp Bizkit. That's a QB/East thang. We don't come out hard and then turn R&B like Ja Rule. We don't hide behind production. WE ARE PRODUCTION AT IT'S FINEST!!! We keep it DIRTY till the day we die.

I looked at my Oct. 19th post. What's ya point, towel head?

Qoolout, J-Dolo, Bama! Wassup wit it?! 3:16, why you diss American football like that? You still cool, though. Hollywood, I don't know what's up with fake ass Nas doin a mixtape for Jay-Z, puttin money in Da Roc's pockets. But if that shit is true... 3:16, there goes another way to shut up a dickriding QB nigga. Find out that they King is doin a song to make his rival money.

Tell Nas to leave them three little women alone. He's too old for that shit...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 11, 2001.

What you talkin' 'BOUT Hillis!!!! I sees why dudes be bombin on your retarded ass. The South is SUPERPHUCKINGWEAK!!! If I hear another stupid ass hook from 36Mafia, Project Pat, or Ludacris I will start snuffing everyone with overalls. The South did nothing but sell records back to themselves. You gets no props for that! Nobody bangs that NoLimit shyt no more. Hot boys aint so hot without Juvy and if your "CUNTry" ass even mention Magoo as a lyricist. OHHHH I'll piss in every pickup truck from here to Nashville. Don't hate NY because our bums can get jobs in your hood... and don't hate QB cuz we got more live niggaz on one block than you got in all of Little Rock. Ya'phuckin ig'nant, repugnant, toothless, backwood, trailer trash, dirt road walkin, Forrest Gump talking, deformed incest cousins having BASTARD!!!

-- Sean Black (DatQBNigga@yahoo.com), December 11, 2001.

YO YALL JOIN THE NAS-STILLMATIC ONLINE STREET TEAM AM GOING TO GIVE YOU THE LINK.http://radiofinderizer.net/cgi-bin/columbia.cgi? sf=1&s=yes&u=LOX&a=Nas.PLEASE JOIN IT.

-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

I ain't trying to start no beef with nobody on this board, because I'm the newcomer, but I gotta say the East is better than the South in rapping. I'm not hating on the South or anything, because I like Eightball and M.J.G. as well as U.G.K. (Did anyone here that new "Dirty Money" yet?), but the East just has better rappers. Beats are important to any album, but a rapper with tight lyrics are respected way more than a rapper with just tight beats (ex.Talib Kweli or Canibus vs. Drama or Pastor Troy). But don't get me wrong, some rappers Down Bottom do have just as tight, or in some cases, better lyrics than some East Coast rappers (Eightball can out rap O.D.Bastard any day of the year). But if you break it down even further, the beats don't mean nothing, because most of these rappers out don't make their own beats. So you have to compare them lyric for lyric and the East has way more lyrics than the South does. So that means the East has better rappers and the South has better producers (Timbaland, Neptunes, Mannie Fresh, Pimp C, DJ. Paul and Juicy J., etc.).

Jadakiss(freestyle about Sigel): "This is a man's world/Y'all niggas keep f*cking with Kiss, I'll see to it that you visit your man's girl" (referring to Aaliyah) BANG! BANG! D-BLOCK GANG!!!!!! JADA AND THE LOX ARE THE BEST OUT!!!

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 11, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

"Holiday's gettin on it/Fuck Beanie Siegel/nigga you could suck my dick when i shit on it/Mac put a lid on it/Fuck wit me i kill ya whole fuckin family/You could put ya kid on it/Free, you a bitch too/Wanna rhyme with ya man/Talk greasy nigga you gettin hit too/We can make the bullshit stop....Make New York jumpin like for G to get off/How the fuck ya ROC when yo leader is soft/.....Holiday's callin ya bitch/You gonna make me catch my fourth case hopin dat none of ya snitch.....Dont you ever talk of killin me/Word to Allah/I squeeze the burner in ya face till it turn ya to tar"D-BLOCK!!D-BLOCK!! D- BLOCK!! This nigga is crazy! I listened to that sheek jae hood styles exclusive all day so far, but it will wear off eventually but until then, I'ma keep playin style's verse cuz that shit is hot and he is not wit da bullshit no more.Beans beware this nigga dont want to rhyme anymore about u, so chill.Next is da streets! What up Qoolout, 3:16, LOX, Best, Hill 3000, and the Bama.I'm crazy, word? Ever since I heard dat shit i couldnt stop talkin about it but i wont mention no more on this post, unless there's a new freestyle.Fuck Jay-Z and the Source (I knew the MIC system was tainted anyways. I know people that know people that know people that told them that some rappers (they wouldn't say who, for fear of lawsuits from certain rappers)paid the Source to give them a good mike rating, not sayin that Jay-z didnt deserve because he did, but wack-ass rappers (Ya probably know who they are anyway if u keep track of the Source). Now on the Ali Vegas freestyle diss to Fabolous;he's really beefin wit DJ Clue because Ali Vegas and Clue had a disagreement along time ago about something and that lead to Clue not playin anymore Ali Vegas freestyles or any songs featuring him, so Fabolous happens to be the star franchise rapper under Clue's Desert Storm Records,therefore Ali Vegas went after the star(Fab) of Desert Storm. The diss was ill, but do ya think Fab will retaliate and can he really battle against Ali Vegas? That "F-A-B-O-L-O-U-S" singsong spelling shit aint gonna cut it against Ali Vegas. This nigga's gifted,with sick ass lyrics and witty punchlines and crazy metaphors,compared to a young nasty nas and he only 18(he's been on Blaze Battle and numerous freestyle competitions across the country, with some 1st places and runner-ups).And will anyone on the ROC let that stand?(Desert Storm is under Clue, and Clue is under Rocafella.)Only time will tell. Beef is good only on wax but if a nigga want to be left alone before he get serious, LEAVE HIM ALONE (I'M TALKIN ABOUT BEANS. STICK TO YOU VS JADA CUZ HE'S IN THE MOOD BUT NOT STYLES) Fellas I be back though when i come from work if not, i'll holla at ya tomorrow. HEADRUSH IF YOU HAPPEN TO STUMBLE ON THIS SITE,WE GOT DA PAPER WAITIN FOR YOU!THE 2001 IS RIGHT OUTSIDE YA COUSINS CRIB WAITIN TO BE DRIVEN.( CHESHIRE CORRECTIONAL IN CT HAS A COMPUTER ROOM). REPPIN WATERBURY, CT FOR LIFE, AND A MAJOR SHOUT_OUT TO KEITH MURRAY FOR HOLDIN IT DOWN WHILE IN CHESHIRE (MY NIGGA TOLD ME STORIES BOUT KEITH; HE A WILD DUDE THAT"S ALL I CAN SAY.3 more days,HEAD. I'm Out. ONE.

-- J-Dolo (J_dolo@nvctc.com), December 11, 2001.

Sorry Adrian that last post of yours didn't cut it dun. Just face it , the south is MAD WACK, and you know it!! Oh and your Oct. 18 post, you posted "kiss my black ass"....sorry but you are CAUCASIAN.....LMAO. You also said that the east only have two quality "rappers"in Jay Z and Ja Rule.....LOL FAGGOT AZZ DUDE. I can't recall Juvenile, Ludacris, M.J.G or any other wack ass south "rapper" ever saving the east coast you prick. Oh and that towel head joke........NOT FUNNY, TOMATOES!! Listen "bruh" or "white bruh" stop coming at me with that garbage about the "souths" production 'cause once again all that south shyt sounds the SAME!! Oh yeah dun, Timbaland would lace a joint with Nas, Jada Kiss, Jay Z, even girly azz Ja Rule any day over a LLLLLLAAAAAAAMMMMMMMEEEEEE B.G., Eightball, Lil Flip, C-Murder or anyone else from the dirty, stinkin, sweaty.....phuck it dun Sean Black said it perfect south. One last thing "whodi" if you say that the south isn't trying to be hip hop then what the phuck are they trying to accomplish. Sean Black said it perfect, the south doesn't make profit because their sales are only bought by those who reside in the south, while the east coast sells WORLD WIDE...."umbra"



-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 11, 2001.

Just to add some more info to this whole Nas vs. Jay-Z fued. I admit that Ether track is hot, but it just makes the whole shit obvious who the best STORYTELLER is; Nas. If youse a storyteller, youse a storyteller, don't mean you tell the truth. Means you can lie all you want and get the fuck out of it all by sayin they just lyrics and you was tellin a story. I can't trust what Nas is sayin, when he sayin shit like:

Roc-a-fella died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter

from Ether. Now if youse can understand that line, you would know Rockefeller did not die of AIDS. Muthfucka died of old age and he still got money in the bank. He has a whole god damn center named after him in New York. Rockefeller Center where NBC at. Shit y'all have to start thinkin about this shit carefully, if Nas is a betta storytella, than who you think can fabricate shit more? Yeah Nas is a betta lyricist, but he can be more creative and can fabricate more shit. If you listen to Destroy and Rebuild, he fuckin goes at Cormega, P, and Nature. Come on think about it. Most of you just want to see Nas win, because he's an underdog. Give respect where respect is due, Nas can rhyme, but Jay-z can muthafuckin flow. Both of them are great artists and Can't wait til Dec 18 till Stillmatic drops, The Blueprint Unplugged drops and Wu Tang drops. musa-the warrior

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 11, 2001.

You guys must have not read my post earlier!Do you guys relize that this beef shit is fake as hell!This is an outrage to me and it should be to you too.And yes H3K it is true Nas is on that fucking album.and Jada too.You guys need to read that shit.I'm mad as hell because so called enimies do a joint on their enimies mixtape.What the hell was Nas and Jada thinking!That chip tooth bastard and that fat hurt as hell mutherfucker going to sell out like that.I'm about to go to the dictionary fellas.This is a true abomination to whole rap scene.Listen to me on this one..........Like I told you before no fuckin rapper is gutter!If they were they would not sell out like that!I'm too heated to talk so I'll be in my room listening to Tom Jones!I'm out Holla back

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 11, 2001.

Also musa you are right.If he is talking about Jhon D Rockafeller he is stupid because the business tycon died 40+ years before the the AIDS virus epidemic in 1981.Nas really needs to check his history. Holla

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 11, 2001.

I just listened to Mobb Deep and I have to admit that they fell off. I am a huge Mobb Deep fan but damn...they went commercial. On a couple of songs they came off raw...but most of that album is trash. I hate the fact that every rapper/rap group has to start off strong and end soft. This is excluding Jay-Z.....I ain't a Jay-Z fan but I gotta give repect where it is due. R.I.P. to the Mobb Deep that gave us The Infamous and Hell On Earth.

I'm still waiting for Stillmatic to come out...that is my last hope for rap...

For now I stay listening to the gulliest....in no particular order.

Only Built For Cuban Linx-Raekwon The Infamous-Mobb Deep Illmatic-Nas 36 Chambers-Wu Tang Hell On Earth-Mobb Deep It Was Written-Nas

Something to think about... What happened to the days when rap used to be about lyrics, and hardcore bass with hypnotic samples from old 70's and 60's records? It doesn't HAVE to be sampled but damn, this is the essence of our music....rap is the music of NY, and of every person of color like myself. I hate to say it but rap is being invaded by commercial tastes, suberbia, and the whiteness that comes with the afforementioned.

I ain't racist, my step pops is white but damn....we need to take back rap. Rap came from the Bronx and right now it seems more like Long Island....--A concerned ni99a....

-- Castro (StillMatic212@aol.com), December 11, 2001.

Hollywood and musa, you're right about John D. Rockefeller not dying from AIDS, but did you know that Redman had a friend who was a rapper and he died of AIDS. And he rapped under the name of Rocafella(exact spelling). I don't know which one Nas was referring to, but most likely it was Redman's Rocafella. I don't know if Hova knew him and did it as some sort of dedication to him. They're talking about this on another web page, but I can't recall the site.

Jadakiss:"If niggas half nice/then that means they're half wack"


-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 12, 2001.

Yah, got to listen to most of Stillmatic. (Morpheus) I still gots to pick up the copy on the 18th, but I hope that y'all don't have high hopes for th cd, fer reals. I thought Nas was gonna come out the gates, but he strugglin to lead the pack. I hope y'all don't have high hopes, because if you do, you gonna be mad dissapointed. Just don't expect much and I think it'll be aight.

With Jay-Z, he named Roc-a-fella after the oil tycoon JD Rockefeller. It got nothing to do wit Redman. But Rockefeller is a dynasty and they still got mad power. Jay-Z smart man, and yo that Blueprint unplugged, that shit is a surprise. I'm a have to pick up Nas, Wu and Jay on the 18th. Holla back.

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 12, 2001.

Hollywood, you said we don't care, but we do. Bakardi, I feel ya. Thanks for bringing that info to the table. To the rest of y'all, I gotta disagree with a couple of your points. 1st of all, Bakardi is saying that maybe Nas was talking about a different Rockefeller. Musa, Cuz died with money in the bank? So what? That doesn't impress me. And If he did have so much money he probably could have died of anything, but just had it covered up. We will never really know what killed him, that's just how dishonest this world is. And as far as him having a building...presidents used to enslave Blacks and there are buildings with their names. Chris Columbus was a thief; he got a holiday and a capital named after him. Rockefeller's chapter means nothing to me; I couldn't care less about what caused his death. And even if it was a lie, are you saying Jay spits only the truth? I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so let me know if you are saying that; if so, I got plenty of quotes to ask you about. On another note, I saw Nas on MTV and he said he told Jay that they shouldn't beef and before Nas could finish "he (Jay) agreed with me. So it is what it is." I heard one song from that unplugged joint and I wasn't feeling it. It was "Song Cry." I like it on Blueprint, but it's changed up a bit now. And as far as the beef staying on CD, Jay already took it off of CD. By putting out a CD on the same day, as Nas, that is messing with Nas' sales and money. I don't think he should have taken it to this point, but it is what it is. Hollywood, some of the beef may be fake but Pac and BIG proves that some of it was real. Y'all believe what you want, but their deaths, in my opinion, were related to their beef. And I think we have established that Rockefeller didn't die of AIDS but, you said he died before 1981. Plenty of peeps with AIDS died before this time. Castro, you say all rappers/rap groups have came out strong and went soft, but "this excludes Jay-Z." I'ma just say I disagree with that. Oh yeah, Hollywood, I don't even know if your info is correct, but if it is, Nas and Jada could have been recorded them songs. Look at Pac, we still hearing new stuff from him, so maybe they did that before the beef. Dolo, what up? My bad about the PD thing, but he's okay with me. What about Sheek since you like Styles? You can be him instead and join me and LOX. 3:16, yeah, now I'm feeling that rhyme you put up there. I still gotta hear it, and it seems kinda like blaspheme, but yes, those were some deep lyrics, and that's what I like. Hillis what up? I was feeling a few CD's in your top ten. 316, my list is coming, just stop saying stuff about my girl Beyonce' and I'll put it up. LOX, I already mentioned Alicia Keys, but I'm not gonna be greedy. You can have her, and yeah, she is FINE too. And to all those who thinks Blueprint is the greatest CD ever...I liked the "Hard Knock" CD better. Think about it. Oh yeah, what's the name of the joint where Styles goes at ROC? Jada is my man, but I'll give Styles a listen.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Oh yeah, J Dolo, that had to be Jay's response to Ether because he would not have said: "you say I spit a lot of B.I.G.'s rhymes well I'm payin homage." Now I haven't heard it so I don't know if Jay spat it or not, but if he did it had to be a response to Ether because he is addresing lines that we only heard in "Ether." But he'll probably try to come with something else too. Somebody tell me, what is Ether anyway?

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Qoolout you do have some points.But I am telling the truth checkout hiphopgame.com better yet I will give you the exact spot:


And it does have Jada at the powerhouse dissin beanie.So he does kinda gain a little respect in my book for that.But he is very stupid to let the Roc collect the dough he should be collecting.And about the AIDS thing yeah people died of that before 1981.But nobody knew about it until 1981 or around that time.Before then the only way he could have contracted it would be from drug tranfusion,or a monkey! Sound wierd but I doubt he could get it from a carrier since most people were not infected back then.If people were using drug niddles to injest crack they would still need that carrier.I know this is way off subject but I just had to address that issue. Thanks Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 12, 2001.

Qoolout I feel ya on what you sayin wit Roc-a-fella. But Nas be claimin his shit is real. I think if youse in the rap game most of your shit ain't real. Because real "thugs," "ganstas," they don't say shit and they don't rap. They know to keep their mouths shut. Not sayin that these rappas don't hustle, but they not true thugs, so I ain't even gonna try and defend all these allegations or spread rumors. Because everyone here is tryin to spread crazy rumors about Jay because of what Nas is sayin. Just let the music be and I enjoy the competition, takes this shit off the hook in terms of emotion and what not. But everyone online is tryin to live some sort of drama through what Jay and Nas be sayin on they raps. Just tryin to bring some of these heads down to earth. They business is they business. Just cop them albums and bump the shit in the car, in your room or when you tappin that shit. I could give a fuck if Rockefeller died with money, from AIDS or what have you. I just want people to be a bit more fuckin objective wit this beef shit. Trust me, Nas ain't fuckin innocent either wit anythin he be sayin, although he went all out wit Ether and Destroy and Rebuild. Oh and December 18, about every other album that can come out has to come out that date, because Christmas is the week after. It ain't about hate, but Nas moved his date back from December 4th to the 18th too. That's fo sho. Wu is comin out that day too. It's the perfect time to get sales anyway, and just about everyone is gonna pick up the two of three that day for Christmas presents. It's smart thinkin. I feel the Blueprint album, because Jay, he can mc. I give Nas the lyrics, but Nas can't go in front of a crowd like that bust out lyrics like that on stage. Jay can flow. Too much hate out here. Everyone tryin to take out Jay, yeah he got his flaws, but just watch out for Blueprint 2 and he's gonna show us shit that we never heard or seen befo. Oh and about the Nas joint, shit's hot fer real. But Mad heads here and everywhere just hypin that joint like crazy. Just pick it up at Tower or wherever the fuck you pic up your cd's along with Wu and Jay unplugged. and yo, leave the rumors wit the artists, not in the forums. People be making all kinds of false claims about this and that reading the lyrics too carefully. Just fuckin listen to it and enjoy. Out. Holla Back!!!!

-- musa-the warrior (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 12, 2001.

No disrespect at all Hollywood, but I think I missed whatever you were trying to say in your 1st point. Maybe it went over my head or you didn't explain it right, either way, I'm lost on what you were trying to tell me. But about that beef, I was saying that maybe Nas and Jada or whoever, did the songs before the beef. Many are beefing with Suge Knight, but he putting out their songs. Snoop ain't gonna lay nothing down for Suge, but they were cool at one time and that's when Snoop did some joints for D row. Suge just waited to put them out. What I'm saying is: Just because we never heard it, doesn't mean that it's a new joint. And plenty of peeps had AIDS before 81. Do you think it just appeared all of a sudden in 81? It wasn't as popular but believe, people had it, passed it, and died from it. Musa, I feel like 98% of what you are saying, but if you say Nas lies, just mention that Jay-Z lies too. And I know peeps have hyped Nas' new joint, but I've never posted anything about Stillmatic, and I've posted a lot. I never made any predections about it; matter of fact, this is the 1st time I've even typed s-t-i-l-l-m-a-t-i-c. Also, I don't think you can even say anything about those who have hyped it because look at you. I mean, no disrespect, but you are talking about Blueprint 2 and haven't heard one song from it. You said be objective, but you're not really being it. And as far as Jay being a better flower...well, I gotta disagree with you on that too. But that's all this is; I'm not trying to call you out or punk you online or anything, I'm just saying I feel you for the most part, but not 100%. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

HAHA! OK Q, I'ma stop talkin' bout you know what with you know who. On the same matter of album lists, when I did my rappers one I just noticed a mistake. It aint sposed to be Terminator X, I meant to say Chuck D. (Seein' as X dont rap, and flav aint got the greatest flow in the world... hmmm... Fucked that one up didnt I). I'm suprised none of y'all noticed it. Hillis, Man I knew I was invitin' controversy when I said shit bout American Football. I aint mean that I hate on it or shit, I just been watching a bit of Rugby recently. Its a lot harder. I get riled up pretty easy. HAHA! Nuthin' but love though!

Bakardi, If that "half nice/half wack" Jada line you spat is true, does that mean Nas is "half woman, half boring"?

"We lean all day and some say that ain't productive/That depend upon the demons that you're stuck with/Cause right now, I see clearer than most/I sit here contending with this cheese on toast/I feel the pain of a third world famine/Yeah, we count them blessings and keep jamming/It's him scumbag, scum of the earth, his worth was nil/Until he gained the skill of tongues/From fifteen years young straight to my greyback self/I stay top shelf material, jerk chicken, jerk fish Breakaway slave, bliss/Generate gees and then we stash 'em in the Swiss" - "Witness" Roots Manuva

All the veterans and all the young guns up on here; do what you do, big shout outs to all of y'all!


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 12, 2001.

This is a little off topic, but I got to know, did anyone hear about Styles of the Lox freestyling on Hot 97 and saying:"Rock the boat, Rock the boat/that's one less b*tch in a rocawear coat...". If so, can you give me a little more info on this. I know Styles is grimey, but DAMN!! The Lox are my favorite group of all-time, but that was a VERY low blow. I wonder if Beanie Sigel or Jay-Z is gonna respond to that? If they don't, I don't know what to say about the Roc. And on 12/18, I may be the only one on this thread, I'm copping that Ryde or die vol.3!! I'm not going to get that Nas cd, because I'm still skeptical from getting that Nastradamus and having to return it to the store the same day, because it wasn't any good. And does anybody else think that prodigy needs to stop rapping for a minute, because nowadays, he barely rhymes and NEVER shows any type of character on the mic. And (sorry to keep rambling on and on, but I got a lot on my chest) did you hear his "diss" to Jay-z over the Takeover beat. Man, I knew from day one that Havoc was better than him and now Havoc is proving it by staying consistent and prodigy is getting worse and worse. Oh..3:16, that Jada line is true and Qoolout, I feel you to since I see we both like Beyonce' a lot. But, we need to make a deal. How about I take Beyonce' and you get her sister?! :)

Jadakiss:"The pain is invisible/but you can't hide the scars" JadaKiss: The Prince of NY(Heir to the throne) BANG!! BANG!! D-BLOCK GANG EARLY!! RUFF RYDERRRRSSSS!!!!

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 12, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Musa, what the phuck are you talking about dun. "Stillmatic" is mad hot. Every joint on "Stillmatic" is mad tight with the exception of "Braveheart Party" and "Smokin". The only reason why those joints are not hot is because Nas doesn't spit up to his lyrical potential. Musa, you must not be listening to the lyrics or recognizing the concepts of the tracks. Aiyo dun, Nas spits a whole inncident backwards on "Rewind". He spits shyt like "no hell", "go he there", and "shoot don't please" the shyt is mad sick and original. Also, on "One Mic", Nasty relates Jesus Christ to his twin glocs, you ask yourself how in the hell does duke do that. The shyt is flames!! Dun, if you know Nas's music like you say you know his music, then you know that you will have to listen to the joints several times before you really catch what he is saying. Don't get me wrong the album has some sick ass beats, but Nas's main concern is lacing the tracks with his lyricisim. Dun, hip-hop heads is talking about raising the mic system and giving wo 6 mics, not that it matters but damn. You either are listening to a different album, or you are a fan of simplicity lyrics that are easily understood. If you listen to the whole album you will realize that this album, in every form contrasts from the typical album that just talks about ice, cars, and cash. Don't get me wrong material things are nice, but 7 times out of 10 we don't have those things. On this album Nas talks about the reality of our society, and situations that everyone can relate to. All I am saying is just listen to the lyrics.

Oh yeah Qoolout Ether is a highly flammable liquid; to light up, burn, kindle, or blaze.

One last thing there is some controverscy (hope i spelled that right) over the "Destroy and Rebuild" track by Nas. Dudes is mad heated at Nas because of this joint. Cormega is talking about throwing down with dun, Nature is talking about coming with a retaliation dis track, and Prodigy seems to be the only cool one because at the end of this track Nas still shows him some love. Yeah but things are starting to heat up in the Bridge. I will keep duns posted

Oh Adrian when you make your way back to this board please answer my questions of if the south is not hip hop then what the phuck are they trying to accomplish, and how in the hell are south "rappers" making profit if they only sell in the south region?

"They thought I would make another Illmatic/ but it's never backwards for me, here's another classic"-Nas


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Sorry fellas, but I just feel like typing today. Not to make any heads mad, but honestly I think Jay Z is obsessed with Nas. Ex.) Dun already has 3 dis tracks going at Nas and they are all subpar (yeah they are all after "Ether's" release). In all of those dis tracks wo has some kind of reference pertaining to Nas's baby moms......LOL. Damn, why in the hell does he have to keep bringing it up? PLEASE FOR THE SAKE OF BATTLING TALK ABOUT SOMETHING ELSE!!! Also, on Jays latest dis track he says something like Nas is gay because he has a 2 way.......LMAO Damn I swear I just got done watching B.E.T.'s countdown and Jay Z was on the "Top Five 2 Way" videos twice. Duke is also releasing an Unplugged album on Dec. 18th which is a lp for the "ladies", and already posting a date for his Blueprint 2 album for next November. Damn is Jay Z scared, or nervous that Nas pulled his hoe card. I mean he asked Russell Simmons to stop airing the dis "Stillmatic" on Hot 97, and he is also trying to stop the airplay of "Ether".........LMAO. Get a grip "Jaz", I mean Jay Z, I mean his album did go PLATINUM, isn't that the reason for him making the album......LOL

"I gave you chapters, but now I keep my eyes on the Judas/ with Hawaii Sophie Fame kept my name in his music"-Nas "Foxy got you hot 'cause you kept ya face in her puss/ What you think you gettin girls (girls, girls, girls, girls) now 'cause of ya looks?"-Nas

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Qoolout I respect what you saying with the whole pre recorded thing.That can be an excuse for Jada baecause they were cool at one point.But Nas has never been cool with Jay, even when Jay was on his dick back in 1995 with the whole firm shit.So why would you(Nas) go and do a track for a person you apparently have never liked!I hope you understand that.Because it struck me when people kept saying pop this pop that.And who did pop and who didn't I tryed to tell you guys it's not pop it is just the relization that being gutter will not give you popularity and money.And even Jada and Nas have fallen in to that catagory of rapper that lie and say that they are gutter but really are not.It is apperant that you even yourself don't read my post.No offence to you at all but I said all that stuff about rappers not being gutter no more a while ago.And you and 3:16 are the only guys to even attempt to talk abou this issue.If you and others read my post you would have known what I ment!You see why now that I don't get respect on this post.This is no call out to you but I just had to address that.Also the AIDS thing, yeah I was agreement with you.But he died before they even knew what polio was so they probrobly didn't figure out AIDS yet.But I hear what you saying though.But I doubt that Rocaferller got AIDS.Thanks for repliing to my post and also 3:16.

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 12, 2001.

Say no more... Is it me or does the Dynasty symbol really look like an upside-down Pus. 1

-- Sean Black (BlackSean@yahoo.com), December 12, 2001.

Yo BEST, I feel you on what you sayin wit Nas. I know he got the lyrics on Stillmatic. Listen, when I first heard about Nas, was way back when It Was Written came out. Yeah that shit was commercial, but I wasn't into hip-hop back then like I am right now. I was into, Wu and all them rap characters back then, but I never heard of illmatic until just a couple years back. When I heard that shit, I was like WHAT THE FUCK? Yo I was never feelin Nas until I heard that shit. His lyrics, his flow, his stories, his lyrics, I was like this has got to be one of the top 5 albums to eva come out, in all of music. So then, I Am and Nastradamus came out, but yeah I was like "is this foo gettin worse?" I was never feelin that QB or THe Firm shit. The whole point is, is that yo, Nas has gotten worse and worse wit every album and wit every project he tryin to do. Don't get me wrong, Stillmatic, the lyrics are hot, Rewind is a hot track, so is Poison and My Country(without the singin). Yo, I like Nas cause of his lyrics and concepts, on most of his tracks. But doin an album don't mean just lyrics, but its the production. If you gonna be raw and crazy wit the lyrics, be raw and and crazy wit the production. His lyrics are off the hook on STILL, but his production is just straight wack. Just my opinion. In any case, trust me I want Nas to come out at the top, but he has to top Illmatic to get any respect. Be it wit production, lyrics, just the whole 9. But wit Jay, although some of his shit is suspect, has gotten betta ova the years. I mean, his flow and delivery is what gets a lot of heads listenin to his shit. I feel his lyrics, but not like Nas. But Jay, he workin. And being a MC means you gotta have charisma. WHenever I see Nas or hear him talkin, he sounds like he always high, don't give a fuck tryin to act hard, when he not. I mean Prodigy and a lot of heads do to, but shit I feel Prodigy when he rhymes and he not tryin to be some poet. Jay, yeah he might be pop and shit, but that is not all of his tracks. Just a couple for the clubs and you gots to have some club bangers on any of yo albums. But fo Nas to eva get back in the game, although he don't got to go the Illmatic route, has to top his first album, because it is the classic that every rap head must have. Don't get me wrong wit STILL, because that shit is hot, but he don't got the respect and admiration that Jay has on the street. I don't think eitha of them have reached their full potential, but with Nas I've seen his potential. He still not even close wit this album. Yeah I know I shouldn't compare, but you know every head in the world that heard Illmatic will always compare every album he does to Illmatic no matter what. I guess that his first album is a downfall. Youse supposed to work yo way from the bottom to the top, but it's like he was at the top, not he just strugglin to get back. A-yo, Qoolout, yeah I was tryin to say that we gots to be objective about the beef, caus, I was feelin the Blueprint and I can only say Jay is gonna lash out with shit we neva seen, cause his ass gotten lazy wit his lyrics, not his cd's but his lyrics. Holla Back!!!!

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 12, 2001.

I think the Jada/Beanie beef might be fake but the Nas/Jayz shit is real. i doubt Nas would use BIGs name just to sell more records.

Im planning on getting Nas's and Mobb Deeps new cds, and Mobb Deep is one of the greatest Hip Hop duos of all time and if people werent so concerned with all the bling bling bullshit commercial shit then they would be somewhere up top dun. you know the system is bad when a 13 year old boy goes gold talking about the micky mouse bracelet he has on his wrist, jesus. i havent read the most recent posts but im sure ill have something to say about it.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

A-yo, if you haven't heard, Jay-Z dropped a freestyle response to Ether wit Funkflex. They banged that joint on the Hot 97 in New York and the vote came in. Nas won from what I heard. Jay got roasted. The response diss is Super Ugly. It's aight, but can't match Ether. Listen to it and see fo yourself

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 12, 2001.

A-yo, if you haven't heard, Jay-Z dropped a freestyle response to Ether wit Funkflex. They banged that joint on the Hot 97 in New York and the vote came in. Nas won from what I heard. Jay got roasted. The response diss is Super Ugly. It's aight, but can't match Ether. Listen to it and see fo yourself


yo here are the lyrics

"Super Ugly" lyrics...

"I got myself a gun........uh-ohhhhhhh I got myself a gun........ Brooklyn stand up.....

I got myself a gun, but really i don't need the heat You heart pump project Kool-Aid, you're sweet I don't gotta two-way you gays This is not beef, this is rap homie, I don't have a scratch on me You feel Jay soft, rip Jay off Damn i'm only worth over a hundred million Look i got beef with like a hundred children Niggas with pink suits, trying to get cute You a little outta line homie Don't let the nine homie Put you out your mind homie Just rhyme homie Kick your little lies, i kick my real facts Like you sneaking out the back of The Source sound lab We wasn't chasing you, we had a taping too We came through to do our 1-2 thing It wasn't a Roc-A-Fella come through thing Cause if it was on like that, nigga we'd come through Queens With Queens niggas, you know how i do Look, i got more shooters in Queensbridge than you Niggas will tie you up on the Coliseum roof And open beer bottles off the boy chipped tooth

I got myself a gun........uh-ohhhhhhhhhhh I got myself a gun......

I'm the J...A...to the ( ?? fuck his broad ?? ) This nigga never sold ( ?? ) now how you Escobar Had to buy your chain back last time you got robbed The nerve of the coward nigga- OH MY GOD No rap rumors or innuendos I bring it to you live, lift up your window Let the public peek in see your dirty laundry Ya'll don't want me to continue....HOV....

*Super Ugly* *Hook to "Bad Intentions"*

Me and the boy AI got more in common Than just ballin and rhyming- get it- more in Carmen I came in your Bentley back seat, skeeted in your jeep Left condoms on your baby seat Yeah nigga the gloves is off, the love is done It's whatever, whenever, however nigga one And since you infatuated with sayin that gay shit Guess you was kissin my dick when you was kissin the bitch Nasty shit, you thought i was boning Bonette ( ??) You calling Carm a hundred times, I was boning her neck ( ?? ) You got a baby by the broad, you can't disown her yet When does your lies end, when does the truth begin When does reality set in, or does it not matter Gotta hurt i'm your baby mama's favorite rapper And ask you current girl, she knows what's up Holla at a real rapper, nigga i don't give a fuck

* "Bad Intentions" hook *

Yo ma, I'm a Jay fan for life, but Jay, dayam that shit is kinda weak. Nas wins this round fellas.

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 12, 2001.

Bakardi you say you ain't trying to start nothing but you talking bout my girl. She's mine, y'all act like there is no one else out there. You take lil Solange because she is MY sister. But I will be getting that ryde or die 3 too. 3:16, that list is coming, everytime I try to post it, I gotta respond to this stuff. Hollywood, look I can't speak for the rest of my peeps on the board, but I've read everything posted on here, ALL of it. If you wrote it like 2 weeks ago, I may not remember it, just like you don't remember everything that I've put on here. The fact that I am responding to you proves that I read what you say. Anyway, if Nas did a joint for ROC, which I doubt, but it could be true, I guess that just proves he was getting that money. He may never have liked Jay (I don't really know) but before this beef, he didn't hate him, so that could be one explanation. And about that man Rockefeller, tell me how do YOU know what he died of? Just tell me that. You act like you were there. I'm not saying he died of AIDS, but if they can determine that dinosaurs walked the earth, they can say what he died of now, even if he died in like 1920. Don't believe all that history book stuff. We don't know what cuz died of and, 4real I don't care. I hope he is RIP, but for real I'm getting tired of talking about that man. And I didn't take it as a call out; in fact, I welcome peeps to try to call me out on anything, because I post the truth. Musa, Nas has gotten worse with every CD? So his last one was better than Stillmatic? And Nas is always trying to act hard, but he's not? That proves that you aren't being objective because Jay is no where near hard 24-7. Pac called him out before he died and Jay never said a thing; Outlawz just called him out on a CD and he said nothing. Oh, he said "Y'all get half a bar." He puts up some baby pics of Mobb. I heard he only did that cause he knew they weren't gonna be there (but I don't know for sure). No way is he "HARD." For real, I just listen to the music; I'll listen to all the other stuff, but I let the tracks tell me if I like the rapper. But, if we gonna call out Nas for being "fake," let's do it with Jay. Best, Jay had a two way in his video, "I just wanna love you." And what's up with peeps acting like Jay's last CD was tight? Not B-print but that other bull. That joint had too much of Amil, Beans, and Bleek. Now that was a disappointment. Am I right? Don't act like this man has put out nothing but 5 mic CDs. And speaking of the source, they all about politics, but y'all believe what you want. Musa, what's the name of the Ether response? On another note, Jada is my man, but I just heard that Styles diss to the Roc...Oh MAN. I'm not saying he flows better than Nas, or Jay, but cuz came way harder than Takeover or Ether. LOL Y'all gotta listen to it, I think it's called "Exclusive," with Jae Hood. He is Flowin. Dolo? How do you say Beans won vs Jada. Yous my man, but I think you wrong on this one. Maybe Jada had his already and Beans was freestyling, if so that wasn't a fair match, but regardless, Jada won that easy. Beans, the way it sounded when I read it was pretty good "How you talk like Pac, when you rolled with BIG," but when I heard it. LOL, his delivery was terrible. Str8 up. You can tell he was trying to freestyle, but he failed. Now I don't know if Styles said that about Aaliyah, but that was a str8 up punk move if he did. Lastly, Blueprint is a good CD; I like it. But no way is it some classic (Girls Girls Girls, Izzo, etc.). For peeps to say it is just proves that rap has declined.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

Yo, Ether is also a substance that just fills up empty space. Which is wat I think Nas means in his song. Like sayin that Jay just fills up space and doesn't really have content. Or some typa shit like that.

I got a question tho, let's say it was this business dude Rocafeller that jay-z named his company after. Why would he name it after him?? It's kinda weird....not the name itself but naming it after him...i dunno, just my thoughts.

Ok look the south/east shit is never gonna end. Peoples from the east got their opinions and peoples from the south got they opinions and no ones gonna be changin it for wat someone from the opposite place says. no ones gonna convince anybody. South has got a lotta hot shit and so has the East. They're both pretty much equal and u just can't compare them cuz they're both so different. So this its a useless argument. But anyway its cool wtv.

Have any of y'all noticed how theres a somewhat solid discussion goin on and the drop in posts have stopped?

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 12, 2001.

yo can anybody out there tell me where i can hear Nas's song dissin jayz "h to the HOMO" cuz i tried on hiphopgame and that shit got lost so please help me out.

-- bLaZe (joeblaze_213@yahoo.com), December 12, 2001.

Qoolout you missed the point!If you read it why didn't you voice your opinion about pop when I ask everyone to respond.I figure you, just like everybody else probrobly were too occupied addressing the other people that you over looked me and that is why I feel like my post are not as important to you guys.I hope you understand that.And I can not be a hypacrite about this because I noticed that one of your previous questions were not answerd.And I myself needed to read and get caught up in reading all the post since there are so many of them.I noticed you ask for peoples opinion about the characteristics of each regular compaired to a rapper message you put on here a while a go.And my reply to that is on the metaphoric side you were creative and I like being compared to JD it kinda is a complement because he started in this business young and came out with a platnum record before 21.And just like he was, I am a kid on the rise in this world trying to make it.Also the whole JD Rockefeller thing is getting to me too so I will sqash it as it is. Thanks Holla back Hollywood

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 12, 2001.

Qoolout, I neva said Jay-Z albums were all classic, but compare them to any of Nas' and they no doubt sound classic to me. Objective wit the beef, I know both of them went soft. Yeah they old and they got flow and they sho both don't want to die, but shit is gonna stay on wax. Everyone is talkin shit, Jay-Z talk shit, Nas talk shit, Cormega talk shit, Prodigy talk shit. Everyone is talkin. I heard that styles joint too. He did come hard at ROC. But thats the nature of it all I guess. Whateva, I know that I'm still waitin for Nas to come out wit something and this album still don't do it for me. Betta than Nastradamus. I heard all the tracks, except Braveheart Party and I listen to it all day. Some tracks are hot, but others, they sound like that shit from Nastradamus. Qoolout, I'm not sayin any of them hard. I said that thugs dont say shit. Rappin is about flowin and it ain't always about bein correct, but how it comes out. My boys spit and I know that they make fun of shit, because it rhymes it comes out real hot and shit. I don't know what is real, but I know when I can feel someone spittin. Both of them can spit but differently.

In that case, Yo the track is called Super Ugly. Check out the link I posted earlier. If you got Morpheus, you can download that shit. It's aight, but yo Jay got nothin on Nas at this point.

About Pac, Jay came out on Reasonable Doubt wit Brooklyn's Finest and I forget the other track I think its called New shit goin out at the West Coast. Brooklyn's finest was a freestyle with BIG, but Im sure you know. He didn't keep his mouth shut cause he said some shit. I'm sure Nas said something too, but I haven't heard any of the underground cuts. About Beans, he was in his trailer when Jada out of no where started rippin Philly and Beans in Philly. Beans is out of breath, because his ass ran over to the stage after Puffy told him to run ova and come out. Jada left the stage as soon as he finished and Beans was strugglin to catch his breath. Muthafucka couldn't rap, because he's a fat boy, no breath means he can't think.

But yeah, Stillmatic is great, his 2nd best effort, but I'd rather listen to Dynasty wit all the collabos and club bangas than listen to it. Holla back!

-- musa (eroskv@asianavenue.com), December 13, 2001.

Alright Qoolout. I'm gonna divorce Beyonce' and let you have her, because right now I'm really feeling Maia Campbell (that girl from LL's tv show In the House). She's beautiful in every way and still single (until she meets me!). Anyways,I think that Styles'freestyle is better than Ether and Takeover too Qoolout. As a matter of fact, Styles and The Lox have made 5 different songs about the ROC and killed them with each one. I don't think there is a better group of rappers out than the Lox on 1 label. And another thing, I just heard that Gillie da Kid of Major Figgas beat up Beanie Sigel back in the days. I was on this website, and it talked about how Dutch & Spade and Gillie were on Power 99 fm talking about Beanie Sigel and Sigel called up the station and got into a heated argument with them. Gillie supposedly said to Sigel that he was a nobody and that's why noone knew he rapped. He also told Sigel that he didn't pull any girls back then and asked him why doesn't he ever try to pull that "gorilla killa mentality" with him. Sigel was quiet the whole time Gillie spoke so it must of been true of what he was saying. Gillie asked Beanie Sigel why his team (most likely the Sigel Street gang) didn't help him when he "laid him down" in front of them and Sigel once again didn't respond. I don't know if this is all true, because I didn't hear this with my own ears. Now the main event looks more like this: "In the red corner we have:Jay-z and Beanie Sigel! And in the blue corner and surrounding the ring we have:The Lox, Nas, Mobb Deep, Canibus, Cash Money(Major Figgas including Dutch, Spade, and Gillie signed there if you didn't know), Fat Joe, and Wu Tang(Ghostface, Reakwon, and Cappadonna)!!!! Sounds to me like some people have ran their mouth to much and now they have to back it up!

Jadakiss:"And y'all will never be on the same level that were on/with the ability to have dope thoughts/and spit heroin"

Jadakiss the BEST out and "Prince of NY" B.I.G. is still the King not Nas or Hova And to anyone on here that likes the Ruff Ryders, name their best 3 albums!!!! 1)We are the Streets-Lox 2)It's Dark and Hell is Hot-X 3)Kiss da Game Goodbye-Kiss

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 13, 2001.

Hollywood, I knew you were gonna mention that pop question. LOL. I didn't over look it, I didn't know the answer. LOL, I wanted someone to answer it too. But, if I would have known I would have given an answer. I'm not above missing points, but I just didn't miss it right there. Steph, who knows why Jay does half of the stuff he does? Like Hollywood said, those who haven't responded to the rappers I put them with...let me know what y'all think i.e. Hillis, Best, LOX and the rest of y'all. Thanx to those who did, 3-16, Dolo, Big J, Steph and H-Wood. Musa, I never said you said all of Jay's CD's were classic. I was just saying that. That part wasn't really addressed to you. And we just gotta agree to disagree on that point about all of them being classic compared to Nas' joints. Dynasty was weak to me; I wanted more of Jay and less of them other clowns. And I never heard any diss about Pac from Jay. What's the name? I heard something where Jay says "We needed him dead" and someone told me it was a Pac diss, but come on. If he's hardcore, he would have said PAC! He said Nas; he said Mobb Deep. And what about them Outlawz? Called him out(recently) on a song called "All Out." And for the record it's better than any song Jig ever put out. I'm not saying they flow better than him and I'm not saying he's better, but THAT song is better than any of that B print stuff. Everybody try and listen to that joint, "All Out." Point is Hov said not one word about them. If he did, tell me the song and I'll try my best to find it. Bakardi, you on thin ice dogg. Just say no more about her. And you are too right about youngin from "In the House." If me and Beyonce ever broke up, I'd come for that girl. lol Anyway, who is Gille and what are the names of the Roc disses that you mentioned? And Beanie and Bleek started (so I've heard) most of this beef bull. I know Jay is like "WHY." Beans, be just jumping out there for no reason. I hate rolling with peeps like him because they always gonna have you caught up in something. Canibust and cuz from WU...what did they do to him? Even the Jada diss, I think B spit the 1st diss. And I'm glad we got another Jada fan on here; he's one of the best right now, if you ask me. You already said the tightest 2 RR CD's, but I gotta think about number 3. I like Jada's solo, but I wanted a lil more, so I'll let you know which CD gets my #3 spot. And I got DM's before LO's, but both are tight. Oh yeah, Musa, I heard Jada's diss in Philly on hiphopgame.com and he didn't leave right after it. He went right into "We gonna make it." Is this where you listened to it too? Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

1. Pac's Greatest Hits (He is the truest, name a rapper out now, that Pac ain't influence.)

2. Pac's Me Against the World (classic-this man was in jail and still out sold the whole world- and this was before he went to the West- and this is when Sales meant something. Just about every track could be a single.)

3.DMX's It's Dark- (Came out so hard he can probably never match this. But he still str8 with me)

4. Geto Boys with Big Mike I 4got the name of it ( I gotta get this again! It had Mr. President and Six feet deep. Hillis, did you think the South would make it in the top 5?)

5. Big's Life After (He would have still come with great songs, but I don't think B I would have ever surpassed this CD. "Armed and Dangerous, ain't too many can bang wit us...")

6. L.O.X's We are the Streets ( They are the new Geto Boys; I knew this was gonna be tight. Jada is the hottest and they all make the other 2 look better. "Who want it wit Sheek, who want it wit P who want it wit me? If I say so myself it's a wonderful 3" and "I'm Black and deadly and my burner just like me" or "Just because you might have seen me in and outta ya house, it ain't no way she can have a baby outta her mouth."

7.Nas' I am (I know most of y'all probably think his 1st joint should be here, but this is when I first start listening to Nas.) Them college heads put me on to this. 8. Jay-Z (Almost every joint was hot, this is when I really started to feel Jay. I don't think he's matched this CD yet.) Them college heads put me on to this.

9. Ice Cube (This is the best he ever put out and best he ever will. One of the 1st to give me some lyrics that made me think.)

10. Puff ( On the 4real, this is a tight CD. This is when Bad Boy had it locked. Y'all might hate, but you know it's true. He had some tight guest on here too.)

My bad for the delay 3:16. But there it is. What y'all think? Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Hey LOX, Jada is my man and Styles is good too, but if either one of them said something about Aaliyah, not only was that childish, but it was stupid as far as records go. Look at it like this: That "We are the Streets" CD was hot, and many say Timbo made it hot. According to Tim, he and Aaliyah were very close and he said that he lost most of his creativity when she died. So do you think he gonna share the creativity he has left with some fools that dissed his girl? That was stupid on their part. For one it could hurt their relationship with Tim, but mainly, you gotta have respect for the dead. That's why no one ever made a Pac diss after he died. Mobb Deep and the rest who had beef let it go right there. Like I said, I like their music, but I don't condone that "talk about the dead bull." Plus she never had beef with them anyway. I bet if a Biggie hater came at them just because Big was their man, they would feel wronged. Peeps in the industry need to grow up, quick.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Ill tell you what Hip-POP is. its having collabos with pop stars (stupid ass lil bow wow and jurmaine dupri), most rapper that make club music, nice beat but wack ass lyrics, and most rappers that talk about nothing but money shit. these rappers inclue the entire soso def, Cock-a-fella records, No Limit records, the dude that does the hook for the grimey song(he was on a backstreet boy cd, wanna know how i know? he said it on MTV's 20 years thing), Nelly, New Bad Boy(G- dep and Black Rob are ok though), Ludacris, and most of the cashmoney. if someone disagrees, feel free to.

Now a couple of questions about my nigga P.

Has anyone ever heard the song by him called "you can never feel my pain"? if everything in that song is true how the fuck could he be a damn dancer. WHY THE FUCK WAS HE IN THE DESTINY CHILDS BOOTYLICOUS REMIX VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and could someone post the lyrics to the song supposedly dissing Prodigy.

Yeah The Dynasty CD was probably the worst cd ive ever bought in my entire life, and i bought the st lunatics cd for christ sakes.theres many 2 or less good songs on that piece of shit. when does the ryde or die vol 3 shit come out? oh and that shit about Styles sayin that is FALSE. do you think timbo would make a beat for vol 3 and appear in a video with jada? dont think so yall. my fav cds

1 Life after death


-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Ill tell you what Hip-POP is. its having collabos with pop stars (stupid ass lil bow wow and jurmaine dupri), most rapper that make club music, nice beat but wack ass lyrics, and most rappers that talk about nothing but money shit. these rappers inclue the entire soso def, Cock-a-fella records, No Limit records, the dude that does the hook for the grimey song(he was on a backstreet boy cd, wanna know how i know? he said it on MTV's 20 years thing), Nelly, New Bad Boy(G- dep and Black Rob are ok though), Ludacris, and most of the cashmoney. if someone disagrees, feel free to.

Now a couple of questions about my nigga P.

Has anyone ever heard the song by him called "you can never feel my pain"? if everything in that song is true how the fuck could he be a damn dancer. WHY THE FUCK WAS HE IN THE DESTINY CHILDS BOOTYLICOUS REMIX VIDEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and could someone post the lyrics to the song supposedly dissing Prodigy.

Yeah The Dynasty CD was probably the worst cd ive ever bought in my entire life, and i bought the st lunatics cd for christ sakes.theres many 2 or less good songs on that piece of shit. when does the ryde or die vol 3 shit come out? oh and that shit about Styles sayin that is FALSE. do you think timbo would make a beat for vol 3 and appear in a video with jada? dont think so yall. my fav cds

1 Life after death

2 Tupacs Greatest Hits

3 Illmatic

4 Ryde or Die vol 1

5 Jayz vol 2

6 Nas I am

7 Public Enemys first cd

8 Wu tang's The W

9 Shaq presents Shaqs superfriends LOL JUST KIDDING

9 Common like water for chocolate

10 Violater 1

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Shyt is gettting personal for Gay-Z: check this out...

http://fs3.dotphoto.com/MemberImages/208196/i0C509147-7666-44E5-B217- 605AC403CBF0.jpg

Prodigy should be happy about this one.

-- Sean Black (DatQBNigga@yahoo.com), December 13, 2001.

Gillie is the kid in Major Figgas first video "Yeah That's Us" that comes on last. He also resembles Shyne a little. There isn't a name for the disses the Lox have made, because they're all freestyles. I'm happy Styles didn't say that stuff about Aaliyah, but Kiss did! On DJ Clue's new cd "Stadium Series pt.4", on the freestyle with the Lox over Jay-z's "Jigga that nigga", Kiss says "I'ma see to it that you visit your man's girl". He obviously was referring to Dame Dash's girl Aaliyah. The Lox are really getting at Beanie Sigel and the ROC. Canibus made a song on his new cd named "I got a story to tell" and he's talking abot Hova and Sigel. I heard that Jay has a new diss he made about Ghostface saying "When the toast's raised/that's when you'll end up with a ghostface". I don't know much about this beef, because I hate Wu Tang(don't mean to offend any Wu fans). Cappadonna is no longer with the Wu though. Anyways Qoolout, Maia Campbell is ALL MINE!! I don't share women lol. You cool though man. Holla back!!

Jadakiss:"You don't have to worry/cause Kiss won't snitch/Cause the only time I'm dropping a dime/is when I'm leaving a b*tch"

B.I.G. "King of NY" Kiss "Prince of NY" Heir to the throne BANG!! BANG!! D-BLOCK GANG EARLY!!! RUFF RYDEEERRRRSSSS!!!!!

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 13, 2001.

Let a real nigga from Da boogie down shed some light on this whole situation. Jay is a good rapper and he has been enjoying much success but, He is a seasoned commercial rapper jigga takes beats and jingles and turns them into pop hits, To that he is nice. But come on; how many times can you do that. at some point he's got to come with some real shit and stop with the fantasy shit on his albums. Now as for Nas. He is the next coming of RA if you dont know who RA is listen to Nas's first comeback to Jay. Nas is a ghetto poet, he's got that nasty flow with a NY edge. Nas is closer to Biggie and Pac as far as lyrical content and flow is concern and will not sell as much as the ghetto beat banger Jay-Z. If you are from the school of Rymes you like Nas, If you love beats and gimmics you will like Jay-Z. The nod goes to Nas in 8 Rounds TKO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- (Intelig@Bellsouth.com), December 13, 2001.

ey Sean, i tried going to the link and it couldn't be found. wat wuz it?

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

Just listened to Super Ugly and i wanna give my opinion. Ya, Ether's lyrics are somewat better but this shit is good too! Y'all have to give Jay credit on it, its fuckin funny! Playin the lyrics from bad intentions "all i really know if your hoe wants to be with me" its funny in the context. And also, yeah jigga always talks about the whole baby mama issue but its really in nas' face and even if its past nas and he don't care anymore it still a nice diss.

Just my opinion, later

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 13, 2001.

I just checked out the Jay z reply to Ether, "Super Ugly" and It is an alrght comeback, but is garbage when compared to Ether. The song is basically the standard Jay z rhymes: humor with twist of sarcasm and arrogance. Basically, he was just talking about how he was sleepin with Nas's Baby momma throughout the whole song. So when comapred to Ether it was terrible, but when compared to a Jay z joint, it was alright.

Secondly, I think this song just proves how inferior an MC Jay Z is to Nas. Throughout Super Ugly, All Jaz does is talk about him sleepin wth Nas's baby momma, then he says how no body wants it wih him and that rapperes dont need to get him started. So basically, he was sayin nothin. But Nas's "Ether" on the other hand, was a raw, uncut rhyme that left NOTHING to the imagination. Nas never said anything like "don't get me started..." or "don't make me say it.....", Cause he JUST SAID IT!!! I think this proves Nas is a real MC with real lyrical ability and JAy z is just an empty, gimmicky, no substance havin MC.

No don't get me wrong, in his genere (hip-pop) Jay z is one of the best. Hell, in the track super ugly, he even says he's worth over a 100 million. But when compared to real street rappers, he can't touch the likes of Nas, Jada, Beans, Canibus, Cormega, etc...

P.S. Make sure all you nigga cop that Stillmatic on th 18th. Its gonna be a momentous hiphop event. Holla

-- Bwrecks (buzz@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.


-- JAMEL HICKS (NASEZZCO@YAHOO.COM), December 14, 2001.

Questions -does anyone know what camp fabolous is in? -i dont get the jay z line from super ugly that goes "got more in common with AI than rappin and ballin" -did jay z reeally do nas's woman?

-- Revolution Perfectis (revolutionp@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

The AI reference is to the "alleged" affair that Allen Iverson had with Nas' baby's mother.

Jay-Z is weak. I used to like him, "Reasonable Doubt" is one of the best cds I've ever listened to. But now the kid is watered down garbage and more of a pop princess then the "king of rap." And his two butt-budies, Bleek and Beanie, are the weakest MCs out there since Kurupt and Daz were all over Snoops old shit. This man obviously has poor judgement and needs to run with a real crew.

You want to talk lyrics, you gotta give it up to the man DMX. I do not know why he is constantly overlooked in this catagory. He's had 4 straight album debut at #1 and is the only person out there that can rap about God, his grandmother and killing people on the same cd and you still feel him and know that he's authentic. To me he's the most underrated when it comes to the best out there. He doesnt make those pop queer ass songs that Jay makes and he is more rugged than Nas but lyrically the man is a poet and wordsmith first before he is a rapper. If you dont believe me, check out some of his shit off his cds, you'll thank me later.



-- Johnathan Q. Blaze (method26@aol.com), December 14, 2001.

Hey, dont diss the Wu. they have two of the besy lyricist out there, inspecka dekc(underrated) and GZA.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Hold up,Hold up... anybody that thinks Nas got better flow than Jay- has lost thier damn minds. You can┤t deny that Jay-Z blew Nas out on Takeover. That shit was TIGHT!!! If I was Nas I would step back. He can┤t fuck with Jay-Z. He┤s not on his level- AND THAT┤S REAL! Nas┤shit is lame if you ask me... he needs to just let it go.

-- Denicia Easten (u_want_me_dme2@yahoo.com), December 14, 2001.

OK where am I gonna start? hmmm... first off Steph, you dont want to see that link that sean put up there, you only, what, 16? Even so, it aint a real picture up there, its one of them fake fabricated shits. The one of Prodigy dancing was real. Yo! I think Cormega might have given Hove that picture for real.

Second. Hollywood, that shit you posted up on here on the 12th was some of the most proper shit I heard on here so far!

Third. The beef between Jada and Beans might be real, as is the Jay/Nasty & Mobb Deep, but all these other cats tryin to hop on the "lets diss the ROC" bandwagon are straight up fake as fuck. They just tryin to use the beef to further their own careers, and it aint workin. Especially that weak ass Canibus. Kid only writes half of his own rhymes! He got no place with this shit (he just bitter cos his first effort aint even go cardboard, fuck wood!

Fourth. Whoever said that Beans was out of breathe when he came on stage at the Jada gig. NO! woah woah woah woah WOAH!!! Tell me again, why did Jada leave the stage? hmmm? Exactly...

Fifth. At last Q, you put yo list up. You right, I do think that Illmatic should be there instead of I am..., but the rest of the list is pretty tight too.

Sixth. If we gonna leave Beyonce out, then my girls are J-Lo, Rachel Stevens (pop-star, S club 7, dont know if you heard of them but fuck it), and a girl I met when I was in Brazil (actually, most of the girls I met in Brazil deserve a mention, so...) I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO SEEING Y'ALL LADIES AGAIN SOON!

Seventh, and muthafuckin' final. I heard some sick shit about DMX. When dude was doing a show somewhere, some big ass fight started and spilled out into the street. So X comes out and gets on top of this van and starts spittin' some ill shit with dudes fightin around him. Somebody holla back if y'all know sumthin that I dont.


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 14, 2001.

HAHA! I just heard Ja Rule got robbed by some dudes in London. Thats my capital

-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 14, 2001.

Leave it 2 a female to say Jay is the best. 3 -16 what about Hollywood's post did you like? I never watched pop starts. And go listen to the Jada/ Beans diss. (Hiphopgame.com) Jada didn't leave after he spat it, he went right into another song. Listen for your self. I don't know if Beans was out of breath or not, but he sounded terrible. And Canibust had every right to bring it to Beans. Beans started it just like he does with everybody else. Everybody who is coming at the ROC got a reason... the Roc started that bull. What goes around comes around. Bakradi, what's the name of that Jada song where he says Kiss won't snitch?

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Yo Q! this is straight up cut and paste here (maybe with a few corrections, HAHA!), but heres what I saw making sense with Hollywood's post...

"And who did pop and who didn't, I tried to tell you guys it's not pop it is just the relization that being gutter will not give you popularity and money. And even Jada and Nas have fallen into that catagory of rapper that lie and say that they are gutter but really are not"

... So there you go.

You dont jave to watch pop stars to see the girl I mean, "She's on TV everyday, what the fuck could I go through" She done this kids show called LA Seven, and other shit like that. Oh well, just go to http://www.rachel-lauren-stevens.co.uk/ and all will be revieled. Nothing like shit grown at home.

HAHA! I'ma say it again, HAHA! Ja Rule got jacked HAHA!


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 14, 2001.



-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Okay, basically let me break it down for those that don't know. 1st Jay-Z is not only super-overrated, half the shit he raps about he doesn't write (if you didnt know that, know that now - research it if you want), the only reason he's on top now is because noone is trying to be #1 ( NY won't let anyone replace BIG anyhow),. I'll admit he's good at playing the role of a rap-entertainer, he has charisma and is able to sell his "character", but come on...... Lyrically, Jay-Z better than Nas????? What you smoking??? Pass me some of that shit, cause you tripping man. Sometime ( I know its hard ) but sometimes you gotta swallow your pride and accept the truth thats in front of your eyes, Nas is way better than Jay-Z. I'm not even a die- hard Nas fan ( Wu-Tang 4 life) but even I even have to stop myself and accept facts. Close your eyes, what do you see? The same thing Jay-Z sees......nothing cause he can't see Nas. Like Nas said he can't even see Eminem on his own record. (I don't even call it Jay- Z's song, it Eminem f./ Jay-Z "Renegade") He too busy looking for Nas at the bottom of the game to realize that Nas has always been on top of him. Nas wasnt trying to be the King of New York, he was crowned it already with IllMatic. People are always trying to compare Nas back to IllMatic, daring him to repeat it. He doesnt have to prove anything, cause he did it once. If anything Jay-Z need to make a undisputed-better album than IllMatic before he says anything. (................) Am i right? Its like Kobe Bryant trah talking about M.J. now. No matter if Kobe is better than Mike now, when its all said and done Michael is still the greatest, no matter what. Personally I dont think Nas "fell off", I think almost everybody else fell off. Cats are only interested nowadays with 20's and 22's, gettin brain in the whip from gizzardhead models, bling bling, and all that fake shit that is never going to happen to most , if not, all of us ever. Why are cats getting gas up on fairytales? Wake up, be your on? Don't follow the group, be your own group. This rap shit isn't about fake shit. Its about the streets, the life that we live in, that real people live in? That shit pisses me off when cats front on Nas or Dmx and espescially Wu-Tang cause there not ghetto fabulous. Every song doesn't have to be a club-banga' or an ABC- rhymed-unoriginal-fairytale. It was cute in the beginning, but its played now. Rap wasn't designed to be only this. Cats who think Jay-Z is the ultimate rap guru are killing the foundation that this shit was built for. For the streets. P.S. I studied both Ether and SupaUgly, and if that all Jay-Z has for Nas, if that one 'incident' is all he has on Nas, then Jay-Z might as well pack up his luggage and hit the road, cause that one Ace he had up his sleeve, still didn't win him the card game, as the Street was forced to admit. Wake up people, its okay, Jay-Z isn't the rap messiah, your just gonna have to wait for that man to come with Jesus. Mr. G.R. - killing them out there, taking the souls back with him. Don't worry I'll be back for ya' , like a backboard, you can bank on that. ;)

-- Mr. G. Reaper (da_ith2@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

1st of all mad niggaz are sayin nas is a poet...so is every rapper out there. their rhymes and verses are poems...ignorant fucks. anyway how can nas say hes the best when he didn't even write all of his rhymes? cormega wrote most of his shit. 50 cents probably writes for that nigga. jigga writes all of his shit. hes the only nigga who rhymed wit b.i.g. and sed shit just as ill. when b.i.g. and pac fresstyled together, big ripped it better. nas can't freestyle and the same went for pac. they can tell ill stories and shit. big could spit shit that would leave ya mouth open. same wit j. pac was the realist rapper of all time but big is the best m.c. of all time. and j's time has come to share the crown. and nobody is fuckin wit the roc. nas said fuck prodigy and nature. nature moved to marcy. still pac sed fuck mobb deep and did nas defend them? no he stayed on pac's dick. nas ain't shit he talks like he just came out of QB when he can't even walk in his own jects witout getting robbed. still chills in marcy. and still head to head reasonable doubt vs. illmatic, volume 1 vs. it was written, volume 2 vs. i am, volume 3 vs. nastradamaus, dynasty vs. QB'S finest, and blueprint or blueprint 2 vs. stillmatic, nas maybe has an album just as ill. and thats vol 1 vs. it was written. dmx dropped 2 albums wit a 7 month difference. j is already droppin an album when stillmatic comes out and he just dropped one in septemeber. JAY-Z is iller in all aspect. nas is a fuckin pussy...holla, and this is comin from a queens nigga...no respect for nas

-- d (dynamicdezzy@aol.com), December 14, 2001.


Aight dumbass d. if you had millions of dollars would you roll up in your old projects where it is almost certain that you would get jacked (LOL JA RULE JACKED IN LONDON!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA) I didnt think so. this dumbass is talking about how every rapper is a poet.................................................................. .........sorry, i fell out of my chair laughing. if you think ludacris is a poet then i want whatever the hell you are smokin or drinkin or popin. and Nas is actually pretty good at freestylin youngin. oh and learn how to spell "SAID"...dumb fuck. Now you idiot how the fuck can you compare stillmatic to blueprint to you DUMBASS!!! WHAT THE BLOODY HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU?? WERE YOU INVOLVED IN TOO MANY MIDGET GAY ORGYS AND HIT YOUR HEAD ON SOMETHING???/????

For real people. if you want to come up in this argument at least make sense with your arguments or you will be ripped apart.

"Hold up,Hold up... anybody that thinks Nas got better flow than Jay- has lost thier damn minds. You can┤t deny that Jay-Z blew Nas out on Takeover. That shit was TIGHT!!! If I was Nas I would step back. He can┤t fuck with Jay-Z. He┤s not on his level- AND THAT┤S REAL! Nas┤shit is lame if you ask me... he needs to just let it go."

Alright im gettin pretty sick and tired of dumbass people like you. perhaps Nasty Nas's lyrics arent simple enough for the shrivled up peanut that doctors would identify inside your head as a brain. and whats with all these dumbass terms like "jay blew nas out" i know what your saying but making up retarded phrases like that is not needed, infact that sounds incredibly gay. as for your pathetic comment about jayz another level than nas....i have to say your right. because gayz is on the same level as that fat dude on D12. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

I meant blueprint 2

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Listen i'm new to this joint so i may not be familiar with what everybody's positions are. I can say one thing though, Jay-Z is butt. Super Ugly was wack, How long is he going to go on about hitting Nas's baby moms? he must reall idolize Nas to make such a big deal out of having shred the same women. Plus i recently heard he went on the radio and apologized for what he said. Nas said he does that kind of shit in his song Ether, Nas says and i quote, You always talk shit then apologize just ask kiss." I think Jay is the one with sugar in his thank and he is desperately afraid that Nas among others will expose him for the non gangster that he really is. My words are prophetic people, watch you'll see it all unfold. jay's just not real and people are starting to see through the fasade. Holla.

-- Rob-bre (upcharge@hotmail.com), December 14, 2001.

Revolution Perfectis, Fabolous is in the Desert Storm Camp on DJ Clues label. The Crew consists of Fabolous and his brother Paul Cain aka Muggs, The Teamstas, and Jo Buddens. Qoolout the song in which Jada says that is Livin the Life and it's with Prodigy. It's on the Violator .2 compilation and is a hot song. Theres also a song on there with Styles and Nore called I Come Thru which is a classic. Now theres a lot of people on this thread that seems to think that Nas is way better than Jay-z. I could really care less about this, because I think Jadakiss is the nicest out anyway. BUT, I really don't think that neither is WAY better than the other. I think that Jay-z is better than Nas though. Nas is better than Jay at telling stories and at kicking that stuff that makes you think, but Jay is more accepted by the general public. I mean really, we should take a vote about whos concert would you rather go to, Jay-Z's or Nas'. Nas has very nice lyrics, but so does Jay and can't nobody say he doesn't. But the thing that Nas doesn't have that Jay-Z does is charisma. I mean come on be real. Nas is a boring dude, he says it himself in the interview in the Source. I like Nas and Jay the same amount when it comes to this rap thing, but Jay is slightly better. I mean not that many people knew Pac when he first came out. And then all of a sudden it was like BOOM, here I am. Pac was not only a legend, because of his lyrics(sorry he is better than Nas), delivery, and beef with B.I.G. (always will be the Greatest). But the man had character. He was like he wasn't even a real human being!!! He had everyone knowing him even little kids across seas. Same for B.I.G. And Jay-z has that same thing. For Nas, it's something different. Everyone doesn't know him. I bet you if you walk up to an old person on the street and ask them if they know who Biggie, Pac, and Jay-Z is, they will say yeah. But if you ask them if they know Nas, they won't be able to respond as quick. I mean damn they even know Nelly and Ja Rule, because they all have character. And to show you it's not just TRL people, I bet more people know Snoop than Nas!! Now that's not saying they're better rappers they just have charisma. Nas is a great lyricist, but so is Jay-Z and Talib Kweli. Nas needs character and to stop being boring. He's one of the best of all time and if he learns to open up a little he might just make it to Biggie and Tupac status, cause he's not there yet. That's just my opinion. Don't nobody take it personal I'm just speaking the truth.

Jadakiss:"Everbody's a snake/that's why I keep the grass low/so I can see 'em when they coming"

B.I.G."King of NY" Jadakiss "Prince of NY" RUFF RYDEEEEERRRRRRRSSSSSS!!!!!!!

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 15, 2001.

Bakardi, I agree that more people know Jay than Nas. I agree that more people like Jay than Nas. And maybe Jay got the most charisma. I'd like to know how you know, but that's not the point. Jay can have all of that; he can have more fans, and can have more money. The problem is, people think that makes a great rapper. I doubt if Nelly is better known that Nas, but still none of that matters if you wanna talk about skill. Money, ice and all of that is pointless if y'all wanna talk about content. And all Jay Z fans know this. Most won't admit it, but 4real, most of the time Jay is rappin about nothing. Just read the post of those who defend him on here. They never really will say "Nas raps about pointless things and Jay raps about real issues." Nope, they will say Jay has more CDs or more money or blah blah blah. But if people were going to buy it...hey, I'd consider puting out nonsense too, (girls, girls, girls, Izzo. But I'd never say I was the best if that's all I did. And somebody explain to me why people are discussing blueprint 2. At least with Nas, people had heard one song. No one in the world has even heard Blueprint 2, not one track and they are telling me how tight it's gonna be. Really, I don't like going to concerts, but I'd go hear Nas before I'd go to Jay. And d, Jigga writes all of his stuff? Look in his CD cover dogg. Tell me why there are a rack of other names. And Nas didn't say he was the best, he mentioned Pac, and B.I.G. too. Jay said he was the best. Then you say that 50 cents probably writes for Nas. Like Big J said, "at least make sense with your arguments." Oh yeah, you also said BIG ripped it better against Pac. WHAT? I'm not gonna say anything about that; I'ma giving you a chance to correct that. About that freestyle thing... how would you know who can freestyle better? And how do you know they are really freestyling? And why would Nas attack Pac just because Pac dissed someone else? This ain't the streets, and Nas and them others were never fam like that (like on the same label or like Jada and Styles). Oh yeah, how do you know Jay is still chillin' in Marcy and why would he if he has so much money? Lastly, do you really live in queens? And Bakardi, after Pac, Jada is my fave, but I gotta admit, Nas is better.

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 15, 2001.

Mr G. R. WHAT! what the fuck are you smokin'. Does that shit stand for Mr Gay Retard? huh... Before I talk about what I came here to talk about, i'ma talk about you... Where the fuck do you "research it" kid, the school of dumbasses who dont know what they talkin' bout? Not only does Hova come up with ALL of his lyrics, he does it for half of the rappers out there today. Research that you ignoramus fuck (it means you stupid, you should be able to find it in the dictionary. I'ma let you decide what "fuck" means yourself).

Ahhh.... Now I got that out of the way, let me tell y'all sumthin'. Last night I had a bit of what y'all might call a revelation. Last night I listened to a show from NY done by the UKs Tim Westwood, Marly Marl, and DJ K-Slay. What they came up with was the history of the Nasty/Hova beef shit. They started off with Takeover, talked about it a bit, sayin' shit like, "I thought Jay won it right there...". Then they played Ether, sayin' shit like, "Woah Nas ripped Jay HARD, Nas might have won...", Yo, then up came SupaUgly... DAMN!, shit it white hot, and put Jay back in front. Y'all might think I'm just talkin' shit right now, but then it came to me. I'm sure most of y'all will agree with me on this, but if you dont, holla back and say why not! OK OK, here we go. Over the last few years, rap has been lacking, what more can I say (Dynasty, even I know it aint tight, and Nastradamus, none of y'all can tell me its tight. And this is coming from hip hops 2 brightest stars). But recently, mainly thanks to Jay- Z (I got to say Jay cos he started this whole shit off), and partly thanks to Nas (cos he answered to the call), hip hop is BACK. Straight up. Look up the muthafuckin' thread y'all and yous can see that I have always said Nas CAN be tight, he proved it in Illmatic, but I also say that he stopped being tight. But now I'm sayin' this... (and I heard most of STILLmatic now, nearly as good as the Blueprint) Nas is BACK, Hova is still on top. The other thing I got to say is that Rap is BACK. Rappers are startin' beefs with each other again, and that was a touchy subject ever since the Pac/B.I.G shit happened, now that Jigga has said they can do it. Other rappers out there know that to be able to compete with the likes of Nas and Jay-Z they gonna have to step up another level. Thats why i'ma be optomistic and say I think hip hop is coming back to the way it was when I fell in love with this shit.

They also played a load of Mobb Deep, Beanie, Lox and Memph freestyles. The only ones who can do it right are Beanie and Jada. P aint got shit on the mic.

Most underated rappers of all time... Pharoe Monch and Beanie Seigal. Most overated... Puffy and Prodigy


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 15, 2001.

Qoolout I agree. Jay-Z isn't saying a lot in his song "Izzo". BUT, Jay-Z already told us he's a business man. He doesn't care about nothing but making his money. If deep songs were making albums move a lot of units he'll be doing it. But for right now, it's the club and radio friendly songs. Every "real" rapper knows this. My 3rd fav. rapper of all time, DMX, has even changed a little from his songs so he can make more money (Get at me dog, and then Ain't no Other Cat Got Love, to Party Up). Jay-Z can make another type of album like Reasonable Doubt if he really wanted to, but he wouldn't make as much money off of it as he did Hard Knock vol.2. He's a business man and let's look at this from his position: Some of the top selling artists are people like Ja Rule, Nelly, and Ludacris. They are not that lyrical, but they make catchy songs that people find theirselves humming. Now on the other hand, people like Ghostface and Talib Kweli are struggling to go gold and they are real lyricists. What's wrong with this picture? Jay-Z is a business man and he looks at what everyone is buying and decides he wants to sell millions with catchy songs and not struggle with lyrics ( he said on DMX's album Flesh of my Flesh..."I'm trying to put up Will Smith numbers"). Is that not keeping it real? He told us what he's trying to do and he's doing it. I mean come on, what else could he possibly rap about anyway? He lives in the Hamptons, he isn't poor, he told us about his life on RD and vol.1!! Right now, he has plenty of cars, money, girls, his own clothing co. If people think back, they will realize he's rapping about the same thing B.I.G. had said in "Big Poppa". B.I.G. is the best of all time and he said it ("Money, h*es, and clothes/all a nigga knows). So people get it right. Jay's keeping it real.

Jadakiss:"I'm looking for the devil/cause money's the root of evil"

B.I.G. "King of NY" Jada "Prince of NY"

-- Bakardi (dwayne01@prodigy.net), December 15, 2001.

3:16, I don't know who started the beef, but it didn't start with "Takeover." "Takeover was a response to another song; some of the lyrics are at the very top of this thread. Bakardi, I never said Jay was not a business man. Read your post again and then read mine. I never said that Ja Rule, Nelly, and Ludacris were not the top selling artists. I was just saying that all of that other stuff is fine. It's great and I wish I was doing all of that. But at the end of the day, that doesn't make you a great rapper. Like you said, it makes you a business man. If we are talking about that part of it then yes, Jay wins. If we are talking about the better rapper then I think you know Nas wins. And as far as that "Will Smith numbers" thing... Jay also said he sold more than Will...sounds like a diss to me. But anyway, Jigga will never have Will Smith money. I won't even debate this fact with you. What else could he rap about? Plenty of stuff, but rapping about girls is kinda played out and I don't even know what an Izzo is. About RD and vol.1, truth be told, I never liked either one of them. Not hating just telling the truth... my fave Jig CD is Hard Knock. But my point is, you say he has plenty of cars, ice, money and girls...Maybe so, but does that make him the better rapper? And about him rapping about the same things as BIG..."How many of B.I.G. rhymes are gonna come outta [his...] lips?"

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 15, 2001.

before i start, man dont be talking shit about my fav group Mobb Deep son

I would rather be a rapper barley getting gold and staying true to myself than going 5x platinum having other faggots wright my shit and not being real. that may be ok for others but not for this nigga right here.

I saw that flamin faggot Gayz on unplugged and i am amazed he had enough balls to play takeover but only the women in the crowd was bobbin there heads to it. and from what ive heard on this board, the people of NY voted nas the new king of ny, gayz must have cried himself to sleep.

LOX, i joined that thing,man someone already took the name Big J so i had to pick another.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 15, 2001.

I'm pretty sure that hurt Jay-z a lot BigJ but I think he will ignore it though.And to 3:16, I know you are a Jay-z fan and all but the truth of how the beef started was back in 1995 way before the takeover. I wrote about it on November 7th on this board, I think you were not on here yet to see what I wrote so check it out.Bakardi you are saying the same stuff I have been saying since I first started to get into this board.I am happy to see that somebody has the same views as me on this board.But you are telling guys like Qoolout this for no reason because I already said those things to them a while back. Hopefully this can become a topic again because a lot of new people have come since I put that out there.Someone Holla Back please on this!I'm beggin ya!Please I know I don't get respect but voice your opinions still for goodness sake!

-- Hollywood Jaimison (awhollywood0838@cs.com), December 17, 2001.

When I said that Jigga started the beef, what I meant was that Jigga made it official. A lot of rappers would have responded to the very first track with just one line in a flow, not a whole verse. But anyway, the beef first started when Memphis took a lyric from a Nas track ("you wanna ball till you fall, I can help you with that") and decided to diss Nas back. Hova just took over.


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 17, 2001.

NAS IS THE BEST!!! He is most definte betta than JAYZ. No one can compare to Nas's style, the shit that he spit is just too hot.

-- (poetry7286@aol.com), December 17, 2001.

wuz it just me or was the site not working the past couple of days? well anyway...its working again evidently, lol.

yeah, Jay-z is a business man, everyone knows that and listen it depends on the person. hes in this cuz he loves it and knows he can make money off it and hes lookin for watever way he can make the most. others just love hiphop so much they don't give a shit bout the $$ and only care bout if people are feelin their lyrics and write it to get messages across and all that. it depends on the person and, like Hollywood said, its already been established people.

And Hollywood, wats this bout no one havin respect 4 u? i do and i ain't seen anybody sayin anything disrespectful to u. so don't be thinking that.

Just by the way i bought the Fabolous cd and i love it. i love the beats and the lyrics ain't bad at all. actually tho, something about them reminds me just a lil of jay. and since y'all got to talk about girls u be liking, i have the right to say that DAMN Fabolous is H-O-T. hehe

Oh yeah and here's some lyrics from Solitair's song Easy To Slip. The Canadian hiphop sound is diff. from any American stuff u'd hear its more mellow or something...i dunno but theres a difference...somebody help me out here? but anyway heres some lyrics...this ain't the whole song, just some random parts...

"I had a cousin named Derek/he hustled on my block/that nigga waz thug/i was not/14 years old, i watched him/he was the man i wanted to be and he was barely 16" .....
"It's so easy to slip/lets sing a song of mercy for youngins thats caught in the struggle/its so easy to fall/cause the devil's always trying to draw kids into trouble/its so easy to slip/we move like the sun over the ocean to see things clearer/its so easy to fall/feels like the only one checkin for u is the man in the mirror"...
"Drugs was a part of his life since he was born/His pops came home drunk and pissed on the lawn/and beat up his moms and they couldn't take it/his pops kicked him outta the house buck naked/he turned to his peeps, then turned to the streets/and turned his back on his scream-filled sleeps/his pop passed away but he never shed a tear, like a self-fullfilling prophecy made itself clear/i grew up watchin him/we kicked it now and then/sometimes i sit and wonder how life woulda been if i'd hustled with him/would i be dead too?/was a bullet thru the chest worth the shit he went thru?/fuck i ain't a hustler/my cousin packed a gun/and his memory's the reason i will never pack one/niggaz stay alive until ya peepz be true/or the next rhyme they write might be about u"

tell me wat u think

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Wow, what Can I Say?? It's been a while since I posted on here. But I can say this much. First I'm not trying to remember names but I will paraphrase and maybe quote some of you.

First off, This battle is the best thing for hip-hop right now. I've noticed that people have gone to their respective corners as if they're on the team. I, in particular, am a Nas fan. I even suffered with him through Nastradamus. I liked the early Jay-Z when he used to rap like the fu-schnikens. Nas is just the better MC. Record Sales are not a measuring stick. The people of New York, one of the few places that hold the integrity of hip hop, said Nas won. This was even after Jay-Z responded. I didn't hear the (Stillmatic) Albulm but I heard "Ether". Nas showed he still has it. I mean damn he called him J.J.Evans....LMAO. Supa-Ugly was nice But the "Ace-up-his sleeve" wasn't enough. Especially since he advertised it so hard in "Takeover". I give Jay-Z his due as an MC regardless of how gimicky he his in my opinion his still holds his. "Blueprint" was flames despite its commercialness. But Nas has more substance and more lyrical talent. And if his beats are not as nice (which they are), that is because he actually tries to be original. He has his own style. Samples are always nice and convienent. Altohugh Jay-Z still knows how to use his samples though I'll give him that. Another thing, I respect Pac and B.I.G., R.I.P. but Nas held his with them when they were here. Nas is the greatest MC ever anytime he's true to himself. He realized this afterwhile because he tried to be commercial to, but it wasnt him. Now he's back!!!!!! And he's Stillmatic. I'm a get the album tomorrow no doubt. I think the Hove releasing on the same day is Selfish,Jealous, and Personal. I'll wait a while if I get his joint. He doesn't want Nas to have a chance to shine which shows me that he's trying to show the power of his money and is intimidated by a Nas release to stand out on it's own. Deep down he may feel inferior.

It's sad that people use record sales and POPularity to identify who's better. Hip Hop wasn't created for that.

-- SecondSage (SecondSage@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Second Sage, I couldn't have said it better than that. NAS IS BACK!! The official king of hip hop/New York is Nasir Jones. Hot 97 had a vote online and by phone, and Nas won by 14%, Nas=57% and Jay Z=43%!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah dun tell me why in the hell did Flex try and rig the votes so that Jay Z could win....LOL. Also, after Angie Martinez told Jay Z the results why did dude sound like he was about to cry......LMAO. "Jaz" also made no sense in his interview with her, as every question Angie asked him, his response seemed suspect and hesitant.

"It's the N-A to the S-I-R/ if I wasn't it must have been Escobar"

"Your whole damn record label gunned up and clapped quick/ from Shawn Carter to Jay Z, damn you on Jaz dick"

One more thing, Adrian (Hillis) I can understand if the questions I asked you about the south is the reason why you haven't been on this board in a hot minute. It's aight though you and the slouchy ass south can throw in the towel.


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.


-- LOX (hot97kid@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Damn, The Best!!! You worried about me, huh? Damn, you NY cats can't hold it down in this thread without a little Southern flavor, huh bruh? I understand. New York ain't shit no more, so you and Sean Black gotta try and keep me around as much as possible so somebody will actually think about wack ass Queens. Before I argue about anything, I want to say Big J is no longer stuck on stupid. He's locked in ignorance. Plus I got some more flow for you Nas dickriders! Here we go "wo's!"

"POPPA WAS A PLAYA; however, his son go played/Step outside the streets of QB and catch hot spray//BLAZE A 50? How bout I blaze 50 QB chumps?/QB got nothin on DA SOUTH; QB can't get over the hump//Nas fans are hollerin, "Nas! YOU OWE ME!"/You claimin you STILLMATIC, well nigga, just show me//Nas, I GAVE YOU POWER! Nigga, god damn! I can't believe I trusted you and bought I AM//After your second LP, IT WAS WRITTEN/BLACK GIRL LOST along with Black men, cuz you musta been trippin//Get out that NEW YORK STATE OF MIND, no wonder you garbage/I used to respect you, but my heart is now hardened//Nasty Nas to Escobar? Oh Lord, are you kiddin?/I know I seen it all when Nas raps for 3 Little Women//Don't hate on Jay-Z, cuz he always rock a benzo/And you sittin there, forgotten, lookin out PROJECT WINDOWS"

I should ghost write. I'm so tight...

Anyway, The Best, bitch. I had finals to ponder, so I wasn't tryin to fool wit ya dumb ass, but hell, I got a little free time, so I'll drop a lil knowledge on you, Big J, Sean Black, and the rest of my peeps.

First off, mad shout outs to Qoolout, Hollywood, J-Dolo, 3:16, Lox (fuck Miami!), Bama (where you at cuzzin?), and to those I missed, charge it to my head, not my heart.

Sean Black? Big J already did that "What you talkin bout" bit, so you're late and played. Kind of like the borough you represent...

I hear some bullshit about the South sellin only to the South. Whatever. Would you rather sell a million in just Atlanta, or would you rather sell 100,000 all over the US? Hmmmm... So we buy our own music? Ya point? We still sell more DOWN HEAH than you do, because we appreciate MUSIC. And obviously, ain't nobody up North buyin y'all trash! We don't try and put a restriction on music. We buy what we want. We ain't worried about some NY dunnee goin, "Oh you bought that? That's not real hip-hop" cuz ypou NY cats don't know SHIT about making music. Stick to cipher sessions and dodgin "Jake." Ain't that "fresh?"

And learn how to read, The Best. I said we aren't trying to be "hip- POP!" Go back and read if you can in fact do so. You and Big J are some non-reading bastards. Is that a QB hangup? Anyway, like Pimp C said, we make COUNTRY RAP TUNEZ. Fuck you NY niggas who don't sell, who's albums flop. You sensitive fuckers should quit HATING and peep game.

Musa and Hollywood. I agree with y'all about them rappers not being true thugs. I find it amusing to hear people say they are really scared of Styles cause he'll take shit to the streets. Then I laugh when faggots get caught up in "this click saw this click and this shit happened" type bullshit rumors. I don't think Terror Squad would get close enough to Jay to snatch his chain. PLUS, Jay-Z has an image to uphold, so I know he wouldn't let that slide even if it were true. But eat it up, losers. Fantasize if you will. I choose to check out the effect their music has on the people and the industry. Which is why Pac is the best and Jay is better than Nas. If Nas woud get it together, fine. But until then, that overrated, one good album, 10 year old soundin, non actin in Belly ass QB trick need to get over his obsession with Jay-Z's success and status as King of NY. And as I said before, who gives a fuck about the King of NY crown? Eminem is 20 times better than Nas and Jay, which is funny because Nas clowns Jay because Eminem ate him up on his album. But Em would eat Nas up, too. Believe that.

Another thing, didn't Bleek start that war with Nas? Why did Nas punk ass go after Jay? I wonder if it was because he has nothing to prosper with attacking Bleek. The fag may need a career boost, and a Bleek-Nas beef wouldn't do it. "To be the man, you gotta beat the man." Eh, Nas???

Hollywood, this may be late, but I believe pop is music that is combined with soft subjects and dancing and attractive stereotypes. NYSYNC and Britney Spears and all their clones are definitely pop because their appeal lies mainly in their looks and their dance steps. Their music is ok, but it is specifically made to go diamond. Pop is formula. This + that = successful pop album (every time). No other genre of music does that. So when rappers go "pop," I believe it is because they have used a formula for success. For example, "Izzo" wreaks of pop. Snoop made the whole "fa scheezy, izzle, nizzle, etc." thing popular from his video "Snoop Dogg." So Jay took that basis and made a song. Plus he sampled a Jackson 5 song. That's pop. Then the video has every popular R&B artist in it. "Izzo's" purpose is all too clear. Make Jay money and make people buy his album. That, to me, is pop. I don't feel that rappers are pop themselves, but definitely do pop things and sometimes follow a formula. For instance, Nas having Ginuwine in a video. That's pop. I ain't hatin on Nas for that (I hate on Nas for being rap's #1 disappointment), but "You owe me" was definitely pop. So I hope that helps you, cousin.

The Best, do you like apples?


Well, I just took your little saying, and made it ten times better! How do you like them apples???!!! HA!

I'm out the kitchen, fellas! Peace!

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 17, 2001.

hahahaha Best, i figured he was about to cry. LOX man that board is crazy, they be talkin about how nas is an antichrist lol. 90% to 10% sounds right muahahahaha.

-- Big J (Makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.


-- BadBoyKILLAZ AKA MAKAVELI (thaoutlawz_2001@yahoo.com), December 17, 2001.

OH MY GOD!!!! Lox are you serious 90% to 10%....LMAO. I could believe that 'cause the cast of hot 97 are some "Jaz" dickryders and didn't want to make son look bad. Adrian are you stupid? For real dun, east coast "rap" doesn't sale? Q.B. artists don't sale? The south is uncontested? YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!! First off, every album of Nas's(Queens) went platinum, except Ill(you know the rest 'cause you have it in your collection....LOL), every album of "Jaz's" except RD went platinum, all of Ja Rules(Queens) albums went platinum (the person you think is holdin' the east down along with Jay Z...LOL, read your October 19 post), Fabolous's album went platinum, Method Man's albums go platinum, DMX's albums go platinum, Notorious's albums go platinum, all of the Wu's albums went platinum, Certian Mobb Deep(Queens) albums are platinum, certain Noreaga (Queens) albums went platinum, shyt even Puffy's albums go platinum. AND THAT IS ONLY NEW YORK, YOU DON'T WANT ME TO NAME THE WHOLE EAST........DO YOU? What about Tennessee...LOL (Muphuckas there still have problems with whites dating blacks....LOL) How many artists there go platinum? Or even further what about your "little hillbilly hick town", how many platinum artists are there? YEAH I KNOW. Face it dun, the east(Queens, New York) outdoes the south(your little hick town, Tennessee) in everything.....lyrics, beats, sales, fame, EVERYTHING!! I see that you are still posting those wack ass bars....for the sake of battling, STOP IT!! Why are you always bringing up "You Owe Me", you must like that song, I mean it did make you "bounce" FAGGOT!! Oh yeah you still haven't answered my question of why in the hell did you post "kiss my black ass" when you are WHITE!!! For the record son, don't ever do that again, I mean I know your race STINKS, but you can't help it....LOL

REVIEWS OF STILLMATIC: "Nas is the best writer in Hip Hop"-Vibe Magazine "This is his best album since Illmatic"-XXL Magazine "Nas has definitely returned to his early writing"-Spin Magaine

Adrian it's aight we know that you will be copping "Doggie Bag" and "Game Face" LOL along with "Stillmatic" tommorow.

"The bitch in Pimp C reflects the bitch in his fans"-me



-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

"Oh yeah you still haven't answered my question of why in the hell did you post "kiss my black ass" when you are WHITE!!! For the record son, don't ever do that again, I mean I know your race STINKS, but you can't help it....LOL "

yo best watch wat u say...just cuz ure pissed off at hillis u don't gotta go sayin that typa shit....

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

I meant "blood of a slave/ heart of a king"-Nas

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Good god Best, you ate his white ass up. like i told him before, he might as well not ever post anymore.

Now, Gayz fans are the worst man. ive been going to message boards all over trying to expose him but they will never listen.

Im not tryin to get into a race thing, buuuuuut since it was brought up.. i kinda gotta agree with best. if you study black history or history itself you will see that the white race is the worst race in the entire planet. touch up on ya history niggas.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Check this out ma, who the phuck are you? First off, I am not "pissed off at hillis", I am just letting dun know. I hope that you aren't offended...LOL. Caucasians have been downing African Americans for millineums, and now I lace a little joke and u want to get flamed. "Stephanie" you better calm yo ass down and thats for real for real. Like I said this is internet talk, and I'm not an "internet gangsta" so I can't possibly get mad at Adrian...LMAO. You don't see me on this site lacing shyt like "kiss my white ass" do you. The nigg.....(nah can't say that), dun is fiction, and I'm just letting him know that. Now you say I "best" watch what I'm saying.....LOL. For real....YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME!!!! It seems to me that you are "pissed off at 'THE BEST'". Don't get mad at me 'cause I am lacing a joke towards the Caucasian race, take it like damn "we" do think that "we" are a little bit to cool at times and try extremely hard to be black, but in the long run "we" just make complete idiots out of "ourselves". Now I knew that you would see it my way....LOL. In the future ma, don't reply to me 'cause your waisting my time and yours.

"heart of a SLAVE/ blood of a king"


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

Oh and Willi, you dont want me to come back into this arguement. because like before, you will be humiliated.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 17, 2001.

The Best, you have given me so much material to work wit (thanks, jackass), but I gotta address Big J. You do not want it with me, you faggot ass power foward wannabe. I find it hard to believe a little punk bitch from VA steadily screamin QB is man enough for Georgetown. Big Gay, you are nothing. Literally nothing. You have no good points. You are cliched and wack. I put little (if any) effort in responding to anything you say because you have not fully developed your mind. At least The Best has coherent thoughts that are fully developed into an argument. He's just always wrong; that's The Best's only problem. He is complete trash, but at least he is profound trash. You still sound like a senior in high school...

Now to The Best (who ironically resembles nothing about his moniker)... First off, I can't believe you would go off and talk shit to a 16 year old white girl in an internet thread! No offense to Steph, but damn dunnee! I thought you was supposed to be a grown up man, and here you is arguin with females. At least Big J is somewhat of a male. I know I bring it to you every time dunnee, but that's no reason to run and find a damn chick to talk shit to. And all that racist White folk garbage? What the hell was that all about? You got some unresolved issues. Seek help, dun. Did some white boy take ya lunch money in 6th grade and you haven't forgot? Is some white dude bangin ya mama and clownin you in front of the niggas? Did you catch Nas gettin his dick sucked by a White man and feel like Nas was cheatin on you? Why you hate White folks so much? Why is that since we're clashing in a thread, you label me a White boy? Hmmmm... I see some serious psychological issues. Fine, "wo." We can squash the beef right now and I'll go get ya bike back from that White boy who stole it from you, ok?

I know you probably cryin now, The Best (seein as how I brought up some repressed memories), but wipe ya tears and try to read the rest of my post. You named them NY cats who went platinum, but I can name mad niggas in DA SOUTH who went platinum. Multiple times, too. For example, Jermaine Dupri keep him a platinum hit. And he been doin that since 1991. DA SOUTH still sells more, dunnee. And you know it. As far as dem Queens whores you mentioned, Noreaga and Mobb Deep flat out suck dick. Prodigy is now trash, Havoc has always been trash, and Noreaga gets no play DOWN HEAH cuz that nigga is weak. Yeah, I said Ja Rule holds down NY, but I also said Ja Rule isn't impressive and he's now an R&B singer. Did you read that, too? Obviously not. You can't read. Before you respond, maybe you should read EVERYTHING I post and not little snipits.

As far as wack ass bars go, I just can't believe you haven't come up with more diseases for yo lyrics. Hmph. Guess them hoes on life support cause your rappin is extremely suspect. But damn, you are from QB...

Yeah, The Best, I bring uop You Owe Me a lot. Yeah I liked the beat, you FAGGOT! But it was still pop as fuck. And I'll bring up YOU OWE ME, NASTRADAMUS, YOU WON'T SEE ME TONIGHT, HATE ME NOW, the 3LW song, the Mariah Carey song, the travesty that is the WHAT'S GOIN ON remake, and last and definitely least, his complete garbage on Missy Elliot's HOT BOYS (rmx). And don't forget that Oochie Wally mess. The only thing good about that song was the beat (again, production is everything) because all of the lyrics were HORRIBLE. Damn, Nas clownin Jay-Z for stealin BIG's lines, then he steals Snoop's lines? Snoop?! C'mon. If I'ma steal lines, I think I'd pick BIG. But that's just me. So while you continue to ride Nas' dick and hate on Jay-Z for being "pop" or "fake," Nas did the same shit. And I find it funny how you Nas nuthuggers love to try and cover it up for Nas sayin he messed up, but he learned he has to stay street. Sure. GOT YOURSELF A GUN is extremely gritty, eh Nas? LMAO. I wouldn't buy Stillmatic if I Nas got himself a gun and put it to my head. Nas is a fake, a phony, and "Rap's #1 Disappointment."

Damn, dun! Got you quotin Vibe and XXL. Hmmm, didn't Eminem let us know about XXL? "Nas' best album since Illmatic." That ain't sayin much. "Nas is the best writer in hip-hop." So? I ain't never hate Nas' lyrics, just him being "Hip Hop's Biggest Waste of Talent." Face it, Nas is a huge letdown. On a different note, are y'all still ducking and hiding everytime a plane flies around NY?

Nice slave reference FAKE BOY! But you ain't been a slave, so I don't know why you talkin shit about that! You don't know one slave, and you haven't been close to their pain. In fact, you're from the North so I know you don't know shit about slavery. Slavery was unfortunately DOWN BOTTOM, so you can run ya wack ass back up North with the rest of the carpetbagging "niggers" while us real niggas DOWN HEAH carry the weight of the world on our shoulders. The Best, I GUARANTEE you would have been a house nigga...

"The cum from Nas reflects the cum in The Best's mouth" -me

Oh, one more thing The Best. I wrote kiss my black ass because I wanted him to kiss my ass because it was black. But since you think I'm White, how bout dis: "NIGGER! NIGGER! COON! BUCKWHEAT! MONKEY! NIGGER! NIGGER! Hmmm... I don't seem too worried about ya threats. You said I better stop doin that shit. You threatenin me? I thought you ain't do that shit on an Internet site? Thought you wasn't a computer gangsta? You lil bitch, you ain't shit. You as full of crap as most everybody else on this fuckin thread. Go back to attackin 16 year old White girls. You ain't ready for a real Black man.

Keep it real, bitch...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 18, 2001.

Adrian, Adrian, Adrian, you seem a little flamed...LOL. For the record you are WHITE, so once again stop trying to be black. Oh yeah and Steph, she came at me first, and I wasn't "arguing" with her just had to let ma know to mind her own business on the "internet". Now take a look at my e-mail address, the name looks weird, unthinkable, unlike Adrian, Brad, Mike, Bill, Bob etc... yeah I know it's AFRICAN. So yeah that is my first name and it means "the best of everything" in Ebo, translation for your WHITE ASS....the main language spoken in Nigeria. Oh I may not have been a slave, but I have been to Nigeria, Etheopia, and Niger numerous times and there are signs of the same shyt happening to the Africans that happened to them millineums ago. Oh yeah Adrian...and you say your black?? LMAO, I am half African, not just your typical African American because I am black, but 50% of my blood is African Blood. You say I would be a home boy down south LOL. For real dun, I attend school down south, and there is nothing "DOWN THEAH" that would keep me in the house LOL. Wo, dudes in the south are so artificial, the way they act, the way they dress (fake iceburg, fake ballys, fake coogi, fake EVERYTHING), their "game" spitting tactics at the ladies, THEIR MUSIC etc.... Dun, on the other hand I bet you couldn't last one evening in 41st side Queens. Not only will cats disect your white ass, but the pace is too fast for your slow COUNTRY ass (muphuckas still have street lights hanging from wires....LMAO) Now I see you addressed that racist topic very well, but you still haven't answered my question of how many "platinum rappers" your little hick town, Tennessee has produced? "HA", "YOU UNDERSTAND"!!! Now on the topic of Nas, don't lie to yourself you know that you will be at Sam Goody, no wait cats don't have on of those "DOWN THEAH", how about "Buba's Music Shop" at 6:00 a.m. to cop STILLMATIC. Always knockin' Nasty on his attempt at commercialism, but that is all the south ever puts out, so WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON.....COMMERCIALISM OR REAL HIP HOP!!! Oh I get it, you guys don't do collabos with Ginuwine and shyt "HA", instead you lace tracks like "Get it from her moma", and "Tryin' to take my style" (WHAT STYLE TIMS AND ICEBURG...SORRY THAT'S THE EAST STYLE, STICK TO WEARING TEES, GIRBAUDS, AND REES) LMAO. Oh and on the callaboration note, it seems like Mystikal was really excited to do one with MARIA CAREY. For example, on 106 and Park quote....FREE: "If you had a choice to go on tour with any one in the music business who would it be?" MYSTICAL: "MARIA CAREY!!"......YEAH I KNOW. Damn another thing you say that all east cats sound the same, well shyt Miracle sounds like Drama who sounds like Pastor Troy who sounds like Silkk tha Shocker who sounds like well you know the rest Adrian. You say Nas stole Snoops line?! Then what in the phuck do you call "Welcome to Atlanta's' chorus...A REMIX OF SNOOPS LINE....IDIOT!! Like Martin once said "anything the south can do, the east can do, but we can also do it BETTER!!" Now you really have a reason to be FLAMED....LOL WHITE BOY.

"For the record you could suck my dick"-Nas



-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

See, this is the reason Hova, and Nas is beefin', they probably had a miscommunication via email, now they talking bout' each others mammy's and shit. why'ont bof yall nigga calm the phuck down, das whats wrong with yall up state niggas, yall drank to much coffee or sumphin, stop bein so uptight, loosen up, RELAX.... Phuck 'round have a epilepsy attack,or mad cow disease or some shit like that. hell, my boold pressure all uppity and shit,got me frustrated readin' all this annamoseti,......anamoitie,....annamos,......"phuck it" hatred.

now back to the subject at hand.J's on top right now, Nas has the ability to take him, ut he's got to find the will power to do it.and it'll be fun to watch him try.

jada had beef with beanie, heard beanies reply?.......nuff said. who else got beef?

-- kazper (aehawkeye@blackplanet.com), December 18, 2001.

whoa,...Whoa,...WHOA,....slow down shawty, i can see you gaot beef with the white boy, to each his own, but, uhh,... the whole south aint bout to sit here and take this shit, feel me. I know, we got a couple of whack rappers, im not gonna lie, but you not gonna tell me that everybody i NY is tight as hell......... thank you. yeah we a lil slower than yall with fashions, but we wear what we wear,......and most of us make it look good, try to anyway, now ima man, ima resect those who respect me, but dont go off on erebody over, one ignant Whiskey Bravo (white boy). aint gon be to much mo of that, now the east and west had beef, the south's always be neutral,( that southern hospitality) but, uhhh, aint no reason to start none, cause like our spokeman said " aint no confederates off up in this settlement, but the south will rise. "

cuntry to the fullest,

that other nigga.

-- kazper (aehawkeye@blackplanet.com), December 18, 2001.

k i havn't read all the new posts yet just Bests and im not pissed/offended or anything i wuz just tellin u......ure overeacting all i did wuz comment on it. i guess cuz its just in writing so u can't tell expression and shit but yea, i meant nothing bad.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

hey i just read how this shit started, i wanna recap what i said, you know. ididnt realize one of my fellow southerners started this shit. remember when i said we had some weak rappers........... my point exactly. Adrian, comon' if you gon call out the whole fucking state of NY, you gotta at least come with a rhyme niggas wanna compete with. here i am taking up for the whole south, and you spittin shitty boo boo like that, damn dog.........

a niggas feelins hurt and shit, but ima man i can take my shit back. i aint got nothin but luv for tha game.but the point still stands, you step disrespectful, it'll be the last step you take.i am far from the best lyrically, but uhh... i can hold my own.

that other nigga

-- kazper (aehawkeye@blackplanet.com), December 18, 2001.

Ah, "Kazper", I take it that you are from the Atl. from your "shawty" reference. Dun I don't have any beef over the internet, just had to let "Bryant Gumbel" LOL know. Now honestly you think that Jay Z is on top right now? Be serious. Wo, Jigga Mans street cred in NY is damaged. Dun was destroyed in the King of NY debate like 90% to 10%. He was on hot 97 talking about how Nas is desrespectful, and how he is sorry that this beef got out of hand. Wo also apologized to his moms in the interview...LMAO. Nas was on their yesternight talking about "Hova is Ova" LOL and that "The Dynasty is dying NASTY". Nasty also said that if Jay Z is worth over a "100 million" that he should be on his yacht somewhere and not worrying about Nas. After he said this the hot 97 crowd phuckin' ERUPTED!! There were females callin' in feeling sorry for Jigga Man and everything dun. Face it, dun should not have crossed Nas's path and that's for real for real. All of Jay Z's brainwashed fans are starting to realize that he isn't the God emcee that he proclaims he is. Lets just say Nas has "FINISHED HIM" like Mortal Kombat.

"Owe me back like 40 acres to blacks"-Nas (Commercial, but still has gutter references) FROM YOUR FAVORITE ADRIAN "YOU OWE ME"


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

well now i've read everything and fuck i don't even wanna comment but anyway Hillis said it all, even tho it wuz mildly putting me down but its all good, u said a lot of real stuff in that post. but I just wanna say, best i think ure overeacting on the whole african thing. just calm down a bit alrite?

and where have 3:16 and Qoolout dissapeared to???

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Willis first off im not from gay ass VA, i live here bitch and in the next couple of years look for the name Hobson on the back of an NBA jersey and number 22, and ill look for your name on the back of a milk carton if you ever come to NY son. You suppose to be a lawyer right? yet you cant even put up a decent argument against a 17 year old! and to quote a modified nore line"they say im to heard, them niggas to soft, straight pussy, i heard they suck dick down south". And like my nigga Q said to manny "You are making it too easy; you're embarrassing yourself. Do you care? Just go ahead and bow out now; have some self-respect". bringing up that plane thing was wrong you mouse fucking hillbilly. I know you want it so much to be black but you gotta stop the pig rapeings and the cow fisting first dun, lose the carolina boots, the nut hugger wrangler jeans and put a shirt on ya fat son of a bitch. its almost christmas time so ill give you a gift and not destroy you today.

I was wrong about bubba sparxxx(the one willis dreams he could have sex with) he can actually flow better than any of the downsouth rappers despite his poor performance on SNL. he flows almost better than kiss on that new video. and Steph what i said wasnt meant to be hateful but your race has done things probably the devil himself fines disgusting.

sup to my niggas... yall know who you are.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Damn, I missed something......"Oh, one more thing The Best. I wrote kiss my black ass because I wanted him to kiss my ass because it was black."-Adrian For real, Adrian it WAS black, damn dun what color is it now, let me guess.....WHITE. You phucking FAGGOT, you're giving yourself away LOL.

"Never speak to fools cause they scorn the wisdom of your words"-Nas "All I need is ONE MIC"-Nas


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

i meant they say im too hard

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

yeah im liking Bubba Sparxxx. andi like his voice 2 its like different.
yeah Big J, its cool and ure right. but so has every race. and im not like white american who's family has been in america for hundreds of years. my grandparents and greatgrandparents came from lebanon to montreal and everyones been living here so if ure talkin bout the slavery shit thats not *my* race. and honestly and don't get wats up with ppl when they go accusing ppl for things people who they never met in their lives have done but who just happen to originate from the same country that they do. thats wat i call fucked up.

but anyway big j, its all good.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

steph, this comes in as little disrepect, as humanly possible, we,...no i'll rephase that, suma us, as colored folk, cant go back in time and curse out all the massa's and misses.so you the closest thing to them. i under stant you aint from roun' here.shit nunna us is,but. some ignant ass folk.dont care, so dont get all uppity,......like i always say, RELAX,....its life.

Bubba tight, just for the simple fact that he don't rap.that nigga be talkin and making that shit rhyme. he got some skillz too. but the truth will be known after we see can he keep it coming.

that other nigga

-- kazper (aehawkeye@blackplanet.com), December 18, 2001.

alrite i see where ure comin from kazper. so lets drop it now k?
and i agree w/ u about bubba too.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Yo!, theres this track i got which describes to y'all all the shit i just read. "yo back to the topic-a/the rap philosopher/with more drama than a soap opera" - thats by the Roots, you should cop it (not Manuva). HAHA! Best, "b-e-s-t, get gunned up and clapped quick". I know you say you aint, but you is kid, yous some kind of internet gangster. I bet you got yourself walkin through Compton or Watts with a desert eagle or .45 stuck in ya draws, big ass spliff in ya hand, tattoos across your belly on your screen saver. OK, seein as we gonna be internet gangstas for a while... hmmm... i'ma rob your stupid ass, then i'ma shoot you in the kneecaps. When you come outta hospital in a wheelchair, i'ma do it again. All of this to the tune of "Sound of the police". You sound white yourself kid. Whats wrong? Been listenin to too much NWA, seen Boyz in the Hood once too often?

Steph, i'm back. I just had a lot of shit to do. The mood is about to change!

Yeah i copped STILLmatic. After y'all shoutin bout it all the fuckin time (and seein as i already wasted money on all of Nas' other CDs) i thought it was gonna be the end of hip hop as we know it. Dont kid yourselves fellas. STILLMATIC IS NOT AS GOOD AS THE BLUEPRINT! i'ma say that again in case a couple of y'all aint hear me the first time, STILLMATIC IS NOT AS GOOD AS THE BLUEPRINT! it does got tracks on it that are better than the tracks on Blueprint, but "Smokin'" i aint lyin when i say thats one of the worst tracks i heard in a long time, but i gots to shout out "one mic" "destroy and rebuild" and "got yourself a gun", they tight, even i know that shit.

Will the real HARRISON BUSH please stand up. Sorry kid, i know i embarrased you by puttin your name up hear, but when you send dudes e- mails, your alias dont come with it. Harrison Bush, HAHA!!! Damn! i'ma have to start some kind of "where is Harrison Bush type of crusade or shit. HAHA! i know its a Nas fan.

"Y'all all on my dick, thanks for the compliments/but you be fucked up by my table of contents" - Black thought


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 18, 2001.

DAMN! Bubba's black aswell!

-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 18, 2001.

Damn, fuck NAS and GAY-Z,my fault Jay-Z I'm not a hater, I'm lookin at The Best and Hillis. Like Clue said "The Battle's ON"!!!!

Anyway,to the (original)topic, I just got "Stillmatic", I only heard half of it. What I heard has the makings of dethorning "Blueprint" even if it's not better. The fact he came back when Jay-Z cornies said he couldn't says he's not over. Nas is too strong of an MC to just lay down.

Not to get on this whole East-South thing but I'm from NY but I spent much time in ATL (The heart and Capital of the south). I've had my arguments with GA cats, hell, some were even wars. I feel like a retired veteran in that aspect. But I have to say this, The South doesn't hold the integrity of hip-hop. They measure success by record sales - as the every other region except the East.

When rap started (in NY) the better MC was the better lyricist because the battle was in the streets, not the studio, not the record stores. The beats were kicked by a third party so they were the same and that didn't really matter. That's why most responces to disses are on the same beat, hence "super ugly". Over time, lyrical talent developed in NY and heads in NY still recognize the evolution of lyrical talent. It's still the place to judge true skills. Unfortunetly, when Hip-Hop (Rap) spreaded from region to region, this integrity wasn't kept. But no-one (Outside the east) cared because they didn't see the evolution happening. So they bought whatever sounded good, which usually meant left over samples and familiar choruses meaning in order for a song to get respect it had to be a familiar sound. Hip-hop still couldn't stand on it's own and be respected by everybody (I'm talkin about late 80's and early 90's). Most of the records that sold were because of the familiar sound. Mainly on the west-coast. Because they sold more records the WEST claimed to be better. That was the source of the EAST-WEST rivalry. The rest of the world labeled true hip-hop, which evolved over time as "east-coast" style, making all other "half-baked" stuff legit. As rap became more and more of a business rappers on the east realized that they were gonna have to do some watered-down, half baked "commercial" shyt. But the east never lost their integrity of lyrical talent. This is why I get heated over someone saying an MC is better cause he sells more. In fact the votes are in. NAS won the battle, and Jay-Z had the last shot, he threw the last punch. This vote was takin in NY, where the integrity of being an MC is first. Even Jay-Z knows this. He knows that he can win everywhere else but He lost where it COUNTS!!!!

******Oppression on Black people is global. It's done by whites, arabs jews (also white), asian, and indians(from asia).**********

As far as this post goes, none of us see each other so let's not get personal, no matter how entertaining. Let's try to use convincing arguments to make a point.

-- SecondSage (SecondSage@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

Talkin of internet gangstas! Bad Boy KILLA MAk.... whatever the fuck... biggie is on hoves first joint, so i proved your first point wrong, and second all that MMMMAAAAAAKKKK.... lives on bullshit (makin the damn page wider). I seen them pictures. Theres your second point out the window. I would be dead to if that shit happened to me!

HARRISON BUSH, you related to George? Harrison? huh? Harrison? callin Mr Harrison Bush, non kyoto muthafucka, i aint gonna stop lookin. HARRISON!?!

Shout out all the girls (aint just Steph is it Best?) and boys on this thread. Qoolout, Hollywood, Bama, J-dolo, everyone I aint mention, you read my shit anyways so HAHA! One love.


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 18, 2001.

Aight its cool steph but i get pissed when i think about slavery and even after it was abolished,segregation and all that bullshit.

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

well i just bought Stillmatic and im listenin 2 it now. im only on track 2 tho lol so i ain't got much to say yet. Stillmatic is good and Ether i'd already heard and i really like it. but compared to the Blueprint...wat ive heard so far its close....im not sure yet.

3:16, its good 2 finally have u back. heh u told Best. and wats this Harrison Bush shit?? im not following that.

anyway when i got more to say about Stillmatic i'll be back.

-- Steph (kiwi922@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Nas won the fucking battle with 'one mic'. I used to like Jay-z but going after Nas is bullshit, as well as disrespectful. You can't deny he is a great rapper even if you hate him. He made fucking Illmatic. So with all the bullshit rappers out there nowadays he's going after Nas? I thought the Blueprint was one of the best albums i heard the last couple of years but Nas is right that Eminem murdered jay on Renegade. So that proves jay isn't really a skilled rapper. He's got a cool flow and great beats but with a 100 mil. you can hire anyone to produce your shit. Im glad though he woke up Nas. Stillmatic rules.

-- Me (fuckoff@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

I've just finished Stillmatic. Here's my critique. Nas is BACK!!!!! Even if this album is not as good as Illmatic he has done his thing. For the first time he didn't regress as he did in all of his previous albums. He cleared the air with friends, foes, fans, and society.

He doesn't want beef with anybody in QB. He destroys cause he has to. He choose to rebuild. He set Jay straight with the help of true fans of hip hop (not record sales and gimmicks), NYC. He showed his fans (including me) that he's still NAS, still lyrically potent, Stillmatic. But back to hov, NAS kicks knowledge for real, something I don't think Jay-Z is capable of. But, then again, Hov took it to society in his own way. But Nas lays out, for the most part, the real problems of the world. A bold move that may cost him in material, will J take that risk???

Stillmatic is better then Blueprint in my opinion. Nas' beats on this LP are authentically NAS. They're a compliation of what he produced his entire career, good and bad.

My favorite track beat wise - 2nd childhood Lyrically - What goes around...

I'm a knowledge head, Mos Def, Roots, Common, Kweli. Nas' last two songs are in that category.

Nasir Bin-Oluda-Ra Visqu Allah...........Lives

Hip Hop .........Lives

-- SecondSage (SecondSage@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Damn, why is it that everytime I get at Hillis, I have to encounter S.S.S. Austin? I mean are you phucking Adrian LOL. Austin get Adrians dick out of your mouth dun. This is a arguement between fellow AMERICANS, so you can take your EUROPEAN ass some where else wo, and that's for real for real. I think I will address you on thinking that the Blueprint is a better album than Stillmatic....HONESTLY, YOU MUST BE LISTENING TO THE WRONG STILLMATIC OR KRS'S BLUEPRINT!! So now I am scared to go to Watts, Compton, or L.A. right? And where are you from, Great Britian...LOL. I am suprised that you dudes get to hear "rap" music FAGGOT!! For the record, stay out of issues that don't concern you 'cause it is evident that no one was "typing" to you "MATE". Oh yeah now back to the original reason I was going to post. I just copped Stillmatic and the shyt is FLAMES. A 10 MIC CLASSIC NO DOUBT!! The hot tracks are Ether, Got Urself A Gun, You're Da Man, Rewind, One Mic, 2nd Childhood....PHUCK IT the whole phucking album is mad tight!! The shyt is selling out everywhere, and Nas is number 1 on the U.S.A. (3:16) BILLBOARD CHARTS for the best single with Got Urself a Gun.

"Ima George Bush killa till George Bush kills me"-Nas

-- The Back (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

I meant The Best!

-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

true, I did get the last 2 copies for me and my little brother for lunch.

-- SecondSage (SecondSage@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.





-- Montrail (Sionilli2@yahoo.com), December 18, 2001.

To Big Gay Hobson:

I understand. You got a cousin that's good at hoopin? Oh wait. You're gonna have an NBA replica jersey made with your name on the back? Good luck with that, bitch. Hoop dreams at 17 is cute, but we'll see where ya hoop dreams is at in a few years. LOL. If I ever go to NY "son" I'll be safe. You all will be too busy prayin that Al Qaeda ain't near. If you think they brought it to ya, then wait til you start jihad with DA SOUTH! Did I offend you, NY dunnee?

To kazper:

A fellow Southern playa comin at me like that! Before I respond, I just want you to scroll back up and look at what The Best said on November 27th. I quote: "I have no remorse for the WACK AZZ SOUTH!! you cats are wack, you duns don't know real hip hop." That's the shit The Best said about DA DIRTY. So I reponded. I started none of the shit. As a matter of fact, me and my boy LOX had a lil beef about DA SOUTH, but we squashed that and I had moved on. But The Best had to bring that shit up again and I felt the need to defend the bounce that we believe in DOWN BOTTOM. And I don't know what ya heard but I'm a Black American. The Best has issues which I will explain in a minute. Like my nigga Qoolout, I don't actually desire beef with you (as you are from DOWN HEAH), but if you feel the need to come after me, I will entertain your beef request.

To Second Sage:

I'm feelin you, I just don't agree with you. Yeah, NY sarted hip-hop, but I don't think the integrity was ever lost. Things just changed. I mean seriously, would you fault Bernie Mac for some of the lightweight topics he does in his comedy? I mean, why does everything have to be serious and deep? Why can't cats have fun and be entertained? So what DA SOUTH ain't particularly deep? I don't feel like we are trying to be deep. We're trying to be good musicians. Entertainers, if you will. I never said anything about the east's lyrics. I just say that the east lacks in musical skill. And I never said anything about Nas' potential or his writing. He's just a big disgusting waste of God given talent and all that shit about he is better than Jay is complete garbage because Nas is livin off one LP! I mean, you can say Nas is King of NY and I'm glad that means something in NY, but nobody else cares. Even though me and kazper aren't on the best terms right now, but I agree with him when he says you east coast cats need to loosen up.

To 3:16:

I see you noticed that gay ass nigga The Best still yappin at da mouth about "Fallen And He Can't Get Up" Nas. And that nigga do be talkin all this shit about internet gangsta, but steadily tellin me I couldn't last in Queens. Faggot ass Queens ain't special. Don't even waste ya time with that, bitch. Let ME have all the fun clownin this nigga. Naw, wait. That's selfish on my part. Go ahead and fuck with his dumb ass. That nigga is so weak, he whinin for you to leave cuz you in England. Ain't that some bullshit. I'm a man. I'll beef with anybody...from Mongolia to Poland. I don't give a fuck. But The Best has a heart filled with slushee so I shouldn't expect much out of him. Keep on doin what ya do, cuz. Holla.

Qoolout, what's up? Where ya been, dawg. Bama! Long time no see. J- Dolo, what's da biz? Lox, big baby! Go Huskers! Hollywood, we need some more knowledge dropped. What's up with Nas and Jada doin songs for Jigga? Steph, fuck them angry niggas. They get pissed pcikin cotton out of an aspirin bottle...

The next post is for the fake Shaka Zulu in this thread...

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbitl.edu), December 18, 2001.

LMAO, The Back

-- Big J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.


Yadda, yadda. What's up Shaka Zulu's lil cousin?! Yeah, I'm talkin to you, Nchekwubeiusehguafhaofhhfhoafhapor! I finally realize why you so angry! You ain't ate in like a year. You over in Africa starvin and you mad at US born niggas like me eatin everyday! I understand now. Or maybe ya pops is too busy out drivin his cab to get you somethin to eat. I know you all too well, Nchekwubewqiurtyiuwyt. When in public, you try to spit American slang like "dun" and "wo." But behind closed doors you and ya tribal leadin daddy stick a bone inm ya nose and talk that Ebo stuff. Then one day some American niggas caught ya ass in that ancestral shit, and starting mocking ya rain dance ritual. So now you pissed at all Black Americans. I'm glad you're proud of being 50% African. That shit don't mean nothing to anybody but you and Erykah Badu.

Anyway, for those who didn't catch it, Nchekwubewqi279562(#&Q%^ is "The Best" and I need to ask The Best one question: Would you mind STAYING OFF MY DICK???!!! Come on, dawg. You try and say me and 3:16 is "phuckin" but I been said that about you and sissy ass Big J Hobson weeks ago. I did that already, son. Try again, dawg. Try again.

Nigga, I guarantee you would have been a house nigga. It's usually niggas that talk the most shit about White folks that gotta suck they dick the most. Ain't you gonna be an engineer? How many Black/African bosses you think you gonna have. Bitch, you'll be answerin "Yes suh, no suh" better than any nigga I know. CRAB AZZ DUNNY!!!

Ok, The Best, time to play your race game. You ready? "Hey, I'm White! Fuck all the NIGGERS!" Wow, that was fun The Best! Did that make you angry? I'm White and I'm talkin to you, monkey boy. Go back to Africa so you can starve to death ya mom and pops! Ouch. My bad. Bring up repressed memories again?

"Hey, nigga! What's the capital of Zimbabwe? - I don't know that shit. Keepin it real!" - Chris Rock

Yeah. Real dumb.


-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 18, 2001.

The World Trade Center before the planes (standing tall and proud) = Nas after Illmatic (basking in the glory of a classic, standing tall)

Plane 1 (assaulted the WTC) = 2Pac (assaulted Nas' character)

Plane 2 (caused the most damage to the WTC) = every Nas album other than Illmatic, dat QB 2001 trash, all them collabos that were garbage, and (this is for The Best) YOU OWE ME featuring Ginuwine! (destroyed Nas' fan base and did most damage to Nas' career)

The World Trade Center after the attacks (rubble) = Nas today (career in shambles, hopin Stillmatic is half as good as Bluerint)

Dead folks in the remains = The Best, Big J, Sean Black, and all Nas dickriders who haven't realized that Nas is now trash and Stillmatic will not erase 7 years of disappointment

Kind of makes ya think, eh dunnees?

"Nasty Nas to Escobar, now he is a waste of breath" - me

-- Hillis 3000 (adrian.j.hill@vanderbilt.edu), December 18, 2001.

tsk tsk tsk, Willis i would have expected much more out of you. your alright in battling but your suppose to be a lawyer so your really suckin right now(a cows cock). Yo Master Percy(P)AKA the souths savior, is coming out with a new TV show with lil Romeo(The boy Willis dreams about) coming out with a TV citcom on NICKALODEON. Percy says that its going to be a modern day patrige family. hmmm aint Percy suppose to be from the hood? damn i didnt know they watch alot of patrige family down south. anyway im sure willis will be tunin in for that load of shit show. hoop dreams at 17 cute? wow you expect me to be like 27 lookin to START basketball? proves you know nothing about basketball ya hick. oh and you say the east needs to lighten up?(willis is light enough lol) well everytime we do faggots like hillis say its pop or some shit like that, but when some corny ass southern bitch comes out with something like she get it from her momma, niggas want to talk about how cool the song is. damn make up yo mind SON. and if your`gonna make fun of an event that had 5000 people killed then just plain and simple, fuck you, and thats not an offer you sicko.

i was about to submit but then i read your second gay ass post. if your black(which you claim to be) your being racist even to your own race(or not since your white).


-- BIG J (makaveli_outlawz@hotmail.com), December 18, 2001.

Dun, it looks like someone is really flamed huh Adrian. I mean did I destroy someone's feelings by talking about the caucasian race LOL. Nice African jokes you "nincompoop", but you will have to come better....no make that WAY BETTER than that one dun. It's o.k. Adrian, just because none of the black people in Tennessee will accept you, I promise "we" will accept you on this board, AND YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TRY AND BE COOL LOL. Don't get angry at me 'cause you will graudate with a degree in law, but since you live "DOWN THEAH" you will only be able to make $7 K a year LMAO (damn can't buy anymore Bugle Boy and Wrangler Jeans). You know "DOWN THEAH" cats got to have four or five jobs to survive. You know you are probably right, I might be a "house nigga" "DOWN THEAH" because the nearest Wal-Mart, Mall, Gas Station, Movie Theater, phuck it HOUSE is about 4 1/2 hours away LOL....COUNTRY ASS NIGG.....Nah can't say that, how about CRACKER!! Damn, dun you got the nerve to mention the Sep. 11th events. Is that funny to you, really? Don't get me wrong Osama and his boys would of crahsed those planes into Tennessee......no wait they wouldn't have because they don't have any potential targets except for a 100 acre farm with thousands of pigs, ardvarcs (spelling), and Adrians LOL. I am fully convinced that that was you and your fam on the "Get Crunked Up" video, and no one can tell me different. That is why you are so brainwashed into thinking the southern "rap" is real hip hop. Oh and tell Becky, Jen Jen, and Mildred I said whats up with a smile!! Don't forget to milk "dem" cows, and please stop wearing that plad IZOD shirt LOL.

"George Bush Killa till George Bush Kills Me"-Nas "was in the "Get Crunked Up" video, and thinks he knows everything about hip hop"- HILLIS 3000


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

LOLOLOLOLOL. Man y'all are some clowns. I'm telling you; all y'all got me rolling. What up Steph? They done dragged you into the beef? I'm surprised. And you taking on Best? Like Martian says, "You go girl." Big J, I saw how you quoted me, dogg. I WAS FEELIN' THAT. That's how you bring it! LOL. Hillis, I think you quoted me too; thanks for the shoutout. 3:16, what up? I gotta thank you too for the shout out, and you Steph. 3:16, I ain't heard that Nas thing yet, but I plan on getting it today, right after I take my final (Best Buy); sounds like you wasn't really feeling it. Did you get Jay's CD too. How was it? And I said it before, "Takeover," started nothing. I don't know who kicked it off, but it wasn't Takeover. Hollywood, you told me what? I didn't get what you were saying in that post. Now that I'm finish with the shout outs... Sometimes I'm just chillin' and something will hit me. For example, the CD "I Am.... The ellipsis (the 3 dots) does that mean I am ...Nastrdumas? Let me know. And when Nas says, Jay should apologize, ask Kiss. He meant that Jay had called Jada when they almost caught beef. Jada didn't say Jay-Z apologized, but he did say Jay called him and the 2 of them squashed it. It took me a sec to catch the meaning in that line; that's what I like about Nas. And I was listening to the Hard Knock CD the other day. That joint is still tight. I dare somebody to try to say BP is better. Listen to "If I should Die" (I think he copied that concept from Pac) and "Money Cash Hoes." No way is BP a better CD! It's a good CD, but a lot of peeps are acting like it's the best CD ever, not even close. Oh yeah, when I posted my favorite CD's I said Ice Cube but I forgot to say Death Certificate. Big J, I hardly ever watch college ball, but when I do I only root for G-Town. Al I, Zo, Motumbo, Pat E, need I say more, come on "I live out there, so don't go there" - B.I.G. I'ma be looking 4 your name. Holla

-- Qoolout (east997@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

ok this is my little input on everyones view of this so called "battle" and who is the BEST out there, everyone of you who currently listen to hip hop, are seriously caught on some foul "shiznit" first of all, being a succesful "Artist" and a succesfull rapper are 2 different things,....second of all...there is no best there is...because to everyone who listens to hip hop it's music that is so diverse that there are so many different types of it.....lyrically jay-z is gifted...but in his own style...it's what the people take in that creates a so called greatest rapper..lyricly (excuse my spelling as i am about to go to sleep) but lricly the most profound MC's are not at the top of the charts, but at the same time there are some profound ones there....NAS is lyrically there and you can't just loose something ILLMATIC set a stepping stone for many MC's and open doors to a lot of people but.just because your battling with another artist who has many billboard hit's doesn't mean they are "THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME" I think people are much too mislled to the fact that whatever is on the Radio and on TV is the best EVER.and it's jsut a waste of people's time to argue who's the best and who's not....because hint hint everyone is gonna have there own opinion.........ALSO, there are too many categories that many artist see themselves as the best...and many fans who do too.so there is no right or wrong answer towards who is the best becasue it's an OPINION.....and you can't prove someone's opinion as wrong becuase it is an opinion and not a problem to be solved....there is no right or wrong answers, it's not a math problem .......everyone get real and just sit back and enjoy what these artists bring to your ears...because your wasting your time arguing who's the best and who is not...peace

-- Theo (illmaticg@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

Wassup Back! first things first. Harlesdon, Newtown, Blackbird Leys, Moss-side, Northway, Brixton, St Paul's etc, etc, etc. Yous a dumbass whatever. Anyway, I could say a lot of shit about America but I wont, cos i aint tryin to allienate nobody. So i'ma jut sit back with my "cup'o'tea" in my comemorative Queen Elizabeth mug, "mate". "Cheers". Maybe I'll go to the "pub" for "a couple of pints", watch the "football" and go for a "ruby" what what. You seen Lock Stock and Two Smokin Barrells? Snatch? The Limey? The Long Good Friday? Gangster No. 1? huh... FUCK YOU! Thats that. CUNT!

Yo Steph, that Harrison Bush retard sent me an e-mail sayin, Nas is better that Jay-Z. Nothin more, nothin less. I'm just tryin to find out who he is, seein as this is the only place I put my address up on. HARRISON BUSH! WHERE YOU AT SON!

Best, that new name you got yourself suits you better. HAHA MUTHAFUCKA!

Y'all gonna be readin a long ass post in the next couple of days cos I'm going on holiday for christmas. Three weeks without me, can you cope? huh...

Hillis, I dont need to cuss "the dickridin, ass lickin, homo, fat- ass, cunt, muthafucka, Best" I just do it cos its funny. I like to see how she reacts to it.

WU-TANG! WU-TANG! One hot ass album you should go out and cop right now!


-- 3:16 (s0106495@glos.ac.uk), December 19, 2001.

It is always those FOREIGNERS that like to spit jokes, isn't that right Steve Austin?! Don't forget dun, if it wasn't for the U.S. your country would have been extinct......try way back in 1941....Does Adolph Hitler ring a bell LOL?! Where are you going for Christmas, the U.S. Now why is it that everytime I address Hillis, you seem to always be in the mix? I mean I can understand Big J and I arguing against Adrian 'cause we both rep the EAST, but damn you don't even live "DOWN THEAH" LMAO. Do you have some hatred towards me dun.....LOL They only way I can see you entering an arguement is to rep England, which would not be a wise move by you 'cause your country's potential leader is a QUEEN LOL. Also, England's hip hop......I'll let you speak on that dun. So in the mean time "mate" LEAVE ME ALONE!! STILLMATIC SOLD OUT EVERY WHERE IN NEW YORK!!


-- The Best (Nchekwube@hotmail.com), December 19, 2001.

Well I've listened 2 all of Stillmatic and...i love it but i don't beat out the Blueprint. ok well some songs are amazing and can't compare 2 any songs off the blueprint. One Mic and Destroy and Rebuild. those are my favs and most of the rest are really good too. but then theres Smokin', You're Da Man, The Flyest, Braveheart Party. now those songs bring down the album's value and shit. i skip some songs when i listen 2 it but with the Blueprint i don't skip none of it. but Stillmatic does deserve 4 1/2 or 5 mics. cuz the good songs are amazingg.

Q ure back! oh sorry its Best that'